Vote NO on prop 19... (great read for anyone that will be voting in november in cali)

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Nice baseless supposition there. If 19 isn't voted in, nothing changes. But, good try. I was afraid we'd go a whole page without some truly empty fear-mongering rhetoric. That's like an episode of Springer without a fight... what would be the point.
a bit has changed in my conservative county already. First there were dispensaries, now there none. People have talked about southern california and the increasing restrictions there. Do you think that a new crop of conservative politicians that have a statewide mandate on marijuana will leave easy access to medical cards alone. I am speculating but so are you.
 

The Ruiner

Well-Known Member
Nice baseless supposition there. If 19 isn't voted in, nothing changes. But, good try. I was afraid we'd go a whole page without some truly empty fear-mongering rhetoric. That's like an episode of Springer without a fight... what would be the point.
The Jerry beads? Nevermind most of those chicks are nasty anyway.
 

The Ruiner

Well-Known Member
Will prop19 make existing medicinal growers adhere to the 5x5 growing space? Anyone who knows at all about growing outdoors will know that one decent size plant will easily exceed those dimensions, even for indoor growers thats just a tiny little area. That is my main concern, but the idea of these unspecified taxes that can be imposed by cities/counties could simply be outrageous in order to limit the people who could afford to pay. Already in the county Im from up north, Tehama county, passed a deal that people who owned over 160acres could grow the state limit of 99plants outdoors, but anyone who had 20acres or less could only grow 6 plants per property, not per liscense but property, just goes to show that growing isnt really the issue, it more they want certain(wealthier) people to be able to grow huge amounts, all this has occured after the kelly decision and they freaked thinking smaller growers were all going to go balls out with huge gardens, we are allowed to grow/possess any amount that we can prove is for personal medical use as the law stands now after the kelly decision. Im not one who has scoured through prop19 but just from what Ive heard there just too many unknown variables that could come back to screw people, and I understand the argument that regardless its a step in the right direction, while legalization is a great step, not when it includes giving unregulated power to individual counties/cities...maybe Im not understanding things correctly but what if the county wanted $1000-$2000 tax for an outdoor garden to be cultivated, I just dont know what all could happen. I STILL WANT TO KNOW IF PROP19 WILL AFFECT EXISTING MEDICAL PATIENTS AS FAR AS LIMITTING MY GROWING SPACE OR UN-JUSTIFIED TAXES?
No one can answer that definitively.... if that tells you anything.
 

TokinPodPilot

Well-Known Member
a bit has changed in my conservative county already. First there were dispensaries, now there none. People have talked about southern california and the increasing restrictions there. Do you think that a new crop of conservative politicians that have a statewide mandate on marijuana will leave easy access to medical cards alone. I am speculating but so are you.
And so you want to vote in legislation with a built in Ban-hammer. The difference is my speculation is back by almost 2 decades of fighting and lobbying and a clear understanding of what politicians, city councils and law enforcement agencies can and cannot get away with. But seriously, if you want to continue with the "sky-is-falling" theme, go right ahead. I'm sorry that the dispensaries have disappeared from your locality. Question is, what are you doing about it?
 
And so you want to vote in legislation with a built in Ban-hammer. The difference is my speculation is back by almost 2 decades of fighting and lobbying and a clear understanding of what politicians, city councils and law enforcement agencies can and cannot get away with. But seriously, if you want to continue with the "sky-is-falling" theme, go right ahead. I'm sorry that the dispensaries have disappeared from your locality. Question is, what are you doing about it?
I'm voting yes on 19 so that non medical users have some rights.
 

TokinPodPilot

Well-Known Member
I'm voting yes on 19 so that non medical users have some rights.
Whatever helps you sleep at night. Since you can't be buggered to understand the rights you already have, it's easy to see why you're so eager to toss them away. I imagine that if I lived in the uber narco-paranoid world you seem to... oh wait. I have from time to time. Difference being that we fought to get what we now have, whereas you just can't seem to be arsed or simply haven't the resolve for a fight.
 
And so you want to vote in legislation with a built in Ban-hammer. The difference is my speculation is back by almost 2 decades of fighting and lobbying and a clear understanding of what politicians, city councils and law enforcement agencies can and cannot get away with. But seriously, if you want to continue with the "sky-is-falling" theme, go right ahead. I'm sorry that the dispensaries have disappeared from your locality. Question is, what are you doing about it?
I'm sure local lobbying is important and i commend you for it. But it didn't work in oakland or much of southern california or more than a few counties throughout the state. Back in 1996 when 56% of californians voted for prop 215 everything changed.
 
Whatever helps you sleep at night. Since you can't be buggered to understand the rights you already have, it's easy to see why you're so eager to toss them away. I imagine that if I lived in the uber narco-paranoid world you seem to... oh wait. I have from time to time. Difference being that we fought to get what we now have, whereas you just can't seem to be arsed or simply haven't the resolve for a fight.
Right, if marijuana is legalized i toss my rights away. With your kind of logic you probably fight quite a bit.
 

BluffinCali

Well-Known Member
No one can answer that definitively.... if that tells you anything.
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Yeah thats kind of what I figured, obvioulsy I want full legalizatoin just as much as anyone, although Im already a medical patient I truely believe that marijuana is one of the safest drugs around, caffeine is much more addictive than thc and other cannabanoids. I just have a problem with a bill thats supposed to be about legalization and the taxes and regulations that would come with it, but like you said nobody can give a clear answer as to how it will affect the thousands of existing medicinal growers. I would love for the prop to apply to recreational use and growing and to have the medicinal side of things be completely seperate and basicly the same regulations we already have. It pains me to say but everyday I want to vote no more than I did the previous day and my vote has nothing to do with greed but rather the uncertainty of what the bill will allow our local governments the power to do. So any pro-prop19 people out there that would like to educate me on how it will affect current medical patients/growers please do so. Peace!
 

TokinPodPilot

Well-Known Member
I'm sure local lobbying is important and i commend you for it. But it didn't work in oakland or much of southern california or more than a few counties throughout the state. Back in 1996 when 56% of californians voted for prop 215 everything changed.
Way to fail at history. Far more has happened since Prop 215, including the passage of Prop 36 and even further legislation to reduce the severity of simple possession charges. Once again, your ignorance and lack of effort is still not a good reason for bad legislation that you hope will compensate for your inability to do anything for yourself. As someone who backed and worked on Prop. 215 and Prop. 36, has stood trial, served as witness and on juries regarding cannabis possession cases, I am fully aware of the implications of the various ambiguities in Prop. 19 and how they can and will most likely play out in the long term given the context of the political climate into which we are about to enter. But, at least you aren't Dan Kone. Capitulation in the face of adversity is far more acceptable than his profit-driven motives. Not in any way more respectable, but understandable.
 

TokinPodPilot

Well-Known Member
\
Yeah thats kind of what I figured, obvioulsy I want full legalizatoin just as much as anyone, although Im already a medical patient I truely believe that marijuana is one of the safest drugs around, caffeine is much more addictive than thc and other cannabanoids. I just have a problem with a bill thats supposed to be about legalization and the taxes and regulations that would come with it, but like you said nobody can give a clear answer as to how it will affect the thousands of existing medicinal growers. I would love for the prop to apply to recreational use and growing and to have the medicinal side of things be completely seperate and basicly the same regulations we already have. It pains me to say but everyday I want to vote no more than I did the previous day and my vote has nothing to do with greed but rather the uncertainty of what the bill will allow our local governments the power to do. So any pro-prop19 people out there that would like to educate me on how it will affect current medical patients/growers please do so. Peace!
Anyone who is Pro-19 is likely to tell you that there will be no effect on the medical cannabis industry. It's a key talking point for them since anything less would be unacceptable. Of course, for that to be true, two things would have to be true. Local government and law enforcement will not seek to misinterpret the ambiguous wording of the law and that they are likely to choose the option to tax and regulate a retail cannabis industry instead of outright banning it whatsoever while simultaneously respecting the rights of existing medical cannabis patients and growers.

After 18 years of lobbying and fighting local, state and federal authorities, I can honestly say that you have to be smoking some damn good shit if you think that's likely outcome of 19's passage.
 

Burger Boss

Well-Known Member
Nice baseless supposition there. If 19 isn't voted in, nothing changes. But, good try. I was afraid we'd go a whole page without some truly empty fear-mongering rhetoric. That's like an episode of Springer without a fight... what would be the point.
Funny you should bring up "baseless suppositions", because ALL of your rhetoric puts you on 73rd floor of an empty elevator shaft!
See ya at the polls........BB
 

TokinPodPilot

Well-Known Member
Funny you should bring up "baseless suppositions", because ALL of your rhetoric puts you on 73rd floor of an empty elevator shaft!
See ya at the polls........BB
Excellent... and now the forum equivalent of "angry poo-flinging monkey". I don't really see the threat in being at the top of an empty elevator shaft since only daft types would fall in. I do find it interesting that you find that to be threatening.
 
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Yeah thats kind of what I figured, obvioulsy I want full legalizatoin just as much as anyone, although Im already a medical patient I truely believe that marijuana is one of the safest drugs around, caffeine is much more addictive than thc and other cannabanoids. I just have a problem with a bill thats supposed to be about legalization and the taxes and regulations that would come with it, but like you said nobody can give a clear answer as to how it will affect the thousands of existing medicinal growers. I would love for the prop to apply to recreational use and growing and to have the medicinal side of things be completely seperate and basicly the same regulations we already have. It pains me to say but everyday I want to vote no more than I did the previous day and my vote has nothing to do with greed but rather the uncertainty of what the bill will allow our local governments the power to do. So any pro-prop19 people out there that would like to educate me on how it will affect current medical patients/growers please do so. Peace!
http://stash.norml.org/californias-prop-19-a-word-for-word-analysis
 
Way to fail at history. Far more has happened since Prop 215, including the passage of Prop 36 and even further legislation to reduce the severity of simple possession charges. Once again, your ignorance and lack of effort is still not a good reason for bad legislation that you hope will compensate for your inability to do anything for yourself. As someone who backed and worked on Prop. 215 and Prop. 36, has stood trial, served as witness and on juries regarding cannabis possession cases, I am fully aware of the implications of the various ambiguities in Prop. 19 and how they can and will most likely play out in the long term given the context of the political climate into which we are about to enter. But, at least you aren't Dan Kone. Capitulation in the face of adversity is far more acceptable than his profit-driven motives. Not in any way more respectable, but understandable.
Did you lobby your local politicians to get prop 36 passed or did we 61% of voters pass it?
 

TokinPodPilot

Well-Known Member
Did you lobby your local politicians to get prop 36 passed or did we 61% of voters pass it?
I helped to gather signatures to put it on the ballot and participated in the follow-up awareness campaigns to help bring about it's passage. I'm sorry if the political process is confusing to you, but at least I've done the foot work to help get things where they are. But keep up with the smear campaign.
 
I helped to gather signatures to put it on the ballot and participated in the follow-up awareness campaigns to help bring about it's passage. I'm sorry if the political process is confusing to you, but at least I've done the foot work to help get things where they are. But keep up with the smear campaign.
I have said that your work and the work of many others is commendable but without a statewide vote what really happens? The smearing seems to be coming from you.
 

Burger Boss

Well-Known Member
Excellent... and now the forum equivalent of "angry poo-flinging monkey". I don't really see the threat in being at the top of an empty elevator shaft since only daft types would fall in. I do find it interesting that you find that to be threatening.
Sorry Kiddo, your rhetoric ONLY puts you, as I said, on the 73rd floor, not the top, and there "ain't shit" under your feet,
(LOL, well, maybe a little "monkey poo"), and it's a loooooong way down! See ya at the polls....BB
 

TokinPodPilot

Well-Known Member
I have said that your work and the work of many others is commendable but without a statewide vote what really happens? The smearing seems to be coming from you.
Prop 215 and Prop 36 were both voter statewide voter initiatives. And from those plenty happened. "I commend your work, but it didn't do anything" is pretty insulting, frankly. The very fact that you get a misdemeanor instead of a felony conviction was massive progress. The progress of SB 1449 will be even better once passed into law. But, of course, according to your limited view nothing has happened.
 

TokinPodPilot

Well-Known Member
Sorry Kiddo, your rhetoric ONLY puts you, as I said, on the 73rd floor, not the top, and there "ain't shit" under your feet,
(LOL, well, maybe a little "monkey poo"), and it's a loooooong way down! See ya at the polls....BB
Really? If that's what you need to get by, lad... whatever. I personally don't feel the need to imagine death scenarios for anyone, but whatever makes you feel better about yourself. I don't need to wait for the polls. Either way, I get my pot and my clients are still safe from massive price gouging.
 
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