Watering

UpInSmoke420$24 said:

See, if I hadn't of went through a run doing exactly what I explained with the no til coco, and end up with a pretty decent yield, and have 3 different plants all different strains test over 21 % THC with over 1.50 % terpenes level in all 3, then I would totally be agreeing saying that I am an idiot for trying it this way. But I did it that exact way last run, and did end up with exactly that. So I am just really confused on what makes it such a bad way to grow. See, everyone is saying it is wrong, but then no body follows through with any information or debate on why its wrong or what is wrong about it. Everyone always has an opinion on Mr Canucks way of growing, but the ones the always say he sucks and is doing it wrong never come up with any explanation of why its such a bad way to grow. I am open to any way of growing right now as I am learning and want to find what works best for me by sharing my experiences. And in my experience so far I ended up with really damn good weed doing it that way. Like I said, is it the most optimal way of growing, maybe not. But thats why I am here talking to people. I want to learn what I am doing wrong. What I can be doing better. Anybody have any suggestions on organic nutrient lines? I want to stay full organic if that helps

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Why is it such a bad way of growing?

Short answer? Look at your plants. They are small and showing all kinds of deficiencies. They are very small.

Look you can grow however way you want. You may have ended up with smokable weed from your last harvest but even those were showing deficiencies. Deficiencies means the plant is struggling. They aren't growing at an optimal level.

Coco is inert. You're trying to toss dry amendments in it and expect the plant to just process them. A microbiology is needed to break them down and it's just not there.

If you want to grow fully organic use soil, continuing to try to do it in coco is just a recipe for a headache. I'm not sure why you are so deadset on coco and organics but it's generally not a good mix.

Edit: You shouldn't be teaching anyone with what you are doing.

xtsho said:

Yeah his grows are epic. To people that don't know any better.

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I love it when this pic pops up. It always makes my day lol

twentyeight.threefive said:

Why is it such a bad way of growing?

Short answer? Look at your plants. They are small and showing all kinds of deficiencies. They are very small.

Look you can grow however way you want. You may have ended up with smokable weed from your last harvest but even those were showing deficiencies. Deficiencies means the plant is struggling. They aren't growing at an optimal level.

Coco is inert. You're trying to toss dry amendments in it and expect the plant to just process them. A microbiology is needed to break them down and it's just not there.

If you want to grow fully organic use soil, continuing to try to do it in coco is just a recipe for a headache. I'm not sure why you are so deadset on coco and organics but it's generally not a good mix.

Edit: You shouldn't be teaching anyone with what you are doing.

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I don't get why anybody wants to use coco, with dry amendments and ewc. Why not just use soil then? Coco is better when running it hydro style.

lol I am not dead set on using coco with organics. I am also using soil too. Im doing half the plants in one and half in the other. I am experimenting different ways to grow and trying to find what best works for me. Again, this is why I am here debating. I am open to using anything and want to learn more ways to do it and then test them out. I am not telling anybody to do it this way. I am just stating a fact that I ended up with 250 grams off of a 200 watt light in veg and 300 watt light in flower of some fire ass bud doing exactly what I just said. So it is doable. But I agree it is probably not the best way to grow in coco and again is why I am here trying to learn. As teaching...I am not teaching right now at all by any means. I only state things I absolutely do know. Like that 77 degrees in not too low of a daytime temp at all. I know some of the best weed that was grown in now higher than 77 degrees. And I do know that coco isn't the best source for micro life. Because there is none. That is why you add the worm castings and shit to it. I agree that peat moss and everything in a living soil might be able to sustain life better and everything, but there is absolutely no reason why coco can't hold the biological life you need if you are adding it to the medium. I use recharge weekly too that also adds the microbial life too. So like I said, I meant this post to learn and see what other people do and to debate. Not for people to say your way sucks and isn't a way of growing. Not once did I ever say to anybody that there way of growing is wrong and you can't do that. So if it is so wrong then I want you to tell me why it is so wrong and tell me how I could do better. What I could use better. How I could better amend or feed.

UpInSmoke420$24 said:

lol I am not dead set on using coco with organics. I am also using soil too. Im doing half the plants in one and half in the other. I am experimenting different ways to grow and trying to find what best works for me. Again, this is why I am here debating. I am open to using anything and want to learn more ways to do it and then test them out. I am not telling anybody to do it this way. I am just stating a fact that I ended up with 250 grams off of a 200 watt light in veg and 300 watt light in flower of some fire ass bud doing exactly what I just said. So it is doable. But I agree it is probably not the best way to grow in coco and again is why I am here trying to learn. As teaching...I am not teaching right now at all by any means. I only state things I absolutely do know. Like that 77 degrees in not too low of a daytime temp at all. I know some of the best weed that was grown in now higher than 77 degrees. And I do know that coco isn't the best source for micro life. Because there is none. That is why you add the worm castings and shit to it. I agree that peat moss and everything in a living soil might be able to sustain life better and everything, but there is absolutely no reason why coco can't hold the biological life you need if you are adding it to the medium. I use recharge weekly too that also adds the microbial life too. So like I said, I meant this post to learn and see what other people do and to debate. Not for people to say your way sucks and isn't a way of growing. Not once did I ever say to anybody that there way of growing is wrong and you can't do that. So if it is so wrong then I want you to tell me why it is so wrong and tell me how I could do better. What I could use better. How I could better amend or feed.

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77f Degrees...is that ambient temperature or leaf surface temperature? Most of us under LEDs are running ambient temps up in the low 80's to offset the lower levels of IR energy that LEDs are providing, given leaf temp at 77F is probably closer to 75 or 74f.

Coco isn't bad, and can be used in a living soil environment. Just not as successful as peat moss will be. That said, I started with coco. Did Subcool's supersoil with coco exclusively back in the day, but I had to top dress once I hit week 3-4 of flower, defeating the purpose of the "supersoil". It still worked, just took extra work and inputs than were necessary. Its not bad, it just isn't optimal.

Peat moss has double the CEC that coco does, this is why peat is the "standard". They also have different pH ranges, which needs to be considered when replacing peat moss with coco or you risk lockout.

The biggest reason that people have success with coco over peat moss? Watering. Coco is extremely forgiving, and does not have the same hydrophobic properties that peat moss does. Most people screw up on watering, and the bulk of plant issues are often related to watering practices. So, if someone is having "better results" with coco over peat moss; that isn't because coco is better/comparable to peat moss, it means one's watering practices needs troubleshooting, and coco is a band-aid solution to the real problem.

Sure, peat moss has 2x CEC that coco does. But that extra CEC is useless if the medium is not being watered properly, and with peat moss, it only takes one fuck up to have dry spots in your pots.

Since coco does not have the same CEC as peat moss does, this means that many of your dry amendments will not bond with the substrate as much. Plants feed in organics one of two ways; either from the amendments breaking down and being made readily available, or those same amendments (the excess not absorbed by the roots) bonding to the substrate (peat or coco) to be saved for a later time as needed.

Since coco has 1/2 the CEC as peat does, this means that your substrate will only absorb half of what it could from the amendments themselves. You should be top dressing more to compensate for this fact.

Look on the back of your dry amendment box/bag, notice how it says "water soluble" and "water insoluble" next to some of the NPK values?

If its water soluble, then every time you have runoff, the water soluble part of the amendments are now leaking out of your pots. This means you will need to top dress more often to compensate for the nutrients lost in runoff. Combine this with the fact that coco has 1/2 the CEC that peat does, and the result is that one needs to top dress every 1-2 weeks in a coco grow, where as that same grow in peat moss would only need to be top dressed every 2-4 weeks.

This is why not watering to runoff in living soil is emphasized. Its not a bad thing, just isn't optimal, and results in more top dressing/money being spent than needed. Even with this issue, its entirely possible to have success.


OP, how often are you top dressing with your dry amendments? Since you're in coco, and coco doesn't "absorb" as much of those nutrients as peat will, you will need to double your amendment applications. Your deficiency issues don't look like watering problems to me, your plants don't look overwatered, they just look hungry and deficient. Top dressing more frequently should fix your issues right up.

In your shoes, I'd be cutting off any leaves showing signs of deficiencies, and mulching with them. Then, cover the leaves with your amendments, and water as needed. You should see improvements within a week. Your plants are definitely not optimal, but certainly not abysmal either. You're still in veg, you can correct issues easily at this point.

Regards.

UpInSmoke420$24 said:

yes it was my first indoor photoperiod grow. I have grown outside and a few auto flowers indoor, but it was the first photo run indoors. I am learning and teaching. I teach what I do now and realized I don't know everything, that is why I am here debating. I want to learn, but also teach people the things I do know for a fact. And tell me, how do you know which ones are in coco? Yes I can legally buy cannabis and I am just challenging what people are saying. If you tell me its wrong, then tell me why it is wrong and what you do better. Thats the thing, I want people to challenge my way so I can get better

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We don't need to tell you why doing it is wrong. Your plants are telling you. Listen to the plant.

UpInSmoke420$24 said:

lol I am not dead set on using coco with organics. I am also using soil too. Im doing half the plants in one and half in the other. I am experimenting different ways to grow and trying to find what best works for me. Again, this is why I am here debating. I am open to using anything and want to learn more ways to do it and then test them out. I am not telling anybody to do it this way. I am just stating a fact that I ended up with 250 grams off of a 200 watt light in veg and 300 watt light in flower of some fire ass bud doing exactly what I just said. So it is doable. But I agree it is probably not the best way to grow in coco and again is why I am here trying to learn. As teaching...I am not teaching right now at all by any means. I only state things I absolutely do know. Like that 77 degrees in not too low of a daytime temp at all. I know some of the best weed that was grown in now higher than 77 degrees. And I do know that coco isn't the best source for micro life. Because there is none. That is why you add the worm castings and shit to it. I agree that peat moss and everything in a living soil might be able to sustain life better and everything, but there is absolutely no reason why coco can't hold the biological life you need if you are adding it to the medium. I use recharge weekly too that also adds the microbial life too. So like I said, I meant this post to learn and see what other people do and to debate. Not for people to say your way sucks and isn't a way of growing. Not once did I ever say to anybody that there way of growing is wrong and you can't do that. So if it is so wrong then I want you to tell me why it is so wrong and tell me how I could do better. What I could use better. How I could better amend or feed.

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If you want to do a no till, living soil kinda thing, then do living soil. Ditch the coco, unless you wanna run hydro style and bottled nutes.

UpInSmoke420$24 said:

So if it is so wrong then I want you to tell me why it is so wrong and tell me how I could do better. What I could use better. How I could better amend or feed.

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How to do better? Use coco with dry salts. Feed daily or preferably multiple times daily.

Ok, Thanks for all the input. And I top dress in the coco every 2 weeks. 4 tbs per gallon of Worm Castings and 1tbs per gallon 4-4-4. Close to flower I do a mix of 4 4 4 and dr earth flower girl. And the last 2 top dresses in flower are full dr earth flower girl.

And for all the people saying look at the plants in my pictures, they show deficiencies...please tell me what deficiencies you see there? Other than being a little small, the only clear-cut deficiencies there are the ones I have in living soil lol ??? I am lost lol Honestly, some of the best plants out of the bunch are the ones in coco lol

except for one Grape Pupil V2. Has been very unhappy

UpInSmoke420$24 said:

And for all the people saying look at the plants in my pictures, they show deficiencies...please tell me what deficiencies you see there? Other than being a little small, the only clear-cut deficiencies there are the ones I have in living soil lol ??? I am lost lol Honestly, some of the best plants out of the bunch are the ones in coco lol

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Ok you just don't want to hear it. Got it.

Have you thought about starting your own YouTube channel? You seem to have your growing on total lock, so that would be the perfect place for you to spread your knowledge.

LeastExpectedGrower said:

Have you thought about starting your own YouTube channel? You seem to have your growing on total lock, so that would be the perfect place for you to spread your knowledge.

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You didn't quote anyone but I'm assuming you are referring to me since I made the last post.

So are you saying he should continue sticking dry amendments in coco?

I have a feeling this grow deserves to be upinsmoke

twentyeight.threefive said:

You didn't quote anyone but I'm assuming you are referring to me since I made the last post.

So are you saying he should continue sticking dry amendments in coco?

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I'm talking to the OP.

LeastExpectedGrower said:

I'm talking to the OP.

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I knew that

You Tube strikes again ….

UpInSmoke420$24 said:

Ok, Thanks for all the input. And I top dress in the coco every 2 weeks. 4 tbs per gallon of Worm Castings and 1tbs per gallon 4-4-4. Close to flower I do a mix of 4 4 4 and dr earth flower girl. And the last 2 top dresses in flower are full dr earth flower girl.

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* Sigh - all that feed wasted.

You do you …
I’m gonna make some popcorn

Respectfully, to everyone involved in this post, I believe there is a tremendous miscommunication here.

OP has the same problem I have in life. I ask questions when I try to clarify information; unfortunately, asking questions can often be perceived as insubordination and insults. Silly as that sounds, that is the fact of the matter. I learn by asking questions. Others learn by doing, some by hearing. We all "learn" in different ways.

I don't believe the OP is "not listening to advice", but is seeking clarification.

I'm a little bummed that the OP is being met with such antagonistic responses; I've answered the most basic questions on here until I'm blue in the face and I have never been antagonistic, sarcastic, or cruel to anyone. This thread is just making me sad, because I truly expected more helpful responses from some of you guys. I am genuinely disappointed.

UpInSmoke420$24 said:

And for all the people saying look at the plants in my pictures, they show deficiencies...please tell me what deficiencies you see there? Other than being a little small, the only clear-cut deficiencies there are the ones I have in living soil lol ??? I am lost lol Honestly, some of the best plants out of the bunch are the ones in coco lol

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I feel people in here are reading your replies the wrong way, friend.

Look, he even says "I am lost". He is asking for clarification, not being a smart ass.

How could a beginner possibly be able to identify deficiencies like we all can? We've been growing for how long compared to OP? Of course he doesn't know! Stop busting his balls. Either answer the questions, or show some class and stay quiet.

If you have nothing productive to say, do not say it at all.

You guys see someone being antagonistic, I see someone just trying to ask questions to gain clarification.

Or, perhaps I'm the naive one here.

Hollatchaboy said:

We don't need to tell you why doing it is wrong. Your plants are telling you. Listen to the plant.

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We do need to tell him, that is why he is here. He needs help, and pretty much no one here is giving him any help, just sarcasm and trolling. Did you know what deficiencies you had during your first grow? Of course OP doesn't know what deficiencies he has, how could he possibly know? Even if he did a Google search, he still won't know for sure, because he doesn't have the experience.

People learn in different ways. Respectfully, "your plants are telling you" is a vague statement to someone new with no experience. Try not to view OP as antagonistic, but curious and gaining clarification. I'm not trying to be a dick here either, just making an observation.

Especially you, Holla, I'd never dog on someone that had a Randy Rhoads icon.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic here either; simply trying to provide some of the people in this thread with a different perspective on things.

Why don't we just smoke some weed, and try to help this guy out? Maybe some day, he'll be helping the new people himself!

Regards.