Water in Flint and other general problems in our political environ

Kurtz and Early were runnning the city (appt by Snyder to save every dollar they could) as Emergency Managers. Walling lost an election from pissed off voters. He took the most of the flak. Unwarranted at best (my sister went to high school woth him by the way..... Hes a righteous man) He wasnt calling ANY shots. The Emergency Managers were. Kurtz was talking about alternative (Flint River) sources of water and getting away from Detroit water pipe years ago. Its the farthest north it goes and Detroit kept changing its rates. Walling was all for staying witb Detroit until the Huron Pipe was completed (this year hopefully) but was shot down by Early. And they knew the Flint River corrosiveness would eat the biofilm of the pipes and cause probelms almost from the get go. The states enviro mental quality data was flawed but virginia tech samples and data was not.

ttystikk said:

Saving money at the risk of people's lives isn't just inept. It's criminal negligence and he needs to be arrested, charged and JAILED. That's the only way to send a clear message to other idiots just like him.

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That's how I feel about too but the first thing, get him out of office. He's a loose cannon. Not to mention that the shredders are running hot right now. He can still do a lot of damage. But its Michigan's electorate's issue to deal with.

We had a scandal in Oregon at the beginning of the 2015. Our governor resigned because he said that he'd lost the confidence of the legislature and wouldn't be able to run an effective government. It was over a lobbying scandal with his wife, chintzy amounts of money and nothing overt that the gov ever did. Not making excuses, he had to go, but compared to this scandal it pales in comparison.

since1991 said:

Kurtz and Early were runnning the city (appt by Snyder to save every dollar they could) as Emergency Managers. Walling lost an election from pissed off voters. He took the most of the flak. Unwarranted at best (my sister went to high school woth him by the way..... Hes a righteous man) He wasnt calling ANY shots. The Emergency Managers were. Kurtz was talking about alternative (Flint River) sources of water and getting away from Detroit water pipe years ago. Its the farthest north it goes and Detroit kept changing its rates. Walling was all for staying witb Detroit until the Huron Pipe was completed (this year hopefully) but was shot down by Early. And they knew the Flint River corrosiveness would eat the biofilm of the pipes and cause probelms almost from the get go. The states enviro mental quality data was flawed but virginia tech samples and data was not.

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Yep, before the city hooked up to Flint River water, a Flint City employee e-mailed the 2011 report to MDEQ that specified treating the water with phosphate. MDEQ approved the conversion in 2014. I've read that the cost of treating the water would be $100 a month. Probably need some equipment purchases too. So, yes, the conversion to Flint water was all about cost. Yet the conversion was completely bungled, not due to cost but due to ineptitude. I can't comment on whether or not the Flint river ever should have been used.

I have read some good things coming out of the MDEQ now that they have a new director. Things seem to be headed in the right direction. But that's from my seat across the country from you. Its pretty ugly right now and it hurts me to read about what happened.

It does not help that some backwards people are still trying to make this a right-left thing. The people in charge have to be held accountable. Otherwise the same damn inept government will continue.

Fogdog said:

my goodness, where to start. Your timeline begins Sept 2015. I started in 2011 and provided things that occurred up to the beginning of 2015. How in the world you got to where we presented the same data is unimaginable. Except maybe yours looks the same, which is exactly the point. These guys had information that Flint water was corrosive and needed treatment before hooking up the river to the city supply. They knew there were issues with the water by early 2014 and prevaricated throughout until the US DEQ stepped in and made it clear to Snyder that they were going to take the situation over. Then he acted.

I don't care if it was a Democrat or a Republican in office. The governor knew about issues with Flint water well before that memo in early 2015. He wasn't deaf. He didn't take any action until the end of 2015. He should be gone. Again not because he's a Republican but because he's an inept administrator.

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"My goodness" I only included the range I did because that is the first time the governor was made aware if the toxic levels of lead. He reacted quickly to that news.

I also asked if the timeline previous to what provided was desired. Nobody spoke up but it also shows the governor reacted quickly with actions and money all along.

You and the rest of the Salem Puritans are just trying to hang a witch of your own creation.

If there was evidence of malpractice it seems like it would have come out of the hundreds of emails detailing the drilling down to who was responsible. Sorry Kids, a governor has thousands of people working under him/her and cannot be responsible for the tens of thousands of decisions these people make.

bravedave said:

"My goodness" I only included the range I did because that is the first time the governor was made aware if the toxic levels of lead. He reacted quickly to that news.

I also asked if the timeline previous to what provided was desired. Nobody spoke up but it also shows the governor reacted quickly with actions and money all along.

You and the rest of the Salem Puritans are just trying to hang a witch of your own creation.

If there was evidence of malpractice it seems like it would have come out of the hundreds of emails detailing the drilling down to who was responsible. Sorry Kids, a governor has thousands of people working under him/her and cannot be responsible for the tens of thousands of decisions these people make.
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So you don't think that a governor is responsible for the decisions and actions of the men he picks to head his administration?

Dude you have no clue what your talking about. Again get your information together. Stop making this a political issue. The governor knew about lead i. The water way before you think he did. Thats all iam going to say. Iam done here.

ttystikk said:

I'm installing a water chiller with hot gas recovery, or what people might otherwise call a dual circuit heat pump. I plan to use my 'waste heat' for home heating, domestic hot water (on a separate circuit), dehumidification and even heating my garage, thawing circuit under my driveway, hot tub maintenance heat, etc, etc.

That's MY heat! I've already paid for it once, why throw it away?

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When your cooling your house in the summer the heat removed from the house can be used to preheat your DHW or your hot tub. In the summer just as with all ACs condensate on the evap coils is where your dehumidification come from. There not any waste heat in the winter.

Michigan and Massachusetts are the only states that the Governor does not have to realease thier emails under the Freedom of Information Act. Acoording to Virginia Tech data and samples given to the Governor and his posse....he knew well in advance about it. But jaded by a warped political ideaology he told his lackeys who he had running the show in Flint to proceed. Thats the truth. End of story.

since1991 said:

Michigan and Massachusetts are the only states that the Governor does not have to realease thier emails under the Freedom of Information Act. Acoording to Virginia Tech data and samples given to the Governor and his posse....he knew well in advance about it. But jaded by a warped political ideaology he told his lackeys who he had running the show in Flint to proceed. Thats the truth. End of story.

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No proof, just politically loaded bullshit and speculation.

I'll be back when you find some.

Oh and the Flint Mayor...DEMOCRAT and what do those dumbass flintonians do but elect another one.

since1991 said:

Dude you have no clue what your talking about. Again get your information together. Stop making this a political issue. The governor knew about lead i. The water way before you think he did. Thats all iam going to say. Iam done here.

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The only reason I said anything here was the political nature of the thread. Silly bunch.

bravedave said:

The only reason I said anything here was the political nature of the thread. Silly bunch.

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Do you actually believe that this is a partisan issue and has nothing to do with an inept administration?

Fogdog said:

Do you actually believe that this is a partisan issue and has nothing to do with an inept administration?

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Oh my, you are a thick one. No it shouldn't be so maybe you should go harangue those here who made it so...almost from the beginning.

Hey now wait just a minute....i know former Mayor Walling. Hes a damn good man.The only thing he ever wanted was to make this city a better one. He actually gives a shit.

You call it from what you hear or read. We here live it. Your on the outside looking in man. There are good people working hard for Flint. People from all over the country are coming together here to make this shit right again. On thsre own time and air fare and gas. Dems and Reps.

bravedave said:

Oh my, you are a thick one. No it shouldn't be so maybe you should go harangue those here who made it so...almost from the beginning.

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Which would you support, an inept government or a competent government?

Fogdog said:

Which would you support, an inept government or a competent government?

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Why, Fog, I'll take competent for all the money. I don't even care what they call themselves!

But what we have in Michigan is well past incompetence, straight to willful criminal negligence and needs to be addressed as such. Again, party affiliations have nothing to so with mangling your job. That the party condoned this behavior is itself shameful and should be dealt with, as its own issue.

Again, I give not even one damn whether they wear elephant or donkey pins on their lapels.

Well said
Stikk!!! I like that. ^^^^^

ttystikk said:

Why, Fog, I'll take competent for all the money. I don't even care what they call themselves!

But what we have in Michigan is well past incompetence, straight to willful criminal negligence and needs to be addressed as such. Again, party affiliations have nothing to so with mangling your job. That the party condoned this behavior is itself shameful and should be dealt with, as its own issue.

Again, I give not even one damn whether they wear elephant or donkey pins on their lapels.

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I'll take door number two any day. If I were a Michigan voter and a governor from the Democratic party made the same hash out of this situation that the current regime has, I'd have to vote red if that's what it took to get rid of them. I don't think @bravedave could, however. It seems that BD is capable of self delusion, somehow making this whole mess a trick by the party he so despises. Right now, he's trying to make it as if the governor is a victim of circumstance beyond his control. LOL

If Michigan wants clean water, they need to vote for Trump. Nobody loves clean water more than Trump does

bravedave said:

No proof, just politically loaded bullshit and speculation.

I'll be back when you find some.

Oh and the Flint Mayor...DEMOCRAT and what do those dumbass flintonians do but elect another one.

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only a fool would keep arguing this

got any republican success stories you are hanging you hat on?