What a coincidence, War is hell.

medicineman

New Member
Walking in McNamara's Footsteps McCain in Baghdad
The media spectacle that John McCain made of himself in Baghdad on Sunday was yet another reprise of a ghastly ritual. Senator McCain expressed "very cautious optimism" and told reporters that the latest version of the U.S. war effort in Iraq is "making progress."

Three years ago, in early April 2004, when an insurrection exploded in numerous Iraqi cities, U.S. occupation spokesman Dan Senor informed journalists: "We have isolated pockets where we are encountering problems." Nine days later, President Bush declared: "It's not a popular uprising. Most of Iraq is relatively stable."

For government officials committed to a war based on lies, such claims are in the wiring.

When Defense Secretary Robert McNamara visited Vietnam for the first time, in May 1962, he came back saying that he'd seen "nothing but progress and hopeful indications of further progress in the future."

In October 1966, when McNamara held a press conference at Andrews Air Force Base after returning from a trip to Vietnam, he spoke of the progress he'd seen there. Daniel Ellsberg recalls that McNamara made that presentation "minutes after telling me that everything was much worse than the year before."

Despite the recent "surge" in the kind of media hype that McCain was trying to boost last weekend in Baghdad, this spring has begun with most news coverage still indicating that the war is going badly for American forces in Iraq. Some pundits say that U.S. military fortunes there during the next few months will determine the war's political future in Washington. And opponents of the war often focus their arguments on evidence that an American victory is not possible.

But shifts in the U.S. military role on the ground in Iraq, coupled with the Pentagon's air war escalating largely out of media sight, could enable the war's promoters to claim a notable reduction of "violence." And the American death toll could fall due to reconfiguration or reduction of U.S. troop levels inside Iraq.

Such a combination of developments would appeal to the fervent nationalism of U.S. news media. But the antiwar movement shouldn't pander to jingo-narcissism. If we argue that the war is bad mainly because of what it is doing to Americans, then what happens when the Pentagon finds ways to cut American losses -- while continuing to inflict massive destruction on Iraqi people?

American news outlets will be inclined to depict the Iraq war as winding down when fewer Americans are dying in it. That happened during the last several years of the Vietnam War, while massive U.S. bombing -- and Vietnamese deaths -- continued unabated.

The vast bulk of the U.S. media is in the habit of defining events around the world largely in terms of what's good for the U.S. government -- through the eyes of top officials in Washington. Routinely, the real lives of people are noted only as shorthand for American agendas. The political spin of the moment keeps obscuring the human moment.

Awakening from a 40-year nap, an observer might wonder how much has changed since the last war that the United States stumbled over because it could not win. The Congressional Record is filled with insistence that the lessons of Vietnam must not be forgotten. But they cannot be truly remembered if they were never learned in the first place.
 

medicineman

New Member
Wow, where did you find this?
On the internet. There are a lot of information sites on the net and sometimes you run accross a gem like this, just start googling everything that holds your interest and you'll be amazed at what you will learn.
 

Wavels

Well-Known Member
excerpted from meds post...
"For government officials committed to a war based on lies, such claims are in the wiring."

A war based on lies?

This untruth is a bigger lie than ANYTHING Bushco has perpetrated.

What about the millions of dead after US left Vietnam?
Somehow that does not matter?
Bush Derangement syndrome at work here
Balderdash and codswallop....hehehe

:mrgreen:
 

medicineman

New Member
excerpted from meds post...
"For government officials committed to a war based on lies, such claims are in the wiring."

A war based on lies?

This untruth is a bigger lie than ANYTHING Bushco has perpetrated.

What about the millions of dead after US left Vietnam?
Somehow that does not matter?
Bush Derangement syndrome at work here
Balderdash and codswallop....hehehe
:mrgreen:
Wavels, Propaganda is like quicksand, if you let it grasp your mind, the farther you let it slip in the harder it is to get it out. I'm pretty sure you're goin under. I'd say it's time for a reality check. You can spout all the rhetoric on the planet but if you are the Christian dude you profess to be, you'd know it's time to go. I don't really care who wins an arguement here on this sorry site, but I know whats right and wrong, and continuing in Iraq is wrong.
 

medicineman

New Member
this site is not "sorry".





Geeze, I guess I offended your poor little mentality. OK the site is not sorry, Feel better? The gist of what I was saying I'm sure went zing right over your head. The point was that right is right and no matter what you think as an individual, there is a collective rightness about an issue that transends the individual thought process. OK? Now did I soothe your savage beast. Oh pooh, I should know there are sensitive critters on here. BTW love the picture.
 

medicineman

New Member
whatever. it's just rude to insult your place of residency. don't you think?
Depends on the place, I maybe, took the "sorry" out of context, but if you were in Iraq, I think it would be appropriate to insult your place of residence. Seems like an extremely trivial pursuit.
 

Wavels

Well-Known Member
Med I wish you could be specific in your critique, because you, my friend, have bought into the distortions brought on by the dire Bush Derangement Syndrome...in which facts and human history count for nada....zilch.....as long as you can make GWB look bad...
The War on terror is morally justifiable and will be regarded as such historically....time will tell...

Fdd is a lot closer to your perspective than he is to mine...and still you find a way to offend him....fdd's point is well made...why beat up on this site?

Hang in there fdd.....med is a chronic malcontent...hehehe!:joint::mrgreen:
 

ViRedd

New Member
Right on Wavels. Its all about hatred for Bush. The extreme left still hasn't gotten over the 2000 election. They hate Bush so much that they would be willing to sell the entire country down the tubes if it meant another (what they percieve to be) black mark against Bush. As for me ... I support Bush's efforts in fighting the terrorists and I support his tax cuts as well.

The Democrat party said they had a "plan." Now that they're in control of the senate and congress, where's the plan? Also, if they refuse additional funding, which is unlikely, what is their plan for the region after we pull out? All I hear from them on this issue is dead silence.

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
Right on Wavels. Its all about hatred for Bush. The extreme left still hasn't gotten over the 2000 election. They hate Bush so much that they would be willing to sell the entire country down the tubes if it meant another (what they percieve to be) black mark against Bush. As for me ... I support Bush's efforts in fighting the terrorists and I support his tax cuts as well.

The Democrat party said they had a "plan." Now that they're in control of the senate and congress, where's the plan? Also, if they refuse additional funding, which is unlikely, what is their plan for the region after we pull out? All I hear from them on this issue is dead silence.

Vi
Same mindless support of failed policies. The only sustainable reason is your almighty tax cuts. Bomb the whole fucking planet if you can get a break on your taxes, sick minds, sick!
 

medicineman

New Member
Med I wish you could be specific in your critique, because you, my friend, have bought into the distortions brought on by the dire Bush Derangement Syndrome...in which facts and human history count for nada....zilch.....as long as you can make GWB look bad...
The War on terror is morally justifiable and will be regarded as such historically....time will tell...

Fdd is a lot closer to your perspective than he is to mine...and still you find a way to offend him....fdd's point is well made...why beat up on this site?

Hang in there fdd.....med is a chronic malcontent...hehehe!:joint::mrgreen:
Wavels I see you're still on your journey through the mindlessness of the Bush agenda. There is a light somewhere, keep looking. When Bushs' follys have been proven, maybe you'll recognize some of the inherent truths that exist outside the realm of neo-conservatism. Not everything can be solved with gunbarrel diplomacy and if you looked around you'd see, thats why 90% of the world hates our guts, we (The Bush Regime) are the bullies of the schoolyard and the other kids are starting to stand up to us. Yeah, we can always pull out a bigger gun, but there are other players in the game with huge guns also. If you are willing to put your family in a nuclear meltdown, then just play along with the Neo-cons, they are right on track.
 
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