veg+bloom constant mag deficiency

im4satori said:

quoting d1stort
"trying to tell the plant what it needs instead of the other way around"


do you believe your plants need all that calcium?
if no... then why would you want it?

ahhh I get it... you don't really know how much calcium your plants need or don't need, because you really don't even know how much calcium is in the products that your using
because without knowing how to use the damn calculator you've dogged you cant figure out what 10% calcium actually means... you just toss it inn the barrel per the direction or someone elses and hope you have all it needs

i could be making an assumption here but,
when you say
you hit them with some mag plus
are you foliar feeding it? so your foliar feeding on a regular basis to offset a magnesium def...
and you don't think maybe you shouldn't have too???

ii guess you might have to in order to get past all that calcium in the root zone lol

another thing... if you understand that mag plus is just Epsom salt... why are you buying the mag plus and not just using Epsom salt?

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No, you're incorrect I don't foliar feed it. Try again. You seem like the irrational type tbat needs hard documentation shoved in your face so again I'll refer you directly to VegBlooms directions which call for 4-5 GRAMS per gallon throughout the entire cycle. I still don't know why you keep referring to milliliters since this product is measured by weight. You're trying way too hard.

Edit : to answer your question as to why I use mag plus instead of the 10 lb bag of epsom salts sitting next to it, I bought a bottle of it almost 5 years ago and still have the same one because I require so little. Stop nitpicking everything I say and focus on the point

Double edit: I average 2.5 lbs per 600 watt DE fixture, I'm not here asking for help, I'm here offering advice so if you don't like it then maybe make your own thread with your plethora of copy and pasted information

for a decade people have been posting online

"raise the nutes until you see the tips curl slightly or the edges slightly burn and then back off slightly below that"

this is flawed

your plants are perfectly capable of being over fed, but not enough to produce curl or burn, but still over fed none the less

an EC that is too high likely based on imbalanced ratios in an attempt to offset lock is the wrong way to go

lets try an analogy

fertilizer is salt minerals

mineral water has trace minerals

which would you rather drink

mineral water or ocean water?

feeding your plants super high EC in hydro is like drinking ocean water

salt water or ocean water has a ton of mineral

d1stort said:

No, you're incorrect I don't foliar feed it. Try again.

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that all you got?

let me prove my point with my stupid calculator



here is 5grams per gallon of your stuff (yup,, just 5 grams)

now add your mag plus to that which is likely at least another 50ppm when you add in the sulfur

that's a rough total of active elemental 550ppm not counting your source water

here is a well balance GH 3part veg formula that doesn't require any calmag..just some Epsom salt (or your mag plus since you have it)

notice the active elemental ppm is only 396 vs your 550

N,P about the same plus or minus

only the GH formula has the correct ratio of potassium to calcium to magnesium at an EC of 0.9

maybe I need to do some more rea

d1stort said:

I don't personally want to add anything, I let the plants tell me what they need and add accordingly. I've never used any chart like the ones you've been posting, maybe you should do a little more research?

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so again let me ask you

did you plants tell you they need all that calcium

maybe you should do a little more research

d1stort said:

No, you're incorrect I don't foliar feed it. Try again. You seem like the irrational type tbat needs hard documentation shoved in your face so again I'll refer you directly to VegBlooms directions which call for 4-5 GRAMS per gallon throughout the entire cycle. I still don't know why you keep referring to milliliters since this product is measured by weight. You're trying way too hard.

Edit : to answer your question as to why I use mag plus instead of the 10 lb bag of epsom salts sitting next to it, I bought a bottle of it almost 5 years ago and still have the same one because I require so little. Stop nitpicking everything I say and focus on the point

Double edit: I average 2.5 lbs per 600 watt DE fixture, I'm not here asking for help, I'm here offering advice so if you don't like it then maybe make your own thread with your plethora of copy and pasted information

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no what you did was come on here and bash my method of identifying nutrient imbalances and your wrong lol

d1stort said:

No, you're incorrect I don't foliar feed it. Try again. You seem like the irrational type tbat needs hard documentation shoved in your face so again I'll refer you directly to VegBlooms directions which call for 4-5 GRAMS per gallon throughout the entire grow

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irrational?
i think im making good sense and backing it up with proof

your idea of rational is to say "the vegbloom directions say 4-5 grams" as some kind of proof and then argue to go as high as 8grams

and yes 4-5 grams would be a good amount since it puts the NPK ratios in place and you where growing in soil as a buffer or growing a plant that loves excessive amounts of calcium...like tomatoes for example
but if you feed 5 grams at 132 ppm calcium your likely going to see issues with magnesium and adding more only increases the EC

just look at the numbers

can you not see how much higher the sulfur and calcium is in your mix than in the GH 3 part formula

and your still adding more sulfur when you add your mag plus likely putting your sulfur at 80ppm or more depending on how much your using to try and offset your lockout

the truth is
theres already enough magnesium in the vegbloom stuff your using
the only reason why you don't know it is because of the calcium that's locking it out

You're still trying too hard dude, its just a weed! I'm doing better than ok already, I still don't need any advice lol I'm not sure why you're trying sooo hard. I've left my post for OP and he can take it or leave it, good luck to whatever it is you're trying to accomplish

d1stort said:

You're still trying too hard dude, its just a weed! I'm doing better than ok already, I still don't need any advice lol I'm not sure why you're trying sooo hard. I've left my post for OP and he can take it or leave it, good luck to whatever it is you're trying to accomplish

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first you say I need to do research and now you say im trying to hard

maybe if you tried a little harder youd give better advise

and btw... more is not always better

well kids, that was fun (not!).
I maintain what I said earlier, that until the problem is accurately diagnosed, no one really knows what the solution is. True, numbers don't lie and there could very well be a problem like what im4satori says, but unless we get confirmation from the OP, it's hard to tell if this thread has addressed the issue properly. Notice the OP hasn't come back yet. satori, I hope you're right, but if not then you end up with some egg on your face. btw, while I have your attention, can you explain how calcium locks out magnesium? How is it that cal and mg in the right ratio are successful, but otherwise there can be problems? Can you explain?

polishpollack said:

well kids, that was fun (not!).
I maintain what I said earlier, that until the problem is accurately diagnosed, no one really knows what the solution is. True, numbers don't lie and there could very well be a problem like what im4satori says, but unless we get confirmation from the OP, it's hard to tell if this thread has addressed the issue properly. Notice the OP hasn't come back yet. satori, I hope you're right, but if not then you end up with some egg on your face. btw, while I have your attention, can you explain how calcium locks out magnesium? How is it that cal and mg in the right ratio are successful, but otherwise there can be problems? Can you explain?

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im not sure I would be well versed enough to explain it as well as I could post some of the info from the literature ive read, I can speak to my experience based on the literature and its been on point

I will do it tomorrow...
I had meant to point out, and maybe someone can verify I(since the picture was so small)

I didn't see any zinc listed in that nutrient

zinc is an essential element

IF! theres no zinc in the nutrient RO water will only worsen the issue

again maybe someone else can peak at it and see if theres zinc???

negative zinc.

hey guys i appreciate everything heres the pics, some spots where i looks brighter green is actually yellowing. the last few pics are in flowering

d1stort said:

Don't post that you're going to let it go, and then not let it go... now that's just silly. I saw you come back and re-edit lmao. Set your ego aside for a second and realize that there's a million ways to grow a thousand different strains in hundreds of different environments, and that what works for you might not work for someone else and vice versa.
I didn't advise he add cal mag, I simply explained how I feed VegBloom without deficiencies. I suggested using Mag Plus for Mg problems since it is strictly magnesium sulfate aka epsom salts in cconcentrated form. I wouldnt suggest CalMag for an Mg problem since its most Cal and Nitrogen, as you pointed out, with a small portion of magnesium which is where most people's problem lies. If you're using RO water like I am, you're removing the Cal and Mag naturally in the water so you will always have to supplement that back in regardless of your product line. I've yet to find a product line that I didn't have to supplement at least a little CalMag at some point, but VegBlooms price and ease of use keeps me coming back.

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would having like 70ppm tap water make it so i need to add calmag? i do use vegbloom RO so i thought there was enough in there. i actually have regular calmag and calmag plus? i actually say that jungleboys episode and i remember them saying they use vegbloom i just didnt catch the calmag part

hey satori so what are your thoughts based on the pics now? these are my ak48 that i been giving a low 500 ppm (.7) because they get nute burn so easy and here what the leaves look like. btw the pics of the plant i showed in flower are ak48 as well

jronnn said:

would having like 70ppm tap water make it so i need to add calmag? i do use vegbloom RO so i thought there was enough in there. i actually have regular calmag and calmag plus? i actually say that jungleboys episode and i remember them saying they use vegbloom i just didnt catch the calmag part

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You're right at the threshold of base PPM that VegBloom wants you to start at, I personally have a base PPM of 0 from my RO machine so I supplement to a little less than 100 ppm before adding the base/bloom nutes. Based on the pictures you just posted I would say your problem is more likely with N than Ca.

You mentioned tap water, are you using aanything for dechlorinating the water before you're adding nutes? You mentioned VegBloom RO, I think this might be a different formula than what you may actually need for tap water. I run the VegBloom Dirty line and I know it says right on the front under the main label something like "for use with ANY type of water". I'll do some reading and get back to you on that

Edit : I just realized that RO/Soft are the same line

1/8 tsp per gallon RAW Nitrogen into the res with straight water would be my knee jerk reaction, but I'm still learning something every day so I'm curious to hear others opinions as well.

d1stort said:

You're right at the threshold of base PPM that VegBloom wants you to start at, I personally have a base PPM of 0 from my RO machine so I supplement to a little less than 100 ppm before adding the base/bloom nutes. Based on the pictures you just posted I would say your problem is more likely with N than Ca.

You mentioned tap water, are you using aanything for dechlorinating the water before you're adding nutes? You mentioned VegBloom RO, I think this might be a different formula than what you may actually need for tap water. I run the VegBloom Dirty line and I know it says right on the front under the main label something like "for use with ANY type of water". I'll do some reading and get back to you on that

Edit : I just realized that RO/Soft are the same line

1/8 tsp per gallon RAW Nitrogen into the res with straight water would be my knee jerk reaction, but I'm still learning something every day so I'm curious to hear others opinions as well.

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i have a h&g nitrogen bottle but i wonder if calmag plus would work i just dont want to do anything drastic in the middle of flower that could make things worse

I have to agree
that isn't magnesium def or at least not mag def alone
it looks like there could be s few things going on



I haven't had time to comb thru my literature as of yet

although everything I said about this vegbloom fertilizer still stands
if your feeding an EC of 1.2 and your N def then your fertilizer doesn't have enough N (compared to the other elements)
and its hard to believe your N def feeding veg nutes during bloom

because the bigger part of your 1.2 EC is from the sulfur and calcium

you could use a different fertilizer that isn't rocking the high calcium and sulfur, dose your reservoir with EC 1.2 and end up with roughly 120 ppm of N vs the 85ppm your currently getting an the same EC using that fert

there is a relationship between each element and the ratio of the element compared to its counter part is whats important

for example N and K have a relationship on bud density ... to much N over K will cause your buds not to harden as well
to much P will affect you iron and zinc uptake
to much iron will affect your zinc and P
to much K can affect your calcium and magnesium just as to much calcium can affect your K and magnesium

for each action there is another reaction... therefore the relation between the elements can often be more critical than the total ppm of an individual element
so the goal is to find the right balance between the elements

that's my point all together..
if your ph is in range and your EC is in range and your still getting an imbalance, the answer isn't always add more, the answer is to identify the imbalance

the fact that theres no zinc listed in the product is very concerning also
I cant say that using or not using ro water is the answer it depend on if your tap has zinc in it ... if it did then not using the ro water might add some zinc back likely not enough

city tap water has a chlorine ppm of less than 2ppm
since chloride is a trace element that is actually required or at least preferred in trace amounts that level of chlorine from your tap will do nothing except help keep your resevior clean

if you end up running beneficial bacteria you might consider the chlorine but personally I wouldn't

fertilizers come in many forms containing chloride for example
calcium chloride
potassium chloride

as long as your total chloride ppm is less then 20ppm theres almost no risk of an issue (unless using bennies)