The Real Truth about Rootbound and Transplanting

its just funny as i go back and read everything that was posted, and read whats being posted. i didnt know there were different degrees of rootboundness. the plant at the start of my thread is rootbound, if they have degrees it would be prolly 3rd degree rootbound or some shit. all i know is that if i didnt get that plant into a different bigger pot then the growth would most def. slow down and the health of the plant will slowly but surely decrease.

i started this thread as a tutorial on how to identify and (in my opinion) the correct way to transplant those (whatever degree they may be) rootbound plants. trying to get the message out to people that it doesnt matter to what degree your plants are rootbound, wether it be a tiny bit or a whole bunch... the fact is the roots arent getting the room they need to grow to their full potential <--- not a lot of people know this, or will even deny it all together.

im here to tell not only you hubert but everyone that depending on the size of your pots, how fast your plants genetics allow the roots to grow, that yes your plants can and will become rootbound in 10days. i JUST finished this experiment if youd read the start of the thread man. no that plant might not be as completely and utterly rootbound, but the growth of the plant is being inhibited and slowed becuase the roots have gotten to the point where they have no where else to go but back up and to circle around themselves. in order to keep my plant growing as healthy as possable it was (in my opinion) a perfect time to transplant into a bigger container.

be a douchebag and argue about that if you want man, im not trying to prove anyone wrong, from the start ive only been trying to tell people the truth because (like i said before) my last grow really went horrible because i listened to someone on this forum saying that rootbound plants dont exist.

like you said man, not a lot of people have the space, that means theres going to be a whole hell of a lot of people out there growing rootbound plants, plants showing signs of being rootbound which could easily be confused for different plant defiencies. example- you have a rootbound plant that is starting to get yellow from the bottom of the plant, you think its a nitrogen def. so you give it a nice shot of some jacks classic or some shit, which could then turn into all sorts of different problems resulting in you trying to heal certian problems about your plant that you initially created. you fuck it all up thinking the plant needs something else when it just needs more room! <---exactly what happened to me last grow.

ive only been trying to help from the start, people gotta be all fuckin retarted'n shit about it trying to prove points that are offshoots from the original point. why cant people just say ah thanks for the info Zaehet maybe ill try that experiment out sometime and see how it works for me. kids... /sigh

So would Air pots and Smart pots eliminate all this? cause I've had problems also with reg pots.

I don't see any drain holes in your milk jugs, you are the causing the problem (rootbound). Learn how to properly pot a plant.

it would help, but not eliminate it. right now im doing experiments to see what kinds of transplanting will help make use of the most soil.

1.tried gently breaking up the whole rootball with my hands, letting almost all soil fall off of the roots, spread the roots over the medium and poured soil on top.
2. tried cutting 1/8 inch on each side of the rootball, and cut an X on the bottom, spread it out a little and buried it.
3. tried just taking it out of the pot, not touching it at all, and setting it in the bigger one burying it.
4. got a big container and completely submerged the rooball into water, gently swished and swashed getting all of the soil off the roots, then spread roots gently out across the top of the soil and buried it.

just waiting to see what happens and how each react to each different transplant.

Slab said:

I don't see any drain holes in your milk jugs, you are the causing the problem (rootbound). Learn how to properly pot a plant.

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...........they are on the bottom of the jug.........

heres a couple pics to show you just how much i love to experiment and do different things with plants to learn as much as i possably can about how they grow. the plants in the pics are 3 1/2 months old, let it grow in a 16oz solo cup for 3months, it was as yellow as a lime, i then transplanted it useing an different tech. for each of the 4 i was experimenting on. this is what they look like two weeks after transplanting and trimming.

dont narrow your mind, do things differently each and every time and learn something new! =D

Hubert said:

And my point is that a plant doesn't get root bound in three weeks,

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Once a plant's root begin to circle the pot they are in the plant is under some stress and it only gets worse as the circling increases and the tangling/intertwining increases.

TheOrganic said:

So would Air pots and Smart pots eliminate all this? cause I've had problems also with reg pots.

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Any air root pruning pot design is better but it still will not let you grow in pots that are way undersized. They create healthier root structures but the roots still need space/room/area.

some sort of substrate at the bottom is recommended and some holes in the sides by the bottom will give you proper drainage. doing a alternating a layer of soil and then a layer of substrate is how you avoid root ball/ root bound problems.
with only holes on the bottom, they will be butted against the ground and not be very effective.

I do soil with air layering and tease the roots into a flood and drain system. best of both worlds. I feed the top ( 3 gal) of soil with guano teas and the roots gets only water.

agreed, having some holes in the sides would help.. but im not sure how differently the roots would grow as i have not yet experimented with this. it is a very good idea and ill try it, just too see how differently the roots grow. to see if it takes more/less or equal amount time for a plant to become rootbound with extra holes in the sides of the pot. i also wouldnt believe anything truely unless you try it out yourself first to see how it works for you.

heres another experiment i have going... why you ask??!?! because its fun to do different things and to see what they do in different situations! =D =D

i find experimenting and learning almost as rewarding as yielding. we owe it to the art, don't forget about the substrate in the bottom. if you are in a pinch for cash you can use styrafoam ( packing peanuts )or use old plastic bag and tie them in knots.

there are roots that only search for water and then those that feed off of the soil. when done properly the roots will grow thru the substrate and the holes in search of water.

p.s. cool mini colas in those party cups,

Hubert said:

What you call root bound, I'd probably call something else. I'm not going to say it doesn't happen on occasion, but there is almost no way any plant got root bound within a few weeks, cup or not. I've personally kept plants in 16oz cups for about eight months, no root trimming. I've flowered plants in cups, I've kept mothers for over a year in less than a gallon of soil.

So before you make it out to be cold hard fact, do some investigating. I have a strong suspicion that your plants weren't actually root bound, and that you just needed a scape goat.




Might want to edit that out, makes you sound hypocritical

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plants grown in a 16 oz cup will be root bound after 2-3 weeks. if you have ever grown a plant in a 16 oz cup next to a plant in a 5 gal container, you would see the difference. you are completly wrong about this. 3 weeks is the limit. unless you are purposefully trying to stunt growth. i guarantee you will

Hubert said:

I'm also not saying it wouldn't be nice to have bigger pots either, what I'm saying is that not everyone can use 7 gallon pots...so they need to keep their plants in smaller pots simple as that. Bigger is nice sure, but not everyone has that much space.

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Part of the problem is that what a pot size is claimed to be is never really what it is. There is no standardization.

Example:

A 10" pot that is 9" deep is called a "trade size 1000" - 2.5 gallons (by one manufacturer)....actual volume is 2.3 gallons. A "#1 Trade Gallon" is a "300" and is 6 3/4" x 7 1/4" and is called a gallon but its actual volume is .75 gallons. A 400 #1 at 7" x 7" is the closest to true gallon volume at .98 gallon capacity.

Someone can purchase a '3-gallon pot' and actually have in true size a 2 1/5 or a 2 3/4 gallon pot, leaving them to be growing in pots that are smaller than they believe them to be because they are called 3-gallon pots by the manufacturer. Normally the true size of a pot is smaller that what it is called.

Here are a few other examples from one manufacturer whose pots sizes tend to run more true, more accurate than most. In their case when the pot sizes row larger they are off by a greater amount. Some manufacturers pot sizes are off by fairly good amounts right from their smallest sizes.

2 gallon = 1.9 gallon, 3 Gallon = 2.9 gallon, 4 gallon = 3.9 gallon, 5 gallon = 4.7 gallon, 15 Gallon = 14.7 gallon.

Who recommends 'some sort of substrate on the bottom'? Got any kind of link?

That is simply not true and is entirely unnecessary if you have ANY sort of a decent mix. Have you ever seen any nursery operation do this? Adequate amounts of perlite or pumice in your mix provide all the drainage necessary.

This is just not correct information, passed on in forums like this from inexperienced growers to even less experienced growers.

Besides BrickTop, does anyone here garden, or grow anything else besides mj?

All this drama about something as basic as upcanning has me wondering.

Wet

Well i dont know who is right or wromg but ive never went over a gallon in pot size and most often they are of the less then a gallon size the ones i am running now are in 3/4 of a gallon pots and ive never had root bound that has stopped my plants from growing at the moment i have a 34" Royal haze that is in a 3/4 gallon pot that has 6 colas and still popping out more bud and pistals..all my plants are grown out to be over 24" in height and to me that rules out the foot per gallon theory..

Wetdog said:

Who recommends 'some sort of substrate on the bottom'? Got any kind of link?

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I don't know who recommends it. Who mentioned it? I do know that at least in the past many home gardeners, as in ornamental plants, would put a layer of gravel in the bottom of their pots, but going back as far in time as that was there weren't a lot of premix soils with good drainage and not all that many people made something good themselves so it was used to increase drainage.

That is simply not true and is entirely unnecessary if you have ANY sort of a decent mix. Have you ever seen any nursery operation do this? Adequate amounts of perlite or pumice in your mix provide all the drainage necessary.

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I am not saying it is common or even good but we once bought the entire inventory of another nursery that had been out of business for about 5 years and for some odd reason the owner had hung onto his inventory. Everything was root-bound so there was a great deal of work to be done but in many of the oldest stock he had put a layer of sand down in the bottom of his pots before adding his soil mixture.

We use partially composted pine bark chips ourselves rather than an actual soil or soil mix.

This is just not correct information, passed on in forums like this from inexperienced growers to even less experienced growers.

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As if that is anything new here. Much of what is claimed to be true here is at best only partially true.

Besides BrickTop, does anyone here garden, or grow anything else besides mj?

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Actually yes. If you want to see for yourself check out the forum called:
Gardening

at Marijuana Growing Gardening everything else but marijuana.

https://www.rollitup.org/gardening/

It's right above seed and strain reviews.

All this drama about something as basic as upcanning has me wondering.

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What drama? All the talk about how the root-bound condition does not exist or happens only very seldom and growing in small pots if totally cool and the gang for cannabis plants is like you previously said, "This is just not correct information, passed on in forums like this from inexperienced growers to even less experienced growers." It is all incorrect information said/written by people who might be able to grow decent plants but know little to nothing about plants and who then eagerly share their lack of knowledge and bad habits with people who do the same, and in doing so validate the mistakes they make and also pass on the lack of knowledge and bad habits to people who know even less.

It is no more dramatic than any of the massive amounts of other tidbits of misinformation that is shared and passed on here and neither is pointing out that it is wrong just as pointing out other misinformation is wrong.

Allegedly people come here to learn but when something incorrect is told/taught and someone corrects it the person who said it, along with many who do the same, seem to take the correction personally, like their knowledge and intelligence is being attacked, rather than learn. Just as they are teaching others misinformation, they were taught misinformation, but because they accepted it as being accurate they believe it and believe they have nothing to learn on the subject. Between believing they know it already and taking it personally they reject the truth and advise others to do the same.

It's not only here, it's much the same on other sites like this. Most growers hold beliefs and opinions that they consider to be facts and convincing them that what they believe is not factual is not often easy at all. We see it in thread after thread after thread and others on other similar sites see it in thread after thread after thread. It's normal operating procedure on sites like this. the rejecting of and denial of facts in favor of misconceptions and personal opinions.

Got all that right.

I was responding to a comment a page or 2 back about the substrate being necessary and recommended.

I did it once, years ago, and even then it wasn't for drainage, but weight. Had some nicely grown out Birdsnest ferns that would not stay upright (had a small nursery), so upcanned with gravel in the bottom. Still ended up doing UB's trick of partially burying the pots to keep them from falling over.

AFA a rootbound condition not existing. LOL, I wasn't even going to touch that or argue the point. Experience will teach that one.

I know about the gardening forum, was mainly asking if any of the posters making such strong statements actually had any experience growing anything besides a couple plants in a closet, or stacked up to the ceiling for that overhead goodness. LOL

I'll just refrain from commenting. LOL

Wet

ive tried that substrate in the bottom, back when i had shitty soil. it dried out the roots at the bottom and kills them. (Didnt kill the plant though)

mostly ive read of people putting something in the bottom to prevent soil leaching out, but i have never found any need for that.

and i grow many other things than mj.

sso said:

mostly ive read of people putting something in the bottom to prevent soil leaching out, but i have never found any need for that.

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My mother was a hanging basket freak .. they were everywhere, and she would always place one stone that was larger than each drain hole over/in front of the drain hole to keep soil from washing out when watered. Often she would pick one that was slightly pointy so it would fit into the drain hole and further seal it from losing soil while still allowing good drainage.

Mom had a real true green thumb. If she'd had been a cannabis grower she'd likely have us all beat.

this is what a Marijuana bonzi should look like.... pictures I found on the net

I thought it was common knowledge that any plant can get root bound. They invented the word for a reason

When I choose to put some clones into 12/12 I hold an identical copy of it... so when I am done with my veg and flowering, I can choose what strains are worthy to keep. So, the clone I veg/bloom gets put into a larger pot, the one I don't veg/bloom stays in a dixie cup.

When my plants are done blooming, their "mate" in the dixie is still only about 10" to 12" tall and is petite (small leaves etc) whereas my bloomers go to about three or four feet (depending on the strain). I actually count on the clones becoming root bound in the dixie as I don't have room to hold more large plants.

The drawback if I do decide to grow out a clone I have been holding for months in a dixie is.... it takes a bit of time after transplant for the plant to get going again.....but because marijuana is such a unique plant, they do start growing again and with a couple extra weeks added to veg for recovery... they are as big and healthy as any plant that had never been stunted.