FullDuplex
Well-Known Member
As i promised.............
Topping
- Thread starter FullDuplex
- Start date
South Texas
Well-Known Member
That's exactly right. I just pinch a bit out of the new growth, instead of cutting the whole thing out. Also, I would take off 2 of the fan leaves now, let that light into the new growth at the stem. A little molasses & seaweed would go your baby good. Next week, a couple more fan leaves.
FullDuplex
Well-Known Member
"A little molasses & seaweed" in an aeroponic system?
How ever i am awaiting my shipment of foxfarm trio
South Texas
Well-Known Member
I only do organic soil, but if there was anyway to add it would be because of what it does for the Plant. I didn't know Uncle Ben had been here. He is the actual expert on Topping.
FullDuplex
Well-Known Member
Well i did some clipping to remove some of the large light stealing fan leavs and they look rather nice..
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Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
And you just stunted your plants.
Those leaves are not "stealing light", they are receiving photons and producing the elements that produce simple/complex carbos, which are the building blocks of all plant tissue - roots, stems, more leaves, flowers, etc. The more you remove, the less healthy, vigorous, and productive your plant will be.
Learn the function of individual plant parts, you'll be a better grower if you do.
UB
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Yes, you can give a plant too much light. Anyone that says differently doesn't understand botany, plant functions. Again, all plants have light saturation points above which chlorophyll is destroyed and photosynthesis is compromised. Lumens mean nothing as does watts/s.f. means nothing. It's what the plant is actually receiving at the leaf that counts, as measured by a light meter that reads footcandles and registers to 10K f.c. PAR would be better, but such meters are VERY expensive.
Ever hear the forum mantra that your plants need all the light they can get during flowering? It's more forum baloney. Next time you read that from someone, ask them what happens in nature as the seasons change regarding light levels and total photons received during a typical day, 20* latitude or higher.
I'll leave you with a discussion on "leafing" and such from previous forums I've posted to.
As posted at CW->
>Is it a good idea to remove fan leaves that block light to the lower branches or will this take energy away from the flowering?
>
Uncle Ben:
Rottytown and Joey gave a solid explanation that is botanically based. Leaves are the lifeblood of the plant... with a caveat - they have to be functional and productive. If those leaves are healthy and green and receiving good decent light, "leave" 'em alone. If they are yellow or prone to fungus attack, they can be safely removed without detriment to the plant's health as they are contributing little if any value regarding food production - and this is The Key. If they are quite low on the plant and not receiving much light, then mother nature has a way of first taking the goodies from the leaf and it's petiole (removing stored food reserves/metabolites) and dropping the leaves anyway - moot point, eh?
>Even though I've tied the branches down horizontally, many branches are now shaded by large fan leaves.
>
Don't worry about shading branches, worry about shading leaves. Lower branches will always be shaded if your main light source is overhead. Add side lighting or use highly efficient side reflecting panels to alleviate this situation to a degree.
BTW, notice how large fan leaves are? Ever wondered why? It's because they are the most efficient food producing unit for the plant. It's your call (while understanding their function) regarding what to do with them at any given point in time.
>The lights have been on 12/12 for about 3 weeks and the plants are flowering if this helps.
>
I grow the most amount of foliage going into 12/12 as possible. While folks are doing the 15-30-15 thingie, I'm providing plenty of N to support foliage production. In general, lot's of foliage=lot's of flowers. Once sexed and the stretch is over, then you need to back off the N and increase the P and K with a blend like Peter's Blossom Booster, an excellent blend from an old pro who I hit on once in a while. Call Jack up, he's a great resource - http://www.jrpeters.com/moreblooms.html
Bottom line? It is your call to determine what is most important to the plant during flowering - large, efficient fan leaves or small, ineffective bud leaves. Choose carefully regarding targeting fan leaves for removal or tucking them away, as their exposure to quality light is The Key.
Good luck,
Uncle Ben
As posted at cann.com->
Thunderbunny:
In his book "marijuana botany" Robert Connell Clarke states that:
Leafing is one of the most misunderstood techniques of drug cannabis cultivation.
He states that there are 3 common beliefs:
1.) large shade leaves draw energy from the flowering plant and by removing the large fan leaves surplus energy will be available and larger floral clusters will be formed,
2.) Some feel that the inhibitors of flowering , synthesized in the fan leaves during the long noninductive days of summer, may be stored in the older leaves that were formed during the noninductive photoperiod. Possibly, if these inhibitor-laden leaves are removed, the plant will proceed to flower more quickly when the shorter days of fall trigger flowering
3.)Large fan leaves shade the inner portions of the plant, and small, atrophied, interior floral clusters may begin to develop if they receive more light.
Few, if any, of the theories behind leafing have any validity.
The large fan leaves have a definite function in the growth and development of cannabis. Large leaves serve as photosynthetic factories for the production of sugars and other necessary growth substances. They do create shade, but at the same time thay are collecting valuable solar energy and producing foods that will be used during the floral development of the plant. Premature removal of the fan leaves may cause stunting because the potential for photosynthesis is reduced.
Most cannabis plants begin to lose their larger leaves when they enter the flowering stage and this trend continues on until senescence (death of the plant) He also states that removing large amounts of fan leaves will also interfere with the metabolic balance of the plant. Leaf removal may also cause SEX REVERSAL resulting from a metabolic imbalance
He goes on to say that cannabis grows largest when provided with plentiful nutrients, sunlight, and water, and left alone to grow and mature naturally. It must be remembered that any alteration of the natural life cycle of cannabis will affect productivity.
This book has served me very well in my 12+ years of growing--I would have to side with RC on this one--those sunleaves are there for a reason--they dont grow just for show--leave them on there and let that plant grow naturally
Good Luck,
Thunderbunny
South Texas
Well-Known Member
Hey Uncle Ben... if your still here, Of course I agree with what leaves do... however, If I have 20 sets of fan leaves, & take out 5, I believe that the remaining 15 sets is enough to maintain their function, but also allows double the amount of fans leaves extracted to regrow, which also causes more branches, thus more buds. With a good healthy plant & root system, I have never seen adverse effect, but I dam sure see a lot more growth. Whatcha Think.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
If five is so good, why not 15?
Did your "re-growth", assuming you mean fan leaf replacement, come from the axils of the node sites?
South Texas
Well-Known Member
More than 5, stress, etc. Yes, the new double growth comes from the extracted node.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
No stress is involved, reduced photosynthesis is.
Sorry to be anal, but that suggests topping. Are you talking about removing the fan leaf petiole which is attached at the plant's nodes?
UB
South Texas
Well-Known Member
Lack of photo. does not cause stress to the plant? If not, if you take off every leaf, no stress? Yes, stress, a hand full of harm. Deer, bugs, grasshoppers does this naturally, it's like exercising the plant, making it grow more. Take of 1 set of fan leaves, 2 sets comes back to allow more photo, while allowing more light to the inner growth, for a week. Plus a new branch above the node,new growth. Later, I top that new branch (FIM), which doubles, etc.
iloveit
Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben I have 3 questions for you:
1) If I intend to cut clone from a flowering plant within how many weeks in 12/12 should I take cuttings?
2) If I intend to lollipop my plant which is already in the 1st day of 12/12 in which week should I cut off the lower 1/3 branches?
3) When lollipoping, after I have cut the lower 1/3 of my plant & it begins to grow back those lower branches should I let it be or cut it off?
I apologise if these are silly questions.
1) If I intend to cut clone from a flowering plant within how many weeks in 12/12 should I take cuttings?
2) If I intend to lollipop my plant which is already in the 1st day of 12/12 in which week should I cut off the lower 1/3 branches?
3) When lollipoping, after I have cut the lower 1/3 of my plant & it begins to grow back those lower branches should I let it be or cut it off?
I apologise if these are silly questions.
FullDuplex
Well-Known Member
Well aren't you pleasently blunt. I can understand if stuns them but I doubt stunt. Not that I doubt you I have just had different experiences as well as success in soil with this move. This is my first aero grow. Still learning
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
You're better off taking a cutting during veg. When a plant is in a flowering mode it focuses on carrying forth the species. Root production is put on the back burner. You want rooting action out of your cutting.
As long as the lower branches are healthy and green, you should never cut them off. See my avatar, and that plant was sandwiched in tight with a bunch of her sistas.
Not sure where you're going with this but I'll tell what I do to get what I call a secondary crop. Don't flush, treat your plant as normal until harvest. The day of, find a point on the plant where the colas transition from chunky to very airy, should be about 1/2 day or lower. Cut out those fat colas to cure and place the bottom half back under the lights to bulk those airy (late setting) budsites. You'd be surprised as to how much more production you can get. Side benefit is being able to reveg the plant too.
You lose the lower branches and leafsets and you lose alot of potential.
It's comparative. When a plant loses the very unit that sustains itself, it will be stunted COMPARED to a normally treated plant. Now, if by removing the leafsets you induce equal or more foliar output, it's a moot point.
Regarding being pleasantly blunt....I'm here to teach, not necessarily befriend anybody. If you want someone to tell you what they think you want to hear, I'm not your man.
Regards,
UB
iloveit
Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
You're welcome!THANKS SO MUCHUNCLE BEN!
FullDuplex
Well-Known Member
I really appreciate the info and the advice and i didnt mean to come off collar by the pleasently blunt statement. i like it you were honest about what i did you taught me something ill never do again
But so far it doesn't look like i did to much damage, i mean they took a few days off growing, but after last nights check they showed new growth....
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
No problem amigo. My point was referenced from a botanical approach. I have taken out leaves from a very bushy plant and found that it had an effect of producing twice the foliage, which turned out to be a good thing. I just want you to understand the function of a leaf.I really appreciate the info and the advice and i didnt mean to come off collar by the pleasently blunt statement. i like it you were honest about what i did you taught me something ill never do again
But so far it doesn't look like i did to much damage, i mean they took a few days off growing, but after last nights check they showed new growth....
IOW, don't worry about buds, only concern yourself with producing AND maintaining a healthy root system and lot's of foliage.
Good luck....
FullDuplex
Well-Known Member
So far my luck has been good and again guys thanks ofr all the advice. UB your words have helped and my plants are in great shape.
Tell me what you think
