Watch the Stock Market tomorrow.

ginwilly said:

you need to realize those teabaggers were elected to do exactly what they are doing. The will of the constituents and all that. Why do you have such hate for people who want different things than you? You want to leave the country in worse financial shape for the next generation for the first time in 80 years. Just keep on borrowing money, deficits don't really mean anything as long as we get ours now.

The younger generation has taken to the streets in Greece is a result of past generations doing exactly what we are doing now. Over there, not only are they not going to get the same services (i.e. free shit) their parents received without paying for, they are going to have to pay the bill now. I think that's immoral.

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Those folks are having a hard time figuring out that this is the wrong time for the sort of austerity they are calling for. Any period other than the short back end of the largest fiscal disaster this country has ever seen would be fine but we can't currently have it both ways. You want another recession or do you want to cut spending? And if you do want to cut spending, why on earth do you want to do it on the backs of people who are already hit hardest by the last recession? I can't figure you folks out, I really can't.

There is time to fix the deficit and the debt but now is not that time. Don't let big numbers frighten you.

NLXSK1 said:

What did Obama compromise on?

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He put social security on the table, and he went up in revenue from 250k to 400k. Looks like a compromise from here.

ChesusRice said:

Actual the bulk of tea baggers misrepresented their postions

That is why so many of them lost this last round
and the rest are on the way out next election

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Let's hope so - "keep your government hands off my medicare"

NLXSK1 said:

What did Obama compromise on?

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He agreed to raise the threshold of tax hikes to a higher income level. He also put more cuts to entitlements on the table than his base wanted.

He ran on this, whipped Romneys ass with it, and you guys just dont seem to understand 1 glaring fact.
Elections have consequences, get over the ass whipping and get back to running the govt.

ink the world said:

Elections have consequences, get over the ass whipping and get back to running the govt.

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I wouldn't classify what our recent politicians have done as "running the govt.". More like, "barely avoiding collapse".

Our recent politicians and political candidates are jokes.

ginwilly said:

you need to realize those teabaggers were elected to do exactly what they are doing. The will of the constituents and all that. Why do you have such hate for people who want different things than you? You want to leave the country in worse financial shape for the next generation for the first time in 80 years. Just keep on borrowing money, deficits don't really mean anything as long as we get ours now.
l.

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I hate hypocrisy, and ignorance. Both are calling cards of the Teabaggers.

The far right is in no position to speak on the subjects of the economy and debt. Those idiots and their bullshit "trickle down" joke are why our economy is weak.

They talk about spending and debt control, but yet refuse to touch defense spending. They claim to be about personal freedom but want to legislate abortion, birth control and gay marriage bans.

"Keep the governments hands off my Medicare," Right?

ink the world said:

I hate hypocrisy, and ignorance. Both are calling cards of the Teabaggers.

The far right is in no position to speak on the subjects of the economy and debt. Those idiots and their bullshit "trickle down" joke are why our economy is weak.

They talk about spending and debt control, but yet refuse to touch defense spending. They claim to be about personal freedom but want to legislate abortion, birth control and gay marriage bans.

"Keep the governments hands off my Medicare," Right?

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I usually don't like to get into the name calling, but when somebody calls others stupid while being stupid themselves.....

Tell me ink, explain trickle down economics, then tell me how QE2,3 and soon to be 4 differ. Do you approve? What would be an example of a stimulus that was NOT trickle down? or was Bush's stimulus that put money directly into the pockets of the middle class taxpayers an example of trickle down too?

How was the recession of 08 worse than the early 80's? Trickle down was credited with saving us from that recession leading to the greatest growth period in our history. Knowing this is total bs, please explain what caused the recession of the early 80's and what REALLY fixed it.

Why is reducing spending to the astronomical levels of 2011 called austerity?

Drop some knowledge on me ink, because I'm one of those idiots who think spending, waste and abuse is out of control. Educate me instead of calling me names.

I didn't call you anything. I dont need a cite a longwinded economic dissertation to understand history.

If wealth truly trickled down the wage of the average American wouldnt have been stagnant for decades would it?
If wealth tricked down the gap between the rich and the poor would decrease not increase as it has.
If it trickled down the middle class would have expanded, it's been shrinking for quite some time.


Next time you're gonna hop on a high horse, get your facts straight. I never called you a damned thing, and trickle down is a farce. That's not opinion, it's a historical fact. Show me how it's worked. You can't because in every sense of "trickling down" its been an utter failure. Kinda like your baseless attack on me.

ink the world said:

I didn't call you anything. I dont need a cite a longwinded economic dissertation to understand history.

If wealth truly trickled down the wage of the average American wouldnt have been stagnant for decades would it?
If wealth tricked down the gap between the rich and the poor would decrease not increase as it has.
If it trickled down the middle class would have expanded, it's been shrinking for quite some time.


Next time you're gonna hop on a high horse, get your facts straight. I never called you a damned thing, and trickle down is a farce. That's not opinion, it's a historical fact. Show me how it's worked. You can't because in every sense of "trickling down" its been an utter failure. Kinda like your baseless attack on me.

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hey man, you are the one who gave the blanket statement about teabaggers. I may not call myself one, but when it comes to spending I'm on their side. If they are idiots for thinking a certain way and I agree with them then, I'm an idiot too. That's what blanket bigoted statements do. They include all of those who fall under your blanket. That's also what makes them bigoted (in case you didn't get that).

We've already established that trickle doesn't work. Yet you never explained why what Obama is doing is not trickle down. You also neglected to tell those of us who think Reagonomics improved the economy what the real truth is. Also, since Reagonomics is the REAL reason for our present economy, what caused the recession before Reagan? You couldn't give an example of a stimulus plan that worked, yet was NOT trickle down.

I'm no expert at all, that's why I ask questions from experts like you. If what I'm thinking is wrong, I need to change that. I will however need more than "nut uh, poopypants, could I said so, and some other people too". I was that way in grade school too, I'm open minded, but I need some data.

Edit because I forgot a question.

You mentioned the income/wealth disparity and stagnant growth of middle class income as a by product of trickle down. What role if any does NAFTA play in this?

ginwilly said:

I usually don't like to get into the name calling, but when somebody calls others stupid while being stupid themselves.....

Tell me ink, explain trickle down economics, then tell me how QE2,3 and soon to be 4 differ. Do you approve? What would be an example of a stimulus that was NOT trickle down? or was Bush's stimulus that put money directly into the pockets of the middle class taxpayers an example of trickle down too?

How was the recession of 08 worse than the early 80's? Trickle down was credited with saving us from that recession leading to the greatest growth period in our history. Knowing this is total bs, please explain what caused the recession of the early 80's and what REALLY fixed it.

Why is reducing spending to the astronomical levels of 2011 called austerity?

Drop some knowledge on me ink, because I'm one of those idiots who think spending, waste and abuse is out of control. Educate me instead of calling me names.

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As far as I know, Gin ... what "fixed" the recession in the early 80s was a sudden embrace of deficit spending at both the governmental and household levels. No fix, and it only worked once. cn

Gin,

What make them hypocrites is that the ones elected go on endlessly about spending yet will not touch defense spending. That makes them hypocrites.

They go on endlessly about personal freedom and government intrusion yet they try to limit the rights of gays, women and the right of some to vote.

They sold the voters a sham, people got duped into thinking they were voting for fiscally responsible people. They ended up voting for a huge defense budget loving repackaged Moral Majority.

Sorry if you take the idiot tag personally, it wasn't aimed at you. I will still refer to people that carry signs reading "keep the governments hands off my Medicare" as idiots, as well as birthers and people that believe Jesus had a pet dinosaur.

cannabineer said:

As far as I know, Gin ... what "fixed" the recession in the early 80s was a sudden embrace of deficit spending at both the governmental and household levels. No fix, and it only worked once. cn

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Yes, no doubt, this was the administration that taught us deficits don't matter. The ave. citizen saved 15% of their income back then where today it's 4%. That was 30 years ago, do we blame today's generation's lack of economic planning on Reagan? Reagan's crazy spending was on star wars and ending the cold war. We never even attempted to pay it back. Never have, never do, never will. This is very bi-partisan. If I blamed just the right or just the left I'd show ignorance and hypocrisy. Presently, there is a small group elected to do just this. This group is being blamed for, well, everything because they think we spend too much.

Are you old enough to remember how gold reacted to Reagan's star wars? It hit 800/oz in the early 80's. People weren't impressed with our dollar during that period either.

We also practiced protectionism which temporarily propped up our economy. The Japanese auto industry was kicking our ass in a bad way but we protected our industry by making it a stigma to own a foreign car. Our textile industry thrived, steel and other manufacturing also because we protected them. Walmart used to have that lie as a slogan "Made in America, by Americans, for Americans" and surpassed K-mart and Sears like they were going backwards (they were, their stuff wasn't completely made in the USA like Walmart). Today? We just buy the cheapest. Many many factors involved in our improved economy at that time, not just the new tax policies. What Reagan did with our tax code either helped or hurt, that's a given. If it hurt, how?

Apologies for my crankiness, it's just when I hear austerity! austerity!, we're doooooomed! I want to know why I should feel this way. If the democrats offered spending at Clinton levels (even adjusted for inflation) I would bet the farm that they could get tax rates at Clinton levels. Yet that would be called austerity? please...

ink the world said:

Gin,

What make them hypocrites is that the ones elected go on endlessly about spending yet will not touch defense spending. That makes them hypocrites.

They go on endlessly about personal freedom and government intrusion yet they try to limit the rights of gays, women and the right of some to vote.

They sold the voters a sham, people got duped into thinking they were voting for fiscally responsible people. They ended up voting for a huge defense budget loving repackaged Moral Majority.

Sorry if you take the idiot tag personally, it wasn't aimed at you. I will still refer to people that carry signs reading "keep the governments hands off my Medicare" as idiots, as well as birthers and people that believe Jesus had a pet dinosaur.

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You are spot on with defense spending and trampling on our rights. They've not only not repealed the Patriot act they added cell phones and car lojacks. They drone bombed American citizens without due process. They sent 40K troops into Afghanistan while Bin Laden was camped out in Pakistan. They still have billions budgeted in the defense for Iraq when we are not even there. The only defense cuts we've seen was in security at our Embassies (except France, Italy, Germany, and the other super duper dangerous places).

Do you think those people you describe make up the majority? Do all Obama voters think Obama is going to pay for our gas? There are idiots on both sides of the isle. Did you know that all black democrats think islands can tip over?

Willy,

I don't hate them for their fiscal conservatism. I hate them because it's fake, if it was real they would cut defense spending; not propose an increase of it.

I guess it's my problem really. I was a Republican, my father was a Republican politician. Things really changed for me when conservatism became social conservatism during the Regan era. Got no issue with level headed and even handed fiscal conservatism, just as long as it's not wrapped in the social stuff

Trust me willy I realize there are idiots on both sides. That's why I refuse to pick one. While I'm left of you I'm not a Democrat.

Liberals get angry at me because I support entitlement reform and spending cuts.
Conservatives get angry because I support gay marriage and gun law reform (not bans)


Being a moderate can be lonely, especially in the political environment we have currently.

ink the world said:

Willy,

I don't hate them for their fiscal conservatism. I hate them because it's fake, if it was real they would cut defense spending; not propose an increase of it.

I guess it's my problem really. I was a Republican, my father was a Republican politician. Things really changed for me when conservatism became social conservatism during the Regan era. Got no issue with level headed and even handed fiscal conservatism, just as long as it's not wrapped in the social stuff

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OK, sorry I got snippy because yes, the moral majority had their time of doing damage and are still desperately clinging to what influence they have left. We are on the same page there. It did seem to me that you complaining about social program cuts as austerity. Now that I see your last sentence bolded I know that can't be true.

The balance of power is shifting toward political correctness in today's climate which is just as hypocritical and dangerous. The Fort Hood massacre was an example of work place violence. The batman movie was act of terror by a gun crazy extremist. We need laws that discriminate to fight discrimination. We hang Mao ornaments on our "holiday" tree. Foot baths are in the bathrooms for prayer at U of Mich but the ten commandments are outlawed.

Ink, I'm also with you on the idiotic stance that taxes will not go up for anyone no matter what. If dems offered 3 to 1 cuts and those guys still say no I'll help you shoot them.