Top Shelf Elite Seeds - San Francisco Sour Dough (dodgy phenotype warning).

Bigby

Well-Known Member
I've got a San Francisco Sour Dough (SFSD) from Top Shelf Elite seeds (Genetics: Phanton Cookies x Sour Gelato x Elite Chemdawg ) 25 days into flowering. There isn't any information on the strain anywhere on the internet that I can find so I want to put this out there.

I picked up the 5 pack half price from the seedbank I use (which should have been a warning I suppose). The phenotype I've got was very stretchy during the 4 weeks I vegged her for, despite plenty of light which was certainly close enough. I've got 8 other plants going and they all had normal node spacing - some variety, but all within the expected range. The nodal spacing for SFSD was at least four times greater than the next most stretchy.

When I switched them to flowering the SFSD showed pistils in good time, wasn't the first to show, but not the last either. The stretching increased even further, but a little bit of lst managed it. The phenotype I have was clearly very sensitive to nitrogen, evidenced by clawing leaves - but a flush and no extra feed in my 'biobizz all mix' soil sorted that out.

I found the strain/phenotype unusual and odd, but not actually problematic until the other plants started producing trichomes. They didn't all start at the same time, but they did all start. I've got a 'Gorilla girl' in there from sweet seeds that has the most trichomes, a 'Twins' from Cannarado genetics which is pretty well covered, and 3 'Cropolope' from cream of the crop seeds which are all covered in crystals. The phenotype I have of the SFSD on the other hand has no trichomes whatsoever. If you look at the buds through a microscop there is only what appears to be a light fur (if you zoom in on the pictures you can see it).

I've grown out about 200 plants from feminized seeds over the last ten years or so - and I've only ever seen this once before (on a terperalla phenotype - which wasn't even close to finished at 14 weeks, and had no visible trichomes, and was culled). Like I said, there isn't any information on the internet for this strain, which is why I want to put this out there by way of a warning. The pictures aren't the greatest - I've been having some problems with my camera. But they do demonstrate the problem - the complete lack of trichomes. I'll pop up a few pictures of the 'Twins' in a reply so you can see what another plant from exactly the same environment and conditions but with trichomes looks like.

I've got plenty of room in my tent this grow, so won't cull her (even though I'm tempted). So I will keep updating this thread in case trichomes appear. I'll get soe better pictures too in the next couple of days now I've sorted out the problems with my camera.
 

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Bigby

Well-Known Member
Some new pics, a week on. Still no visible trichomes on the SFSD. Very temperamental, doesn't like too much light or nitrogen - yet fan leaves go yellow if you don't give her nitrogen. She also smells weird - a bit like peanute butter, but not in a good way.
 

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Bigby

Well-Known Member
Weird, it almost looks like a revegged Dr Grinspoon or something.

Bummer too, the name sounded "promising".
It does eh! I've always thought about trying Dr Grinspoon. She can't be any more high maintenance than this one.

It is a bit of a shame, but I should have known better than to buy reduced seeds. Lesson learned!
 

PopAndSonGrows

Well-Known Member
Got more beans? --try again. If you get actual flower with anything remotely resembling sourdough, is worth a shot. I'm just going by the name, but it's a very specific name so hopefully they did that for a reason.
 

PopAndSonGrows

Well-Known Member
Agreed, it does. Really shouldn't be though, having been on 12/12 for 4.5 weeks (and all the other 6 plants in the tent are happily flowering and producing resin). I think it's the lack of trichomes which make it look as if it's revegging. Never seen one look like this before. Seriously dodgy breeding, or genetics, or both.
Nah it's more the smooth edged, long leaves, BUT they're not coming out of the top so could just be a weirdo.

IMO if you are absolutely certain of no light fuckery, then yeah you could be right, a dodgy cross, OR maybe you hit the double-recessive jackpot and weeded it out, PLZ try em again.
 

Wizzlebiz

Well-Known Member
Agreed, it does. Really shouldn't be though, having been on 12/12 for 4.5 weeks (and all the other 6 plants in the tent are happily flowering and producing resin). I think it's the lack of trichomes which make it look as if it's revegging. Never seen one look like this before. Seriously dodgy breeding, or genetics, or both.
The leaves that look like spinach are making me feel it's reveging.
 

Bigby

Well-Known Member
The leaves that look like spinach are making me feel it's reveging.
Can a plant reveg under 12/12? Surely it's impossible. I will consider switching them to 11 on 13 off, see what that does.

It isn't a problem with the environment though, because the other six are all behaving normally. It is 100% bad genetics, which is why I started this thread, to warn others to avoid.
 

Wizzlebiz

Well-Known Member
Can a plant reveg under 12/12? Surely it's impossible. I will consider switching them to 11 on 13 off, see what that does.

It isn't a problem with the environment though, because the other six are all behaving normally. It is 100% bad genetics, which is why I started this thread, to warn others to avoid.
It can reveg if there is light hitting just that plant. I'm willing to bet you have a light leak right were that plant is sitting.
 

Bigby

Well-Known Member
It can reveg if there is light hitting just that plant. I'm willing to bet you have a light leak right were that plant is sitting.

The room the tent is in is totally dark itself (no windows, door opens to a hallway with no windows). No light can get in the room, and the tent is light tight. There is no way that plant is getting more than 12 hours of light every 24. I did check my timers after your comment, and they're fully on 12/12.
 

Bigby

Well-Known Member
I've been growing with this exact setup for nearly five years now (not sure how many plants - about 80 I guess), and this is the first time I've seen a plant do this. I did have one in that time which didn't really produce trichomes (a Terperella from True Canna genetics - another half price seed pack, should have learned a lesson really).

I feel 99% certain that if I simply stick to reliable stable strains I won't experience this again. I'm certainly not going to try the other 4 seeds from this pack of San Francisco sour dough - they're getting fed to the birds.
 
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