What causes this? Deficiency? Fungus?

Dlgrow

Dlgrow

Member
I always get this problem. Starts with the first true leaves turning brown at the tips and then becoming crispy and brittle, then spreading upwards throughout the plant. Usually appears after stretch to around mid flower, but this star pupil x goji og is showing it after only a month of growth, along with an overall drooping of the plant.

Here is it's progression during just a few days (same leaf)
IMG_20190331_223951.jpg IMG_20190403_130234.jpg IMG_20190404_215601.jpg From what I've been reading online, my guess is that it could be a magnesium deficiency. But I also found this thread about "rust fungus" which has got me paranoid AF
https://www.rollitup.org/t/lets-talk-about-rust-fungus-what-you-need-to-know.614137/
What is the cause? How have you cured this?

Hoping it's just a deficiency, I have read og strains and crosses prefer higher amounts of calmag than others.

I am also growing star pupil x blue magoo bx2, which it is growing great, and showing no signs of this nasty shit.
IMG_20190403_221107.jpg
Both plants have been receiving the same amounts of nutrients.

I'm using fox farm's happy frog soil and general organic's GO box at 1/2 the recommended dose but upped it to the full strength (along with some recharge by realgrowers) when I watered them last night, and the plant perked up from it's droopy state :D also got my temps at 70-77f now, was at 66-70, which probably wasn't helping. Humidity @ 30-40%. Also I first discovered this problem right after I topped my plant. Maybe this strain didn't like being topped?

I gotta finally know what is causing this! Happens to me every grow, only this time it's about a month sooner than usual. Please help me save this plant :weed:
 
OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
Looks like it could be some sort of fungal attack. Take all the bottom leaves off to reduce chances of spread and allow better airflow around the base of the plant to help prevent more. That's usually enough to fix 'er up. Very common problem with bushy, wide-leaved plants with the base closed in with leaves. Traps too much moisture in there.

I'd be going easy on the nutes with that hot soil. You can still burn them with organics.

Looking really good tho and in no time at all you won't miss the bottom leaves. :)
 
Dlgrow

Dlgrow

Member
OldMedUser said:
Looks like it could be some sort of fungal attack. Take all the bottom leaves off to reduce chances of spread and allow better airflow around the base of the plant to help prevent more. That's usually enough to fix 'er up. Very common problem with bushy, wide-leaved plants with the base closed in with leaves. Traps too much moisture in there.

I'd be going easy on the nutes with that hot soil. You can still burn them with organics.

Looking really good tho and in no time at all you won't miss the bottom leaves. :)
Click to expand...
Thanks for the speedy reply! I just removed the first true leaves and the 3 fingered leaves that were a node above. I left the top 2 nodes (out of 4) leaves on to monitor in the meantime.

Could this shit spread to my other healthy plant? I had the plants close together earlier and they were touching leaves, but they are further apart now.

Mass Medical Strains states that the Goji Pupil has a 25% herm rate and he recommends growing it outdoors. Since I'm already pushing my luck with this plant, maybe I could use it to test the waters of my very first outdoor grow.

Thanks for the helpful response
 
OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
Keep an eye on it but it's not a nasty kind of fungi like powdery mildew. It's just that it had the right conditions and now conditions have changed that won't support the lifestyle to which it had become accustomed. ;)

All sorts of spoors etc are always present but need just the right conditions to establish themselves. Foliar spray with potassium silicate kills it off fast and is good for your plants. Has a high pH and they don't like that. 1ml/L is enough. Even baking soda will do and some use milk but I dunno about that.

Should get some clones off those plants and once the mom's grow out chuck the clones from any that show hermie tendencies. Then use the others for moms and run off clones. Or select the best from the 1st moms and give a buddy the others.
 
Dlgrow

Dlgrow

Member
OldMedUser said:
Keep an eye on it but it's not a nasty kind of fungi like powdery mildew. It's just that it had the right conditions and now conditions have changed that won't support the lifestyle to which it had become accustomed. ;)

All sorts of spoors etc are always present but need just the right conditions to establish themselves. Foliar spray with potassium silicate kills it off fast and is good for your plants. Has a high pH and they don't like that. 1ml/L is enough. Even baking soda will do and some use milk but I dunno about that.

Should get some clones off those plants and once the mom's grow out chuck the clones from any that show hermie tendencies. Then use the others for moms and run off clones. Or select the best from the 1st moms and give a buddy the others.
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That's good to know, and a heavy weight lifted off my shoulders for sure.

And good looking out on the foliar spray with potassium silicate. I'm ordering some silica online and considering Advanced Nutrients rhino skin or NPK Industries RAW silica.
 
Dlgrow

Dlgrow

Member
DjSuperman said:
It looks like over-watering to me, and nutrient burn,,,,
FLUSH THAT SHIT!!!!
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I've been letting them dry out pretty good between each watering and only giving a little less than half of an average water bottle (they're in 1 gal pots) & they've been drinking it up, watering every 2 to 3 days. Both plants getting the same amount of water, but one's droopy & the other one has been praying upwards, off and on and looking happy, I don't get it :wall:
I do water - feed - water - feed, and they have only been fed twice so far, one half strength (week 3 veg) and one at the recommended dose (week 4). The leaves perked up on the last feeding but i do need to watch it with these organic nutes, because from what I have read about general organics is that once you over-do it, it's real hard to flush out since it isn't a salt based nutrient line. And those leaves are looking pretty dark green.
 
OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
Dlgrow said:
I'm ordering some silica online and considering Advanced Nutrients rhino skin or NPK Industries RAW silica.
Click to expand...
I like the Rhino Skin but get the smallest jug you can. They sell 250ml I think. I bought a full liter 3 years ago and still have half left and it goes all green and gets little snot balls in it that plug up the needle when I suck some up with a syringe. Pretty sure it still works OK and I have a 500ml bottle of a cheaper, more concentrated one a little older that is still clear. It's so thick tho it pours like molasses and won't suck into the syringe even without a needle on it.

The Rhino has stuff in it so it doesn't raise the pH as much and made to work with the pH Perfect nutes. I've used the AN 3-part in soilless or DWC since 2001. Long before they came out with the pH Perfect tech.

If watering regular potassium silicate in when feeding you should always add it to the water first, pH down from the 9 or 10pH it will be to around 7, then add in your nutes starting with Micro if using a 3-part nutrient then either the Grow or Bloom next. Stuff like CalMag after.

With the Rhino I follow the same order but don't worry about adjusting the pH before adding nutes as they are made to work together. In fact I never bother checking the pH using those nutes and only use RO or distilled water so I don't have to worry about all the crap in the tap water interfering with my plants.

I wouldn't feed for a bit. With that hot soil you are using you can go all the way thru veg without ever feeding if you up-pot the plants as they get bigger into larger pots with fresh soil. A few years ago I tried an experiment using ProMix Veg&Herb with some added perlite alone to grow some Blue Heaven plants. Started in 3" square pots then into larger pots as soon as the lower leaves started showing a hint of yellow. Did that until the 4th pot size of around 2L and they were healthy and lush with nothing added but RO water. It's organic, time-release nutes they use in that and it seems to be pretty good as I had no signs of any deficiency. Does not seem to work well with added 3-part nutes so I just use ProMix HP straight out of the bale with 3-part nutes from Day 1 so I control what the plants eat. The Veg&Herb stuff seems to act a bit like that Miracle Grow soil with it's chemical time-release nutes and can suddenly seem to release all at once and burn the plants.

We have very low humidity here and that can make the plants burn easily because the plants get too many nutes coming in with all the extra water they drink. I changed from water-feed-water-feed to feeding each watering but at much lower levels. Seems to work a lot better. No more crispy leaves starting around the middle of flower.
 
OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
Dlgrow said:
I've been letting them dry out pretty good between each watering and only giving a little less than half of an average water bottle (they're in 1 gal pots) & they've been drinking it up, watering every 2 to 3 days. Both plants getting the same amount of water, but one's droopy & the other one has been praying upwards, off and on and looking happy, I don't get it
Click to expand...
Pot likes a wet/dry cycle so you should let them dry until the pots feel very light then soak them completely. I'll let them sit in the runoff for a while until they don't pull in any more water then remove what's left if any. I figure they need bigger pots as soon as they need watering every 48 hours. I don't want to have to go down to the grow room more than every 2 days so it works out well. :)
 
Dlgrow

Dlgrow

Member
BostonBuds said:
It does look like over watering to me. How are you determining when to water, do you have a meter?
Click to expand...
OldMedUser said:
Pot likes a wet/dry cycle so you should let them dry until the pots feel very light then soak them completely. I'll let them sit in the runoff for a while until they don't pull in any more water then remove what's left if any. I figure they need bigger pots as soon as they need watering every 48 hours. I don't want to have to go down to the grow room more than every 2 days so it works out well. :)
Click to expand...
No meter, but I lift the pots to get a feel of the weight and I use the method of sticking my finger in the soil about an inch down. I don't water if the top inch feels wet and will even hold off watering a little longer if what's below the first inch feels wet too. I always did this with Fox Farm Ocean Forest soil with success, but I do feel like the Happy Frog soil holds onto the moisture a little more, so maybe I am watering with too much moisture still in the bottom 2/3rds of the pot. I feel like I have been letting the top of the soil get pretty dry though.

The last couple of times I have watered, I did get runoff, but it was such a small amount, it was just barely enough to do ph tests with. Are my plants too small to be getting runoff in 1 gallon pots?

Also, I forgot to add in my previous posts, that the first time I got runoff and tested it, the ph was 7-7.5, which was one of the reasons why I gave em that full dose of the nutes. The general organics mix brings my water from 8.2 to around 5-6 (the test liquid was orange :shock:) but the GO box states not to bother adjusting ph with their lineup, so I gave that feeding to my plants and got the runoff to a 6.5-7 range. This was the feeding that perked up the plant, after I had already noticed the leaf problems.

It's kinda hard for me to ignore adjusting ph after always getting lockout issues during late flower with my previous grows, so I went ahead and got Earth Juice natural up & down. From what I have read about it, it shouldn't harm any beneficial bacteria in the organic nutrients or microbes I have been adding to my soil. I'm just wanting to play it safe since the nutrient mix comes out acidic and the peat moss in my soil could get acidic down the road as well.
 
Dlgrow

Dlgrow

Member
OldMedUser said:
I like the Rhino Skin but get the smallest jug you can. They sell 250ml I think. I bought a full liter 3 years ago and still have half left and it goes all green and gets little snot balls in it that plug up the needle when I suck some up with a syringe. Pretty sure it still works OK and I have a 500ml bottle of a cheaper, more concentrated one a little older that is still clear. It's so thick tho it pours like molasses and won't suck into the syringe even without a needle on it.

The Rhino has stuff in it so it doesn't raise the pH as much and made to work with the pH Perfect nutes. I've used the AN 3-part in soilless or DWC since 2001. Long before they came out with the pH Perfect tech.

If watering regular potassium silicate in when feeding you should always add it to the water first, pH down from the 9 or 10pH it will be to around 7, then add in your nutes starting with Micro if using a 3-part nutrient then either the Grow or Bloom next. Stuff like CalMag after.

With the Rhino I follow the same order but don't worry about adjusting the pH before adding nutes as they are made to work together. In fact I never bother checking the pH using those nutes and only use RO or distilled water so I don't have to worry about all the crap in the tap water interfering with my plants.

I wouldn't feed for a bit. With that hot soil you are using you can go all the way thru veg without ever feeding if you up-pot the plants as they get bigger into larger pots with fresh soil. A few years ago I tried an experiment using ProMix Veg&Herb with some added perlite alone to grow some Blue Heaven plants. Started in 3" square pots then into larger pots as soon as the lower leaves started showing a hint of yellow. Did that until the 4th pot size of around 2L and they were healthy and lush with nothing added but RO water. It's organic, time-release nutes they use in that and it seems to be pretty good as I had no signs of any deficiency. Does not seem to work well with added 3-part nutes so I just use ProMix HP straight out of the bale with 3-part nutes from Day 1 so I control what the plants eat. The Veg&Herb stuff seems to act a bit like that Miracle Grow soil with it's chemical time-release nutes and can suddenly seem to release all at once and burn the plants.

We have very low humidity here and that can make the plants burn easily because the plants get too many nutes coming in with all the extra water they drink. I changed from water-feed-water-feed to feeding each watering but at much lower levels. Seems to work a lot better. No more crispy leaves starting around the middle of flower.
Click to expand...
Thank you for taking your time to provide me with such helpful advice! It 's very much appreciated :clap:

Isn't there a way to give rep on here? I still haven't found it yet lol
 
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