Vote for Ron Paul-----Great idea

beardo said:

Would this include Ron Paul? or Max Keiser? Or Jessie Ventura? Or John Wheeler? Or JFK?

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Exactly the problem is who decides who wants to harm the country. IF your against the administration you want to harm the country. This is insanity. I can't believe the shit coming out of Washington. This tells me things are going to get alot worse with the economy.

Mellowman2112 said:

Exactly the problem is who decides who wants to harm the country. IF your against the administration you want to harm the country. This is insanity. I can't believe the shit coming out of Washington. This tells me things are going to get alot worse with the economy.

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[youtube]CALYV-J9ULU[/youtube][youtube]6oP1Ke70Mi8[/youtube]
Supporting Ron Paul, Owning Gold, Flying an American Flag? WTF !!!

beardo said:

[youtube]6_7W0U_BuVU[/youtube]

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Nobody there to even here his speech. Sickening what is going on with America and where is the Supreme court? Probably afraid to hear any of these crucial cases, afraid of being assassinated.

A foreign embassy worker is not going to let himself get recorded. Hello?

The Ruiner said:

For christs' sake, the dude worked in intelligence and he doesnt know better than to create a record of these threats? Total bullshit fail...

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Mellowman2112 said:

Nobody there to even here his speech. Sickening what is going on with America and where is the Supreme court? Probably afraid to hear any of these crucial cases, afraid of being assassinated.

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Have you taken a look at the people on the Supreme Court?
were in trouble

The Ruiner said:

For christs' sake, the dude worked in intelligence and he doesnt know better than to create a record of these threats? Total bullshit fail...

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They were warnings of a threat. The recordings would be hearsay and would not help him.

Ruiner you just said it yourself, the word edict like it's ok that we are ruled by edict. WTF?

and Beardo your right the current supreme court has been placed by both democratic and republican parties who are really the same party basically and anti constitutional. The way they use the commerce clause to pervert the constitution is sickening. you are right we are screwed.

The Ruiner said:

Beardo,

I think the purpose of the edict is that the threat of people being born in the country and actively working with terrorist organizations is real, it is truly a generational tradition. Why should we protect people that want to harm the country just because they are citizens? I just watched the whole video, and there is not one mention of an American citizen being assassinated...theres no substance to the premise of his speech. Our government isn't going to assassinate you, or anyone you know, unless they are actively trying to bring about physical harm to the United States and there is a mountain of evidence to prove it.

I totally support the policy, btw. I think it's a realistic approach to the threat that we face. From what I have learned about how the CIA operates, it would take a long time, and a lot of evidence for something like an outright assassination of an American citizen to take place...And I can assure you, that no matter how deeply you hate/distrust the government, they are never, not ever, going to start killing innocent American citizens out of sheer malice "just because they can..."

Dr. Paul maybe doing what he thinks is right, but I am more and more convinced that his reputation has relegated him to the corners of the intelligence world, where he can maybe catch glimpses of happenings, but not very much, and no one is filling him in because they dont feel like they can trust him. It's sad, but that's how politics works.

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So what makes you a terrorist? Buying guns? Stockpiling ammo? Hating the government? Who decides the hate? Didn't the government run 'if you smoke marijuana you are a terrorist' ads? Assassinations are what you do when you are incapable of taking things on face to face. At what point can America not deal with anything in our own country face to face? Why would we even need the option of that? Maybe you don't get the whole point of having a constitution that restricts the government form executing people without a trial.

Why should we protect people that want to harm the country just because they are citizens?

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If that aint a slipperly slope, then what is? Where is due process? Have you ever even looked at the constitution?

I totally support the policy, btw. I think it's a realistic approach to the threat that we face. From what I have learned about how the CIA operates, it would take a long time, and a lot of evidence for something like an outright assassination of an American citizen to take place...And I can assure you, that no matter how deeply you hate/distrust the government, they are never, not ever, going to start killing innocent American citizens out of sheer malice "just because they can..."

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Really? Waco and Ruby Ridge. Government sanctioned murders of civilians who weren't breaking the law. They did it because they could and they felt they were a threat. Also, what makes you think your government is any other government in history? In the 20th century the governments of the world killed between 150,000,000 and 250,000,000 innocent civilians. This isn't war fatalities, these are government planned murders and genocide. 150,000,000 is half the population of the United States. To believe that America is immune to this sort of thing is very unrealistic. Our government continues to kill people as of the moment I write this. Also, do you really and truly believe the CIA hasn't killed anyone already?

Mellowman2112 said:

Exactly the problem is who decides who wants to harm the country. IF your against the administration you want to harm the country. This is insanity. I can't believe the shit coming out of Washington. This tells me things are going to get alot worse with the economy.

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There are some new interesting conflicts in the banking industry I am reading so yes, there is a run on the bank except the struggle seems to be one major group trying to over take another.
another trend is the Republican Governors are going balls out to strip worker rights in all the States they can.

I noticed alot of people here saying the good doctor is Anti-Abortion.
This is true, however he has his own reasons for this that I can respect.
In 1963 he was working in a Church hospital back then you could go in and get a histerectomy(?), even when you were pregnant.
He entered an opperating room and in a bucket in the corner was a dieing premature baby.
Everyone in the room (except one young doctor Paul) ignored the baby until it died.
He watched this defenceless baby die in a bucket.
This left a mark on him.
Even so he only believes its not the federal governments job to fund aborting babies.
He is right, IMO.
He does believe that it is a STATE job and State Problem.
This is only proper and constitutional, IMO.
See Doctor Pauls Primary focus is on liberty.
You can't have liberty if you can't protect life.
So I would imagine the only thing that would really change with Abortion laws is the FedGov will not be paying for them. (Who Cares,IMO)
On rascism well who gets the most Abortions?
Inner City BLACK youth.
Litteraly millions of little black babies have been killed with your tax dollars.
Can you say eugenics? (nice try)

His ideas on the gold standard sound good to me.
Let the bankers print all the funny money they want.
But let us opt out with a commodities backed currency.
What are you afraid the FED can't stand a little competition?
They could surely outperform clunky stupid gold and silver coins. (As the Constitution purscribes)
Personally, I think there should be both it will keep the other honest.
Just have a one ounce silver coin denominated by weight currently silver is $44 an ounce. (and climbing due to the FED inflating)
When the FED does a good job gold and silver will stablize maybe even go down.
When the FED does something Stupid like inflating/printing (QE) Gold and silver will climb.
See keeps everyone honest and gives us all a golden parachute when the dollar colapses.

Like it or not we are headed to a monitary crisis.
The elite bankers are in the prossess of looting the country.
When they are done the Bankers will come at us with Bretton Woods II.
Never forget when the monitary system falls through, it was these same bankers that caused it.
They will offer up a new system for global currency (it will probably be partialy gold backed, to appease me/others)
But its another scam unless I can put physical silver and gold in my hand and trade it for goods and services I will not be happy.

Workers Rights?
Is that the right to life, liberty or Property?
Or is that a "Right" that was negotiated for via contract?
You have a right to not work or you have a right to accept a job.
You have a right to negotiate contracts.
You do not have a right to other peoples money.
(I will consede I think that all this union crap is political theater on both sides)

Ruiner, Stalin killed fifty million of his own citizens. People were terriffied and their neighbors were turning each other in and it got so that people were denouncing others before they denounce unto me. The Shit rule I will call it as it its the opposite of the golden rule. Ruiner if we let this keep sliding we could end up meeting the same fate. That is why I harp on getting back to the constitution. down to the last I and crossed t! Just know that your vote wont count if you are using an electronic voting machine. The banks will continue to pillage. So until we have reached rock bottom like Argentina did things wont change. People will just keep ignoring and pretending that all is hunkie dorie. when you are left with nothing then maybe you will say ya know those guys were right.

Carthoris said:

So what makes you a terrorist? Buying guns? Stockpiling ammo? Hating the government? Who decides the hate? Didn't the government run 'if you smoke marijuana you are a terrorist' ads? Assassinations are what you do when you are incapable of taking things on face to face. At what point can America not deal with anything in our own country face to face? Why would we even need the option of that? Maybe you don't get the whole point of having a constitution that restricts the government form executing people without a trial.

[/B]

If that aint a slipperly slope, then what is? Where is due process? Have you ever even looked at the constitution?



[/B]Really? Waco and Ruby Ridge. Government sanctioned murders of civilians who weren't breaking the law. They did it because they could and they felt they were a threat. Also, what makes you think your government is any other government in history? In the 20th century the governments of the world killed between 150,000,000 and 250,000,000 innocent civilians. This isn't war fatalities, these are government planned murders and genocide. 150,000,000 is half the population of the United States. To believe that America is immune to this sort of thing is very unrealistic. Our government continues to kill people as of the moment I write this. Also, do you really and truly believe the CIA hasn't killed anyone already?

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Mellowman2112 said:

Right that's the benefit in China the banks are aligned with the nation and do things to help the nation, when China prints money they dont immediately start paying interest to a third party private federal reserve like we do here. I am trying to do something and that is alert people to the screwjob we are taking so we can vote anyone who doesnt agree to the elimination of the federal Reserve out of office and take our country back. You enjoy a good standard of living and want it protected that is good and So do I. I want to protect it also. They are now doing to us what they did to Argentina. I watched the collapse of Argentina on youtube and the paralells are hella scary.
The two choices we have in our two party system are like going into a Mcdonalds and having the choice of a big mac and a big mac with no pickle, period. They are both owned by corporate lobbyists. Look at the video below and see the comparisons to what is going on here since around 2000. IF we had no Federal Reserve your income taxes would be at least ten percent less with the same benefits and services etc. Money could then actually be applied to our balance on the debt and when it was paid off income taxes could come down another ten or fifteen percent. We had no income tax before the Federal Reserve was created in 1913.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH6_i8zuffs

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As much as it seems bassackwards, the Fed is a huge part of WHY Americans enjoy the standard of living that they do. The Fed provides much more than what you give it credit for. Something as outlandish as "ending the fed' will cripple investor confidence in this country. The government as it is cannot be tasked with the job the Fed currently does, and because of the set up in place it actually allows MORE freedom on behalf of both parties. And have you even answered my question yet: Are you American? Seriously, answer it.

Mellowman2112 said:

Ruiner-
you stated-
If a student can accel in school, he/she is going to REGARDLESS. If the parents are committed to their childs education, their child will succeed. People alread express a strong distrust of the government, yet they trust it to educate their kids, with the mass majority of parents ABSENT in their childs' education experience

Many teaches are saying they dont have time to instruct the bright kids and challenge them and they get bored and actually become problematic. No child left behind means horsecollar the bright ones and hold them back so the dumb ones arent left behind. IF we are going to have remedial classes for the difficult learners we need also gifted classes for the gifted don't ya think? I agree the parents need to be involved in this totally.

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If bright students are becomming problematic, what will offering remedial classes change? There are remedial classes, and there are advanced classes, and a majority right in the middle...what's the problem?

beardo said:

Would this include Ron Paul? or Max Keiser? Or Jessie Ventura? Or John Wheeler? Or JFK?

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Three of those people are still living...JFK and Wheeler were targets for whatever reasons...Wheelers' death is a mystery from what I can tell...Maybe I should go to the Great Oracle Alex Jones for reliable information.

Mellowman2112 said:

What happened to a trial by jury of your peers a right guaranteed by the Constitution? Ruiner now I think you just take the opposite side for shits and giggles. You cant actually believe it's ok to assassinate American citizens do you? The wikileaks kid would be assassinated by now in your opinion I guess. Even the fucking mafia has a sit down before the wack somebody.

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If your peers are terrorist organizers...sure, bring them out of the wood-work so we can get their opinions... But, don't make mine for me...I think Manning fucked up, huge, and by military definition he is guilty of treason...that much is blatantly obvious. I am failing to see your reluctance to understand and accept military law...or his for that matter. Was it really worth risking your life to help out some douchebag? What has wikileaks solved? Or has it served the purpose of providing everyone with a day-time-drama-like expose on politics?

As my poli-sci professor said: "politics is like sausage, gruesome to watch being made" And that is all wikileaks has served to prove. No positive effect can be measured by wikileaks...no information they have leaked has helped the country or its people, in fact quite the opposite.

Mellowman2112 said:

A foreign embassy worker is not going to let himself get recorded. Hello?

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No shit? Damn I didn't even THINK about that! No, seriously...if Madsen KNEW that he was meeting with people (and he makes it clear it is MULTIPLE people) that were passing along that kind of information, he could have THOUGHT ahead and recorded them...What's his excuse? "I knew I should have but my recorder was out of batteries" Give me a break...Anyone in intelligence would have been able to secure at least ONE recorded threat. Total bullshit fail...

beardo said:

They were warnings of a threat. The recordings would be hearsay and would not help him.

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Depending on the source, of-fucking-course they would have been a help...Jesus christ, maybe he could actually sell his books after that, rather than hosting them online for free.

Carthoris said:

So what makes you a terrorist? Buying guns? Stockpiling ammo? Hating the government? Who decides the hate? Didn't the government run 'if you smoke marijuana you are a terrorist' ads? Assassinations are what you do when you are incapable of taking things on face to face. At what point can America not deal with anything in our own country face to face? Why would we even need the option of that? Maybe you don't get the whole point of having a constitution that restricts the government form executing people without a trial.

[/B]

If that aint a slipperly slope, then what is? Where is due process? Have you ever even looked at the constitution?

[/B]Really? Waco and Ruby Ridge. Government sanctioned murders of civilians who weren't breaking the law. They did it because they could and they felt they were a threat. Also, what makes you think your government is any other government in history? In the 20th century the governments of the world killed between 150,000,000 and 250,000,000 innocent civilians. This isn't war fatalities, these are government planned murders and genocide. 150,000,000 is half the population of the United States. To believe that America is immune to this sort of thing is very unrealistic. Our government continues to kill people as of the moment I write this. Also, do you really and truly believe the CIA hasn't killed anyone already?

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Dude...I love guns, I love weed...Do I freak the fuck out and think that every law passed pertaining to the terrorist threat is geared towards me? Absolutely not, because I am not a fucking terrorist. The only people that worry about this shit are people that are actually terrorists, or people that are way too paranoid and never try to even understand the motives.

And given your understanding of what assassinations are for, I am glad that you don't work in intelligence. They are a last resort option because of the shitstorm they create. I don't consider people that are actively pursuing terrorist plots elgible for a fair trial. And neither should any ordinary American citizen...Because these are the exact people that these sorts of new standards are set for...they are the people that actually are stripping YOUR FREEDOM away from you by using their American citizenship as a safe-haven.

Personally, I keep a copy of the Constitution in my truck...in fact if you are such a Patriot how come nobody here had any fucking clue what yesterday was?

As far as Waco & Ruby Ridge, that's the FBI...blame them for that bullshit.

To blame the US for ALL the deaths in the WORLD related to war is pointless...You are confusing the facts for the sake of our argument. Do I think the CIA has killed anyone...No...only because the CIA is a FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE SERVICE...not law enforcement, not a military...The only murder by anyone related to the CIA that I have seen was Richard Davies in Pakistan (who happened to be defending his own LIFE against TWO ARMED MEN)...

so you don't think the CIA kills people? how about 9/11? You think your not a terrorist also? Well you smoke weed and possibly grow it so you know that actually makes you a terrorist per homeland security, I am sure you do a lot of other things also, really why do you trust the government so much I will never understand - governments are the enemy of the people especially now that they are so deep into this control by the bankers. How many times do they need to thrust their throbbing 'u know what' into your 'you know what' before you wake up?

We will never be able to convince the ruiner, its earth shattering when one realizes what is really going on in this country. I had to go on antidepresants. Some people are not strong enough to face reality. It's that simple.

Dude...I love guns, I love weed...Do I freak the fuck out and think that every law passed pertaining to the terrorist threat is geared towards me? Absolutely not, because I am not a fucking terrorist. The only people that worry about this shit are people that are actually terrorists, or people that are way too paranoid and never try to even understand the motives.

And given your understanding of what assassinations are for, I am glad that you don't work in intelligence. They are a last resort option because of the shitstorm they create. I don't consider people that are actively pursuing terrorist plots elgible for a fair trial. And neither should any ordinary American citizen...Because these are the exact people that these sorts of new standards are set for...they are the people that actually are stripping YOUR FREEDOM away from you by using their American citizenship as a safe-haven.

Personally, I keep a copy of the Constitution in my truck...in fact if you are such a Patriot how come nobody here had any fucking clue what yesterday was?

As far as Waco & Ruby Ridge, that's the FBI...blame them for that bullshit.

To blame the US for ALL the deaths in the WORLD related to war is pointless...You are confusing the facts for the sake of our argument. Do I think the CIA has killed anyone...No...only because the CIA is a FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE SERVICE...not law enforcement, not a military...The only murder by anyone related to the CIA that I have seen was Richard Davies in Pakistan (who happened to be defending his own LIFE against TWO ARMED MEN)...

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Every road of death and genocide begins by the government getting power while the citizens lose it. Id rather deal with terrorists. How many terrorists have attacked the US in the last 100 years on american soil? Not very many. The government is subjugating 300,000,000 people under the guise of stopping terrorism. How many people have died in terrorist attacks on US soil? I fear the government more than I fear the terrorists. In fact, there is only a couple terrorist attacks I can think of and they were all in response to our government attacking people first. Gee - maybe if we weren't fucking with people it would save us lots of money and our freedom would be protected better. I understand the motives all too well.

Assassinations are what you do when you don't want to deal with the repercussions of an upfront attack. It is a lot like backstabbing. That doesn't apply to terrorists. No one in America is strong enough to deal with the force of even the police if there is evidence of them having a terrorist plot. Not to mention the fact that every state has a private army that could take out most small nations. At what point is our only option assassinating someone? Maybe in the middle of an enemy held country, but not in the US. If they are plotting a terrorist attack and the government has proof the courts will issue a noknock warrant to get them. Shooting them without a trial is not the American way.

Yesterday was the day the government murdered everyone in Waco, it was also the day of the Oklahoma city bombing. It was also the start of the revolutionary war.

It wasn't even all the FBI. President Clinton told them to do it and said good job afterwards. It isn't like they operate freely. They are part of the government. That is like saying the Nazi Army did all the bad things but the Nazi Government was ok.

So you are saying the CIA doesn't kill people? Are you retarded?

I'm not blaming the US for all the deaths in the world. I'm blaming governments. All of them. Government's are the leading cause of unnatural death. They murder hundreds of millions of people. How? Because people like you surrender power to them.

Carthoris said:

Every road of death and genocide begins by the government getting power while the citizens lose it. Id rather deal with terrorists. How many terrorists have attacked the US in the last 100 years on american soil? Not very many. The government is subjugating 300,000,000 people under the guise of stopping terrorism. How many people have died in terrorist attacks on US soil? I fear the government more than I fear the terrorists. In fact, there is only a couple terrorist attacks I can think of and they were all in response to our government attacking people first. Gee - maybe if we weren't fucking with people it would save us lots of money and our freedom would be protected better. I understand the motives all too well.

Assassinations are what you do when you don't want to deal with the repercussions of an upfront attack. It is a lot like backstabbing. That doesn't apply to terrorists. No one in America is strong enough to deal with the force of even the police if there is evidence of them having a terrorist plot. Not to mention the fact that every state has a private army that could take out most small nations. At what point is our only option assassinating someone? Maybe in the middle of an enemy held country, but not in the US. If they are plotting a terrorist attack and the government has proof the courts will issue a noknock warrant to get them. Shooting them without a trial is not the American way.

Yesterday was the day the government murdered everyone in Waco, it was also the day of the Oklahoma city bombing. It was also the start of the revolutionary war.

It wasn't even all the FBI. President Clinton told them to do it and said good job afterwards. It isn't like they operate freely. They are part of the government. That is like saying the Nazi Army did all the bad things but the Nazi Government was ok.

So you are saying the CIA doesn't kill people? Are you retarded?

I'm not blaming the US for all the deaths in the world. I'm blaming governments. All of them. Government's are the leading cause of unnatural death. They murder hundreds of millions of people. How? Because people like you surrender power to them.

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Where does this leave Tax payers and voters and workers and citizens as far as the burden of guilt or responcibility?

NoDrama said:

I think I can see where you are coming from on this; Its no fun letting another man fist your wife.

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i can only assume you are speaking from experience.

to each his own!

your tastes are a bit too kinky for my liking though.

I just lost my reply I spent like 25 minutes typing because of the session time-out here for RIU...I am not going to do it again...

Suffice to say Waco & Ruby Ridge are not solely the fault and responsibility of the government, there is no way to deny that.

It's only ever been discovered that the CIA has tried to kill foreign persons, not citizens. And my comments were in relation to Dr. Paul's floor speech.

I totally support the idea of assassination against those who wish to do the country harm, it's only reality. I would rather my government assassinate someone than have a terror attack, I think that would be far worse for EVERYBODY.

And Mellowman, I have been researching current events and foreign affairs for well over a decade...I know more than you would ever want to give me credit for. My viewpoint is that of someone who has realized how the world really works... not just America, but the entire world.