This is what happens when politics go one sided

Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
please stop pretending to care about non-whites. you have made it very clear you are a white supremacist
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As a category I care about people who engage other human beings on an individual and voluntarily basis and I have problems with those who engage others on an involuntary basis, which also means their race is not as important to me as it appears to be to you.

So, the reason I don't like Obama is because he was the boss of a criminal organization which features a primary means based in involuntary human interactions...but you already know that. (ellipsis added just for you) .
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
As a category I care about people who engage other human beings on an individual and voluntarily basis and I have problems with those who engage others on an involuntary basis, which also means their race is not as important to me as it appears to be to you.

So, the reason I don't like Obama is because he was the boss of a criminal organization which features a primary means based in involuntary human interactions...but you already know that. (ellipsis added just for you) .
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please stop pretending to care about non-whites. you have made it very clear you are a white supremacist
 
PCXV

PCXV

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
So, you are okay with continuing to fund the racist "war on drugs" and droning brown people overseas so some schmuck like Donald Cheney can increase his wealth, all the while you get to pay for it?

Well, have fun with that.
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No, that's why I vote D.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
PCXV said:
No, that's why I vote D.
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So you oppose the drug war and empire building, yet willingly fund the drug war and Empire building and the funding of government schools by threats of or actual gun use against unwilling payors while decrying gun use at the same time?

 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
So you oppose the drug war and empire building, yet willingly fund the drug war and Empire building and the funding of government schools by threats of or actual gun use against unwilling payors while decrying gun use at the same time?

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you signed an agreement to pay property taxes absent all duress you freeloading mooch. you accepted the responsibility so stop whining you baby
 
PCXV

PCXV

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
So you oppose the drug war and empire building, yet willingly fund the drug war and Empire building and the funding of government schools by threats of or actual gun use against unwilling payors while decrying gun use at the same time?

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That isn't reality, just your twisted delusion. Enjoy!
 
Flowki

Flowki

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
Okay, your question probably deserves a better answer. I think people who discriminate based on race are doing something I wouldn't do, just as I think obese people are engaging in behaviors I wouldn't do etc.

That still doesn't give me any right to force people to use their OWN bodies or property to serve others or to force them to stop eating poorly, since I have no right to control their bodies or property, only THEY do.

Your argument claims an external authority is greater than a personal authority when it comes to the individuals body and property, which is the same argument prohibitionists, slavers and rapists use. I can't endorse that, why do you?
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I agree in some level of authority but @PCXV seems like one of those people from the 60's who still thinks government has his best interests at heart. I don't even know where to start with that. I can say, go watch a Vietnam war documentary. So many lies, so much needless innocent death and the whole thing was repeated again and is still on going in the middle east. Put aside your governments lack of selfless care for you.. lets assume they do. Does that justify what they are doing over seas?. Are you ok with your comfortable life given what it is costing the rest of the world at the hands of your government?. The history is there, most of the wars have been completely criminal. So many bad country's to ''righteously invade'' and help the civilians but they only invade the ones that are a tactical or financial gain/retention.

Authority over the entire course of history has shown to become corrupt with power and ALWAYS attacked and killed the weak for <self preservation reasons>. You only support authority because while you are as weak as any worldly civilian.. you are simply on the beneficial side. I say that with a pinch of salt, given the violent nature of American culture/police.
 
RetiredGuerilla

RetiredGuerilla

Well-Known Member
Endless wars is what fuels the military industrial complex. The longer they last the more money they make. The bases in Afghanistan are strategically placed to guard a pipeline that runs through that country to bring oil to port because Afghanistan is landlocked. Dick Cheney's company Haliburton built the pipeline. They tried to deal with the Taliban in the late 90's but they were tough in negotiations so they bombed "terrorist bases" with cruise missiles in Aug. 1998. Yeah how you like that Taliban? :finger: Then the CIA went with a false flag attack on 9-11. Three weeks later the US invaded Afghanistan in reality they probably spent over a year planning the invasion logistically. They installed Hamed Karzai (a former advisor to Unocal) as the new president of Afghanistan. Central Asian gas and oil is valued well into the trillions. If you look at a map you can see the military strategy from a geographical standpoint.
 
Flowki

Flowki

Well-Known Member
RetiredGuerilla said:
Endless wars is what fuels the military industrial complex. The longer they last the more money they make. The bases in Afghanistan are strategically placed to guard a pipeline that runs through that country to bring oil to port because Afghanistan is landlocked. Dick Cheney's company Haliburton built the pipeline. They tried to deal with the Taliban in the late 90's but they were tough in negotiations so they bombed "terrorist bases" with cruise missiles in Aug. 1998. Yeah how you like that Taliban? :finger: Then the CIA went with a false flag attack on 9-11. Three weeks later the US invaded Afghanistan in reality they probably spent over a year planning the invasion logistically. They installed Hamed Karzai (a former advisor to Unocal) as the new president of Afghanistan. Central Asian gas and oil is valued well into the trillions. If you look at a map you can see the military strategy from a geographical standpoint.
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I never knew what to think of 9-11. So much hiding of evidence it does make you wonder. If they were not involved then all the cover ups were to hide horrendous levels of incompetence. Or maybe they got wind of an attack and turned a blind eye knowing it would allow the following invasion. I know the government was capable of false flag attacks as released documents have shown, but against it's own people I don't know. It isn't that far fetched given that this is the same government who admitted to abducting it's own citizens in the 60's (that we know of...) and experimenting on them.

The twin collapse seemed plausible with planes hitting them but the third building collapse in the same manner was a big wtf. I had a misguided youth, never seen anything close to that from fire damage alone. When they removed all the steel work evidence you could jump to conclusions, but, I have worked in industry and people will buy cheaper materiel's and pocket the extra cash. If cheap materiel lead to the collapses bringing liability to those involved, they'd cover i up if they could. The exact same corner cutting lead to the grenfell tower inferno that killed so many but they didn't get away with it, doens't mean they are getting punished though.

I seen a video of cheap structural re-bar that was literally cracking in half when gently hit due to poor tensile strength. Don't even want to know how much of that kinda shit gets into buildings. High winds alone on a tall building is enough to fracture it.
 
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PCXV

PCXV

Well-Known Member
Flowki said:
I agree in some level of authority but @PCXV seems like one of those people from the 60's who still thinks government has his best interests at heart. I don't even know where to start with that. I can say, go watch a Vietnam war documentary. So many lies, so much needless innocent death and the whole thing was repeated again and is still on going in the middle east. Put aside your governments lack of selfless care for you.. lets assume they do. Does that justify what they are doing over seas?. Are you ok with your comfortable life given what it is costing the rest of the world at the hands of your government?. The history is there, most of the wars have been completely criminal. So many bad country's to ''righteously invade'' and help the civilians but they only invade the ones that are a tactical or financial gain/retention.

Authority over the entire course of history has shown to become corrupt with power and ALWAYS attacked and killed the weak for <self preservation reasons>. You only support authority because while you are as weak as any worldly civilian.. you are simply on the beneficial side. I say that with a pinch of salt, given the violent nature of American culture/police.
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Another straw man. My views on the government center on accountability. Government is a tool, it is what we make of it. It is the misuse of government that is the problem, not government itself. The government isn't some sovereign entity, it is accountable to the people and is comprised of the people. Our government has been corrupted time and again, our system has been rigged, but the solution isn't to tear it all down. We have the power to change it. If government fails, it is because we failed to perform our civic duty. To say I blindly trust the government is completely false.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
PCXV said:
Another straw man. My views on the government center on accountability. Government is a tool, it is what we make of it. It is the misuse of government that is the problem, not government itself. The government isn't some sovereign entity, it is accountable to the people and is comprised of the people. Our government has been corrupted time and again, our system has been rigged, but the solution isn't to tear it all down. We have the power to change it. If government fails, it is because we failed to perform our civic duty. To say I blindly trust the government is completely false.
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Yes, we agree, Government is a "tool". A tool to forcibly control people, herd people into false dichotomies, control and kill people.

I'm not opposed to your being a member of that cult. I am opposed to your cult forcing people to be a member of it.

My duty is to live my life and not force my wishes on others who aren't bothering me. That is every persons duty isn't it?
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Flowki said:
I agree in some level of authority but @PCXV seems like one of those people from the 60's who still thinks government has his best interests at heart. I don't even know where to start with that. I can say, go watch a Vietnam war documentary. So many lies, so much needless innocent death and the whole thing was repeated again and is still on going in the middle east. Put aside your governments lack of selfless care for you.. lets assume they do. Does that justify what they are doing over seas?. Are you ok with your comfortable life given what it is costing the rest of the world at the hands of your government?. The history is there, most of the wars have been completely criminal. So many bad country's to ''righteously invade'' and help the civilians but they only invade the ones that are a tactical or financial gain/retention.

Authority over the entire course of history has shown to become corrupt with power and ALWAYS attacked and killed the weak for <self preservation reasons>. You only support authority because while you are as weak as any worldly civilian.. you are simply on the beneficial side. I say that with a pinch of salt, given the violent nature of American culture/police.
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The burden of proving how people can be said to be equal and how authority can also exist is on you to prove.
They are two opposing concepts and believing in both at the same time, requires an inversion of logic, therefore one position is in error.

Where do people get "authority" from and how does it occur if all people are said to be equal ?

I support the idea that you are the authority over your own life, but not over others lives and that you have the right to defend yourself. Do you agree with that?
 
Flowki

Flowki

Well-Known Member
PCXV said:
Another straw man. My views on the government center on accountability. Government is a tool, it is what we make of it. It is the misuse of government that is the problem, not government itself. The government isn't some sovereign entity, it is accountable to the people and is comprised of the people. Our government has been corrupted time and again, our system has been rigged, but the solution isn't to tear it all down. We have the power to change it. If government fails, it is because we failed to perform our civic duty. To say I blindly trust the government is completely false.
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Give me one single instance in all humanity of a government that has not gradually took dictatorship control and it's people suffered. You talk about the people having power but that's untrue 99% of the time. We have seen civil war or land slide voting in many country's and things go back to economic/forceful dictatorship sooner or later. You can try to be positive and look to the future but the history by fact has it appearing bleak. If a horse has lost 99 races any logical man would bet on it losing it's 100th.

Government corruption into dictatorship followed by civil war of some sort is a constant. The things that change is the general standard of life for those on the lucky side while those who aren't have to face the ever more advancing war machine. It isn't just a physical war, the physiological means of control are everywhere. It is a losing battle, most civilians have to go and work to earn a living, they have so many distractions and manipulations. Governments and corps have people who's job is to literally find ways to control you. They spend much time doing it and are far more equipped to control you than you are to avoid it.

Reality of government > your idea of government.
 
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UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Flowki said:
Give me one single instance in all humanity of a government that has not gradually took dictatorship control and it's people suffered. You talk about the people having power but that's untrue 99% of the time. We have seen civil war or land slide voting in many country's and things go back to economic/forceful dictatorship sooner or later. You can try to be positive and look to the future but the history by fact has it appearing bleak. If a horse has lost 99 races any logical man would bet on it losing it's 100th.

Government corruption into dictatorship followed by civil war of some sort is a constant. The things that change is the general standard of life for those on the lucky side while those who don't have to face the ever more advancing war machine.

Reality of government > your idea of government.
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i see the problem, you have no idea what an actual dictatorship is
 
Flowki

Flowki

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
The burden of proving how people can be said to be equal and how authority can also exist is on you to prove.
They are two opposing concepts and believing in both at the same time, requires an inversion of logic, therefore one position is in error.

Where do people get "authority" from and how does it occur if all people are said to be equal ?

I support the idea that you are the authority over your own life, but not over others lives and that you have the right to defend yourself. Do you agree with that?
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It is inherent in human nature that 9 nations could live peacefully ruling themselves while that 10th nation will rise as an aggressor with free reign to enslave the other 9 nations. This isn't my opinion, it's historical fact. It's also backed up by all of nature, aside from our ability to inflict catastrophic out comes on the entire planet.

I believe we need some form of authority in a peaceful nation in order to protect that peaceful nation. Violence is not going away because free will by definition allows it to exist. I do believe as a species we are on a downward spiral to destruction and all that can be changed is the time scale.

Maybe one aggressive force ruling all nations would end all wars but as seen with cultures that have came close to that, other groups rise up to seize power or the dominating group rots from within until total collapse.

Expecting all people to rule their own lives is an ideal world but like the human body, if you remove all the white blood cells bad things have no check. Places still exist in this world where you can go and rule your own life. That does not exempt you from war or the wrath of bad men.

As a direct answer I guess. Aggression and peace define each other and neither will cease to exist although in varying amounts from place to place or time to time. Authority, historically is a big tool in allowing ''successful'' aggression and equally so it is required to ''defend'' your ideal way of life.

If the peaceful authority is lacking that nation is going to be oppressed, economically or physically. If the peaceful authority is stronger it will prevail but in time power corrupts. This is why I think our species is fucked. Our ability to use science is the biggest question for me. Would you say it's saved more than it's killed?.
 
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