What are your thoughts on a basic income?

abandonconflict said:

Fair enough. Aggregate demand alone is not the market.

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a market is Me having more tomatoes than i need, and You having more wheat than you need so we exchange at a mutually agreed upon price.

if you dont need tomatoes, but DO need a blanket, and i know a weaver who needs tomatoes, BAM! triangle trade.

after a while you need some "Money" to make transfers of value from tomatoe guy to corn guy to weaver woman to buffalo hunter to jade carver to soap maker to carpenter to blacksmith to you, cuz all you really wanted was a hammer, thus currency is born, and government hasnt showed up once.

and when all that running around a wheeling and dealing has you exhausted, thats when you realize you can trade Money for stuff from everybody, and collect MORE money by selling that shit to everybody as they want it.

pow, you just became the first merchant.

now you need a spot to keep and display all your goods for sale or trade, and you just invented The Shop.

sorry bro. thats capitalism. and government still hasnt showed it's face.

if your village is isolated on an island, and everybody knows everybody, you wont need government at all, despite rampant capitalism, at least until somebody shows up on a boat (probably white people, sadly...) and they try to take all your shit.

after that, you need defense forces (who are thus not part of the productive workforce, but still require pay so they can buy their food and shelter and whatnot), negotiators (ditto) officers and managers to keep shit working (double ditto), and of course somebody to be the Face Man (triple ditto), which means you just invented government and all the shit that goes with it.

and how do you pay those NON-Productive workers who neither till, nor sow, nor reap?

taxes.

BigNBushy said:

Im not a Republican. If you were to count the issues, I probably have more issues that I agree with Democrats on, its just the ones that are more important to me Im typically leaning Republican. But I am not registered, and I vote for Democrats at the state/local level about 50/50, but I have yet to vote D for a presidential race.

Anyway, here are some things where I dont just disagree with the R, but I agree with the D.

Gay marriage, pro choice, drug prohibition, a womans body has rape defense systems, government shouldn't have debt, how they interpret freedom of religion to mean make kids pray before class, and I cant remember right now.

Gun rights, small business friendly policy, and a general denial of socialist polocies are why I usually chose R over D, but I got some D in me.(No Homo)

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fixed that for ya.

Actually diamonds are artificially scarce. Even 1\2 karat flawless diamonds are regularly made into cutting tips.

Dr Kynes said:

a market is Me having more tomatoes than i need, and You having more wheat than you need so we exchange at a mutually agreed upon price.

if you dont need tomatoes, but DO need a blanket, and i know a weaver who needs tomatoes, BAM! triangle trade.

after a while you need some "Money" to make transfers of value from tomatoe guy to corn guy to weaver woman to buffalo hunter to jade carver to soap maker to carpenter to blacksmith to you, cuz all you really wanted was a hammer, thus currency is born, and government hasnt showed up once.

and when all that running around a wheeling and dealing has you exhausted, thats when you realize you can trade Money for stuff from everybody, and collect MORE money by selling that shit to everybody as they want it.

pow, you just became the first merchant.

now you need a spot to keep and display all your goods for sale or trade, and you just invented The Shop.

sorry bro. thats capitalism. and government still hasnt showed it's face.

if your village is isolated on an island, and everybody knows everybody, you wont need government at all, despite rampant capitalism, at least until somebody shows up on a boat (probably white people, sadly...) and they try to take all your shit.

after that, you need defense forces (who are thus not part of the productive workforce, but still require pay so they can buy their food and shelter and whatnot), negotiators (ditto) officers and managers to keep shit working (double ditto), and of course somebody to be the Face Man (triple ditto), which means you just invented government and all the shit that goes with it.

and how do you pay those NON-Productive workers who neither till, nor sow, nor reap?

taxes.

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That's probably true, I don't know why some of us want to rule everything, surely there are better things in life than ruling people, it seems like such a chore.

Excellent comment Dr

abandonconflict said:

Actually diamonds are artificially scarce. Even 1\2 karat flawless diamonds are regularly made into cutting tips.

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yes. artificially scarce so the price doesnt drop below a set point.

nothing wrong with that, i got no concerns over this activity.

it only becomes problematic when a necessity is atrificially priced out of reach, like wheat. which is why we have quotas and subsidies, to prevent underproduction and avoid shortfalls and high prices.

if some jackass tried to corner the market on wheat, and gouge with high prices for his stockpile of wheat, that dude gets lynched, and rightly so.

capitalism NEEDS limits usually in the form of collectivism, but collectivism also needs capitalism, otherwise it falls apart.

abandonconflict said:

Actually diamonds are artificially scarce. Even 1\2 karat flawless diamonds are regularly made into cutting tips.

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Yep, that is true as far as I can tell. They burn excess diamonds, I read that somewhere I would have to go look where I read it because I can't remember

The wealthiest members of our society are the least productive.

nevyn said:

Yep, that is true as far as I can tell. They burn excess diamonds, I read that somewhere I would have to go look where I read it because I can't remember

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Cecil Rhodes made no secret of it.

abandonconflict said:

The wealthiest members of our society are the least productive.

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I think you could say that they produce the least through their own personal effort.

I think investing your money so other people can produce something (and you of course get a return) is an equally valuable service.

A poor person would have a hell of a hard time giving someone a job.

nevyn said:

Yep, that is true as far as I can tell. They burn excess diamonds, I read that somewhere I would have to go look where I read it because I can't remember

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i doubt this strongly.

many diamonds are stockpiled in warehouses, particularly russia's industrial diamond stockpile (the best known example) and various rumored Debeers stockpiles (shhh...)

only a fool destroys something he can sell later, and destroying diamonds by burning would be MASSIVELY expensive, im talking about a gas bill that hasnt been seen since The Third reich

crushing them into powder for tools use is far more cost effective, and happens all the time, but i doubt it happens with desirable diamonds.

i know it happens with substandard colour, flawed or puny diamonds, but half carat flawless? i doubt it.

remember the diamond trade is dominated by Jews...

(insert Anti-Semitic quip here)

(wait for expected outrage)

(toll-portunity)

(lulz)

(Up The Stakes)

(lulz)

(Next Level Trolling)

(Super-Lulz)

(reported)

(Giga-Lulz)

(Deleted)

(moar lulz)

(Back on Track)

... and you know they keep their commerce On The Real.

Labor creates all wealth.

abandonconflict said:

Cecil Rhodes made no secret of it.

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Yeah I don't like old Cecil much, we have a statue of him here, I smoke weed under his crotch and the birds have pooped all over his head, so it's a little justice for me. lol.

BigNBushy said:

I think you could say that they produce the least through their own personal effort.

I think investing your money so other people can produce something (and you of course get a return) is an equally valuable service.

A poor person would have a hell of a hard time giving someone a job.

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ORLY?

Dr Kynes said:

i doubt this strongly.

many diamonds are stockpiled in warehouses, particularly russia's industrial diamond stockpile (the best known example) and various rumored Debeers stockpiles (shhh...)

only a fool destroys something he can sell later, and destroying diamonds by burning would be MASSIVELY expensive, im talking about a gas bill that hasnt been seen since The Third reich

crushing them into powder for tools use is far more cost effective, and happens all the time, but i doubt it happens with desirable diamonds.

i know it happens with substandard colour, flawed or puny diamonds, but half carat flawless? i doubt it.

remember the diamond trade is dominated by Jews...

(insert Anti-Semitic quip here)

(wait for expected outrage)

(toll-portunity)

(lulz)

(Up The Stakes)

(lulz)

(Next Level Trolling)

(Super-Lulz)

(reported)

(Giga-Lulz)

(Deleted)

(moar lulz)

(Back on Track)

... and you know they keep their commerce On The Real.

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You may be right, I would have to go through my books to find the reference, they could also have used it as term for destroying or changing. Not sure

There are wealthy prostitutes.

abandonconflict said:

Labor creates Nearly all wealth.

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labour creates all goods and many services, but certainly not all wealth.

abandonconflict said:

There are wealthy prostitutes.

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no, there are wealthy WHORES

Prostitutes are Labour.

Edit: Bonus Points if you read that in Sideshow Bob's voice.

Oh look, kkkynes is trying to redefine words again.

abandonconflict said:

Oh look, kkkynes is trying to redefine words again.

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Prostitutes are tradeswomen.
example: streetwalkers

whores are not professional sex workers.
example: paris hilton

the two are quite different.

Prostitute is a trade

whore is a pejorative.

being a whore is legal, prostitution is illegal.


it's really quite simple.

call a prostitute a whore and she will slap you (or her pimp will...)

call a whore a prostitute and she will protest that money hasnt changed hands.

Dr Kynes said:

Prostitutes are tradeswomen.
example: streetwalkers

whores are not professional sex workers.
example: paris hilton

the two are quite different.

Prostitute is a trade

whore is a pejorative.

being a whore is legal, prostitution is illegal.


it's really quite simple.

call a prostitute a whore and she will slap you (or her pimp will...)

call a whore a prostitute and she will protest that money hasnt changed hands.

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Wow, how accurate is that, nice Dr Kynes very nice.