The riddle of the gun; looking at both sides of the gun debate

cannabineer said:

At least it highlights, and sets beyond legislative erosion, the real reason for the Second.

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ya know, i will agree with you to some extent. i mean, they did mention something about it being necessary to the security of a "free" state.

but then again, i always hear you guys saying stuff about "ya think a criminal is gonna worry about the law?" when talking about gun restrictions.

so i ask you, do you think determined patriots are going to overthrow a corrupt government in a purely constitutional fashion? or will they go find some eastern bloc shithole selling off excess tanks?

you guys corner yourselves with every argument to this end.

NEW ALBANY, Ind. - Local law enforcement organized a program to purchase unwanted guns and get them off the streets, but the program attracted more attention than they expected.
The city had promised $200 in exchange for pistols, shotguns and rifles and $300 in exchange for assault-style weapons.
People started lining up well before the program was set to begin at noon.
Some people brought over a dozen guns to sell.
“You got to make something like this more inviting than for the person who wants to buy a gun that can’t actually own a gun, such as a convicted felon. If we can offer more than what you make on the street, then that’s our goal,” said program organizer Major Keith Whitlow.

Authorities had to change the rules and place a limit on the number of guns that would be accepted from each person.

The program was supposed to last eight hours but it ended after an hour and a half.



LOL

cannabineer said:

...the real reason for the Second.

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i am highly disappointed in this sentence fragment, especially from someone who is as acutely aware of the power of language like you are.

"the real reason"? really?

it's "a reason". not "the reason", and certainly not "the real reason".

there are many reasons for the second amendment, most of which are not out of date and most of which i agree with.

there is not a "the reason" for the second amendment.

for someone who is as semantically precise as you are, i am muy disappoint. muy disappoint.

but not as disappointed as i am in your limiting of my awesome comic sans flourishes, which i save for special times. like anal. or tequila.

fdd2blk said:

NEW ALBANY, Ind. - Local law enforcement organized a program to purchase unwanted guns and get them off the streets, but the program attracted more attention than they expected.
The city had promised $200 in exchange for pistols, shotguns and rifles and $300 in exchange for assault-style weapons.
People started lining up well before the program was set to begin at noon.
Some people brought over a dozen guns to sell.
“You got to make something like this more inviting than for the person who wants to buy a gun that can’t actually own a gun, such as a convicted felon. If we can offer more than what you make on the street, then that’s our goal,” said program organizer Major Keith Whitlow.

Authorities had to change the rules and place a limit on the number of guns that would be accepted from each person.

The program was supposed to last eight hours but it ended after an hour and a half.



LOL

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LOL indeed. talk about defeating your own purpose.

i am just surprised that gun buybacks were met with such enthusiasm. i thought the sentiment was that you had to pry them from my cold dead fingers, not simply offer me cold hard cash.

i heard on the news this evening that a local buy back program brought in 2000 guns, which they said was equal to one days worth of recent sales. so they basically closed the gun stores for one day.

Beefbisquit said:

When someone in an authoritative position tells you to do something, most people don't question it, they just do it.

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This is a proven fact tested 1000 times.

skunky33 said:

This is a proven fact tested 1000 times.

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that's why the individual mandate will work, despite having almost no teeth when you look at the enforcement mechanism.

fdd2blk said:

NEW ALBANY, Ind. - Local law enforcement organized a program to purchase unwanted guns and get them off the streets, but the program attracted more attention than they expected.
The city had promised $200 in exchange for pistols, shotguns and rifles and $300 in exchange for assault-style weapons.
People started lining up well before the program was set to begin at noon.
Some people brought over a dozen guns to sell.
“You got to make something like this more inviting than for the person who wants to buy a gun that can’t actually own a gun, such as a convicted felon. If we can offer more than what you make on the street, then that’s our goal,” said program organizer Major Keith Whitlow.

Authorities had to change the rules and place a limit on the number of guns that would be accepted from each person.

The program was supposed to last eight hours but it ended after an hour and a half.



LOL

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I know a gun collector who has 7 5 gallon buckets full of old rusty revolvers half probably don't work. He could make a killing..

UncleBuck said:

i am highly disappointed in this sentence fragment, especially from someone who is as acutely aware of the power of language like you are.

"the real reason"? really?

it's "a reason". not "the reason", and certainly not "the real reason".

there are many reasons for the second amendment, most of which are not out of date and most of which i agree with.

there is not a "the reason" for the second amendment.

for someone who is as semantically precise as you are, i am muy disappoint. muy disappoint.

but not as disappointed as i am in your limiting of my awesome comic sans flourishes, which i save for special times. like anal. or tequila.

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Point somewhat conceded. "The most important reason" or perhaps "the reason that matters" would have been more correct but lacked the punch. Tip o' the hat though for so neatly undercutting my sloganizing. My Bear style is powerful, but your Cock style is swift! cn

UncleBuck said:

LOL indeed. talk about defeating your own purpose.

i am just surprised that gun buybacks were met with such enthusiasm. i thought the sentiment was that you had to pry them from my cold dead fingers, not simply offer me cold hard cash.

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Gun buybacks are absolute boons to crims who have excess inventory of "liberated" heaters. I mean, the State your fence, what finer? cn

I wrote a paper on the subject of gun laws and violence in America in college. I'm pro second amendment. But people really decided to bash me because I didn't propagate lies. When you look at the statistics of gun violence in correlation with gun laws you'll find makes no difference, poverty is the main reason for gun violence and that's it. The book by John Lott Jr might have the worst statistical analysis of any "factual" book ever written, actually there is no analysis John Lott just decided to use correlations without sufficient research to support his political agenda. Even the graphs in the book are lies! He used DC to prove his point yet, the facts that 9 out of the top 10 states with the most gun violence have the most free gun laws, or that gun violence has been decreasing since before the pro gun legislation ever went into affect are not in his book. Lott was on some call-in-show and after 20 minutes of waiting, I basically told Lott and Hannity or whomever it was, that "for every statistic in the book I could name 10 that supported the opposite" and that "the statistics mentioned didn't take into account drug droughts, jobless rate, gang wars, etc.. Well, obviously they didn't take me up on my offer and I was hung up on after 2 sentences.

cannabineer said:

Point somewhat conceded. "The most important reason" or perhaps "the reason that matters" would have been more correct but lacked the punch. Tip o' the hat though for so neatly undercutting my sloganizing. My Bear style is powerful, but your Cock style is swift! cn

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i have made the bear somewhat concede a point on the internet, my life is now complete.

i would still disagree with "the most important reason", as i feel it is self defense, but i am much too sated by my internet victory.

score one for the cock.

skunky33 said:

I wrote a paper on the subject of gun laws and violence in America in college. I'm pro second amendment. But people really decided to bash me because I didn't propagate lies. When you look at the statistics of gun violence in correlation with gun laws you'll find makes no difference, poverty is the main reason for gun violence and that's it. The book by John Lott Jr might have the worst statistical analysis of any "factual" book ever written, actually there is no analysis John Lott just decided to use correlations without sufficient research to support his political agenda. Even the graphs in the book are lies! He used DC to prove his point yet, the facts that 9 out of the top 10 states with the most gun violence have the most free gun laws, or that gun violence has been decreasing since before the pro gun legislation ever went into affect are not in his book. Lott was on some call-in-show and after 20 minutes of waiting, I basically told Lott and Hannity or whomever it was, that "for every statistic in the book I could name 10 that supported the opposite" and that "the statistics mentioned didn't take into account drug droughts, jobless rate, gang wars, etc.. Well, obviously they didn't take me up on my offer and I was hung up on after 2 sentences.

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Links? cn .

UncleBuck said:

i have made the bear somewhat concede a point on the internet, my life is now complete.

i would still disagree with "the most important reason", as i feel it is self defense, but i am much too sated by my internet victory.

score one for the cock.

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I would say self-defense is an excellent reason to have a gun, if one is so inclined. However (as a reason) for the amendment, self-defense is secondary to having a counterweight to the power of central government. The amendment specified the right to keep&bear arms, not to more generically defend oneself. I doubt the framers could foresee that it would even get to the point where the right to defend one's person would be challenged.

And that is why I oppose "reasonable" gun laws that attempt to shift the focus onto self-defense, which is a "softer" target for legislative challenge than the right to maintain the instruments of revolution. cn

cannabineer said:

Links? cn .

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http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/pro-gun-states-lead-the-nation-in-per-capita-firearm-death-rates-57514947.html
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/01/11/20-deadliest-gun-states-from-mississippi-to-arizona.html

These are some links. There is also a .gov site that has the information.

Table data from Centers for Disease Control [PDF]

It's clear to see that gun politics plays little role in gun violence. But people will not question things that they would like to believe and they propagate these lies to fit their self indulged world view.

cannabineer said:

I would say self-defense is an excellent reason to have a gun, if one is so inclined. However (as a reason) for the amendment, self-defense is secondary to having a counterweight to the power of central government. The amendment specified the right to keep&bear arms, not to more generically defend oneself. I doubt the framers could foresee that it would even get to the point where the right to defend one's person would be challenged.

And that is why I oppose "reasonable" gun laws that attempt to shift the focus onto self-defense, which is a "softer" target for legislative challenge than the right to maintain the instruments of revolution. cn

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To say that our forefathers couldn't imagine a world which one needs a gun to defend oneself from another is wrong. The forefathers talked about scenarios of all kinds when debating constitutional rights. Debating "freedom of Religion" they did understand muslims, hindus, atheists and Jews could and would eventually move to America.

UncleBuck said:

i am highly disappointed in this sentence fragment, especially from someone who is as acutely aware of the power of language like you are.

"the real reason"? really?

it's "a reason". not "the reason", and certainly not "the real reason".

there are many reasons for the second amendment, most of which are not out of date and most of which i agree with.

there is not a "the reason" for the second amendment.

for someone who is as semantically precise as you are, i am muy disappoint. muy disappoint.

but not as disappointed as i am in your limiting of my awesome comic sans flourishes, which i save for special times. like anal. or tequila.

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All I read was butthurt

Damnit Miami, was just about to brag about Florida being the #1 gun state and still safe, ruined it for everyone.

NoDrama said:

Only if you are buying the gun from a private non licensed person, just like if you went and bought a gun from a guy across town, Exactly the same.

You cannot buy a gun from a dealer or a new gun at a gun show without a background check and all the paperwork.

There is no gun show "loophole."

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So, there's 'no' loophpole....

but...

You can go to a gun show, and buy a used firearms from anyone without any form of ID or background check.


That's not a loop hole?