What is normal growth for seedling

J

jclaxton78

Member
Hi all,

I am a complete noob, growing in 50/50 coco-perlite mix in 3 gallon fabric pots. Placed germinated seeds into the mix and under the light a week ago. It's a powerful LED, so I know lighting is not the problem. My issue is.....the seedlings are about an inch tall, with first pair of leaves. Is this normal, or slow growth? I haven't given them any nutrients and they otherwise look very healthy, just so damn small. A buddy of mine is growing in Miracle Gro and he says he's seeing huge growth spurt at only 11 days in. What the hell am I doing wrong, if anything?

Frustrated.
 
Pete Townshend

Pete Townshend

Well-Known Member
If you put germinated seeds in your mix a week ago and now have 1 inch tall seedlings after a week it sounds like there doing fine. Be patient, and stay away from miracle grow especially if it has time release nutrients. Also, be sure keep your LED far enough away as to not bleach your plants.
 
J

jclaxton78

Member
Pete Townshend said:
If you put germinated seeds in your mix a week ago and now have 1 inch tall seedlings after a week it sounds like there doing fine. Be patient, and stay away from miracle grow especially if it has time release nutrients. Also, be sure keep your LED far enough away as to not bleach your plants.
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Thank you, that is reassuring. I did a lot of research and decided not to use Miracle Grow w/time release nutrients. I bought GH Flora Duo (A&B), that covers veg and bloom. I also bought a Cal-Mag supplement from GH. I haven't given the seedlings any nutrients yet. They are growing in coco-perlite only. No soil at all.

I spoke with the man who created the light, and he suggested 4-5 feet distance during seedling stage, as this light is extremely intense. I see no signs of stretching. I think the light distance is perfect where I have it at 54 inches. I noticed some bleaching on 1 seedling a few days ago that coincided with when I chose (my own fault) to lower the light to 44 inches. I have since raised the light back to suggested distance (about 54") and that bleaching has stopped.
 
J

jclaxton78

Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
you aint 11 days in. and your buddy may be full of shit. or his idea of a huge growth spurt may be a second set of leaves. relax
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I panic, I can't help it haha. OK, so I just noticed, by bending down and looking at eye level, that my leaves are turned downward and curled downward at the tips. This means I'm overwatering correct? I don't know if I've been overwatering the whole time or if it's just the first time I noticed this. Anyhow, have I done damage to them? Will they recover and still become great adults or have I stunted them bigtime because of this? I've always heard that with seedlings and especially autos, there is little room for error.


Should I rip em out and start over? I feel like they should be much larger and that I probably was overwatering this whole time. :cry: I wonder how much growth I've missed out on because of this. What a shame.
 
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Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
no, don't rip anything out. you learn not a damn thing ripping shit out of the ground. you wanna learn how to grow nice healthy plants? resign yourself to the fact that you will fuck up a few before you get it right, and the best way to learn is to find out how to correct the problems you're having.
no idea if you're over watering, usually if the whole leaf is curling under, then yes. if just the tip is curling under, its probably "the claw" a sure sign of too much N
post us a couple of pictures, under regular lights. one of the plant, one of the whole area so we can see how its set up. much easier to give advice if we can see what the hell is going on.
and quit worrying about what your friend is doing. i started about the same time as my friend who has a lot more money than me. he used to make me jealous with his equipment, now i make him jealous because i actually learned shit while he was listening to the asshats at the hydro store sell him shit he didn't need. knowledge is a way better thing to have than a meter you don't even understand how to work.
 
J

jclaxton78

Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
no, don't rip anything out. you learn not a damn thing ripping shit out of the ground. you wanna learn how to grow nice healthy plants? resign yourself to the fact that you will fuck up a few before you get it right, and the best way to learn is to find out how to correct the problems you're having.
no idea if you're over watering, usually if the whole leaf is curling under, then yes. if just the tip is curling under, its probably "the claw" a sure sign of too much N
post us a couple of pictures, under regular lights. one of the plant, one of the whole area so we can see how its set up. much easier to give advice if we can see what the hell is going on.
and quit worrying about what your friend is doing. i started about the same time as my friend who has a lot more money than me. he used to make me jealous with his equipment, now i make him jealous because i actually learned shit while he was listening to the asshats at the hydro store sell him shit he didn't need. knowledge is a way better thing to have than a meter you don't even understand how to work.
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You make perfect sense, and I value your input. It is definitely overwatering. They are very wilted, the entire leaf not just the tip. I haven't given any nutes yet. I'm 100% sure now that it is overwatering as the cause. I'm pretty sure I've been overwatering the entire time, I just can't confirm it. But I definitely have learned. I just can't stand the thought that I did this and I want to start over because I did everything else right.

I'm fine with mistakes and I know they are going to happen. Yet this is one I think will dramatically lessen my yields, since the root development stage is so vital early on, and I'm pretty sure I stunted the hell out of them all week. If I rip the 3 of them out, I lose out on like $15 worth of seeds, that's it really. I have more.
 
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Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
you just said you're a complete noob

jclaxton78 said:
Hi all,

I am a complete noob, growing in 50/50 coco-perlite mix in 3 gallon fabric pots. Placed germinated seeds into the mix and under the light a week ago. It's a powerful LED, so I know lighting is not the problem. My issue is.....the seedlings are about an inch tall, with first pair of leaves. Is this normal, or slow growth? I haven't given them any nutrients and they otherwise look very healthy, just so damn small. A buddy of mine is growing in Miracle Gro and he says he's seeing huge growth spurt at only 11 days in. What the hell am I doing wrong, if anything?

Frustrated.
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^ see?
so what makes you an expert on early plant development? if you really feel that way, go ahead.
i'm telling you a slow first week doesn't mean shit. plants grow roots in steps, to match the canopy, they grow out, then the canopy grows out, then the roots grow out to support a larger canopy, then the canopy grows out to support a larger root system, then the root system.....
get it? you're not going to see constant quick growth, when the canopy slows down it doesn't usually mean a damn thing is wrong, it means your roots are catching up. the only time to worry is if growth seems to stop for more than a couple of days. set those off to the side and start a few more if you want, but i wouldn't give up on them any time soon.
 
BobBitchen

BobBitchen

Well-Known Member
next time try keeping seedlings in an appropriate size container, they dont need 3gals of medium, easier to over water, maybe germ in solo cup, 1/2 full of medium, add soil as seedling grows, then to one gal & veg awhile, from there they should be strong enough to go into any size ya want............or not.....
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
alright. are the stems upright and just the leaves on the stem drooping, or are the stems starting to sag as well? if its just the leaves, thats over watering. if the actual stems are starting to wilt, then its underwatering. if the whole leaf is curled , overwater, if its just the tip, N tox. if its both, then its both.
if you really don't feel like these are worth your effort, then get rid of them and start some more. but what are you going to do when your friend gives you some really hard to get, absolute fire seeds, and they do the same thing?.... you don't know....learn now, on the cheap shit.....
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
actually somewhere along here i lost track of the fact these are autos. 99% of what i said is still valid. you may have stunted them a little, but i'd still use this as a learning experience, unless space is a real issue. everything you learn this time you can apply to the next time. if you can take an auto with problems and still make it produce something, the next time you'll do even better on a plant with no major issues to deal with.
 
J

jclaxton78

Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
you just said you're a complete noob



^ see?
so what makes you an expert on early plant development? if you really feel that way, go ahead.
i'm telling you a slow first week doesn't mean shit. plants grow roots in steps, to match the canopy, they grow out, then the canopy grows out, then the roots grow out to support a larger canopy, then the canopy grows out to support a larger root system, then the root system.....
get it? you're not going to see constant quick growth, when the canopy slows down it doesn't usually mean a damn thing is wrong, it means your roots are catching up. the only time to worry is if growth seems to stop for more than a couple of days. set those off to the side and start a few more if you want, but i wouldn't give up on them any time soon.
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I'm no expert but I do have an update. I was overwatering them the entire time. Growth basically stopped for like 3-4 days. I pulled them all and will start over. I checked the roots and they didn't look good at all, short and/or having little to no branching out on some of them. The growing medium was moist in the middle and at the bottom, which means it would have taken several more days for it to dry out......and in the meantime sacrificing even more root development, or slowing it to a crawl.

In the end, I'm out like $20 worth of seeds, 10 days of time. I feel so relieved to start over fresh, realizing my error and being committed to preventing it in the future. I'm one of those people that it would have bothered me the next 10-12 weeks if I'd tried to ride it out and hope for the best. I'd be constantly wondering, "what could have been". Sometimes it's best to cut your losses and IMO, this was the time for that. It's not just that I made a mistake, it's that this mistake went on for the entire life of the seedling and would have gone even longer given how long it takes for the pot to dry out. My stress is gone and I learned a lesson. Eager to begin again and have some germinating right now.
 
J

jclaxton78

Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
alright. are the stems upright and just the leaves on the stem drooping, or are the stems starting to sag as well? if its just the leaves, thats over watering. if the actual stems are starting to wilt, then its underwatering. if the whole leaf is curled , overwater, if its just the tip, N tox. if its both, then its both.
if you really don't feel like these are worth your effort, then get rid of them and start some more. but what are you going to do when your friend gives you some really hard to get, absolute fire seeds, and they do the same thing?.... you don't know....learn now, on the cheap shit.....
Click to expand...
It was the entire leaf, curled and wilted down. Stems were fine. I euthanized them and I'm starting over. I see why overwatering is the most common mistake noobs make. Thank you for your detailed explanations on what to look for, I will keep that in mind. I have learned from my mistake and will adapt immediately.
 
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