Wetting agent with Hydroton?

cues

cues

Well-Known Member
Was just thinking (OK, I'm stoned!)
If a wetting agent were added to my res in a flood and drain, hydroton-filled table would this not make more frequent flood cycles needed, increase cation exchange and aeration?
The only bad side I can see is if i used a household product and it all foamed over!
Any thoughts?
 
cues

cues

Well-Known Member
p.s. I must be missing something or I would have heard of someone else doing it.
 
Warlock1369

Warlock1369

Well-Known Member
There are a few on the market. Just never saw the point so never tryed. I like the flow rate I got now so lowering the viscosity of the water for better flow isn't in my plans. That and it's something eles added to the water possibly bringing up the ppm. I try to add little as possible so my plants can take up as much nutes as they can.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
I've never had hydrophobicity issues with Hydroton. With FF soil yes, but not Hydroton. I don't anticipate advantage. cn
 
cues

cues

Well-Known Member
Weird, I was expecting an answer pointing out where I had made a massive, obvious mistake.
Maybe we get enough aeraton etc with Hydroton anyway?
Maybe not.
All I'm saying is good is good.
Who says we can't go one better?
Something tell me I'm still missing something here.
 
cues

cues

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
I've never had hydrophobicity issues with Hydroton. With FF soil yes, but not Hydroton. I don't anticipate advantage. cn
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The thing is CB, at what point do we say 'I've never had hydrophobicity issues with Hydroton'
How do we know things can't work better until we try?

You know this isn't meant with any malice. We are all working together.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
cues said:
The thing is CB, at what point do we say 'I've never had hydrophobicity issues with Hydroton'
How do we know things can't work better until we try?

You know this isn't meant with any malice. We are all working together.
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I understand that, cues. However a wetting agent is like a medicine and not a vitamin imo. To correct a wetting problem, a wetting agent is the sovereign fix ... especially one that does not degrade quickly.
But in a healthy grow, I cannot get myself to see it doing any incremental good. Roots are "wet" by their nature, and Hydroton is a truly neutral medium ... it does not exchange many ions.
In terms of aeration: wetting agents can't improve that process and might actually interfere, if there is any persistent foam. As for them helping the roots transpire, I can't see how.

No malice here either. I'm rolling the idea around in my mind's mouth and not tasting any benefit. cn
 
cues

cues

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
I understand that, cues. However a wetting agent is like a medicine and not a vitamin imo. To correct a wetting problem, a wetting agent is the sovereign fix ... especially one that does not degrade quickly.
But in a healthy grow, I cannot get myself to see it doing any incremental good. Roots are "wet" by their nature, and Hydroton is a truly neutral medium ... it does not exchange many ions.
In terms of aeration: wetting agents can't improve that process and might actually interfere, if there is any persistent foam. As for them helping the roots transpire, I can't see how.

No malice here either. I'm rolling the idea around in my mind's mouth and not tasting any benefit. cn
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But Hydroton is made from Kaolonitic clay. In its natural state (before the baking at 1000 degrees lol!), it has a very high (if not the highest of most soils) Cationic exchange rate (CEC). Does the cooking affect this?
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
cues said:
But Hydroton is made from Kaolonitic clay. In its natural state (before the baking at 1000 degrees lol!), it has a very high (if not the highest of most soils) Cationic exchange rate (CEC). Does the cooking affect this?
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Profoundly. It sinters the exchange sites shut. Hydroton is essentially porous rock. cn
 
cues

cues

Well-Known Member
Hydroton is essentially porcelain (white clay) that is fired at 1000 degrees and made from a specific clay, as mentioned above as I understand it.
 
cues

cues

Well-Known Member
Geez, I 'm tired. Maybe we can talk tomorrow. There are reasons I know so so much about it. I wouldn't expect anyone else to.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
What I am saying is that once fired, the clay properties go away, including the ion-exchange capacity. It's the difference between flour and bread, to use a crude analogy. cn
 
Warlock1369

Warlock1369

Well-Known Member
It sounds like you want us to ether say it works or it dosnt. So far you have gotten we haven't tried it and don't see the need. I would say give it a shot and report what you find. Pos and neg. We would like to know.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
For what it's worth ... cn

Hydroton is the trade name for "lightweight expanded clay aggregate" or LECA. Simply put, small clay balls are heated in a rotary kiln to about 1200° C of expanding and form a hard clay particle about the size of a marble.

Advantages: Reusable, sterile because of high temperatures during production, and has a high air-porosity potential.
Disadvantages: The product typically contains dust that must be washed prior to use. Hydroton is practically inert, having almost no cation exchange capacity.
Click to expand...
 
Matchbox

Matchbox

Well-Known Member
I can't imagine it would make much difference except in the foamy deposits left behind that might linger in the root zone to add extra moisture for a longer period, possibly allowing what 5 mins extra between flooding times lol.

If you are using Ceramis clay pebbles (slightly different to Hydroton) a wetting agent might allow them to 'suck up' more water as they have slightly better water retaining properties. Other than that, give it a go and report back!

Just a few £ worth of random crap XD

Stay Frosty!
 
cues

cues

Well-Known Member
Thanks all. Good replies.
It's obviously something I need to learn a lot more about (hydroton and cation exchange).
Any links would be useful.
These Ceramis stones sound interesting? What do they weigh?
 
Matchbox

Matchbox

Well-Known Member
cues said:
Thanks all. Good replies.
It's obviously something I need to learn a lot more about (hydroton and cation exchange).
Any links would be useful.
These Ceramis stones sound interesting? What do they weigh?
Click to expand...
They're pretty much the same as Hydroton, just a bit more clay'ish similar weight etc :)
 
blacksun

blacksun

New Member
I have used sm90 a few times in perlite hempy and a few times in dwc. I did not need to water more when I used it (in perlite...in dwc I always had the water level at a certain spot so that doesn't quite count towards your question).

I use it as a preventative measure against algae and anything else that might "attach" itself to any medium or other surfaces.
 
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