What light bulb?

M

MathewGrows

Well-Known Member
bicit said:
seems needlessly complicated and messy to me. Personally I'm learning that less is more. If I can get the same result with less parts and components, why complicate it? Ebb and flow systems are very bulky.

1: Skip clay pebbles. They're useful in things like aquaponics where their large surface area allows the micro herd to thrive. However it's pretty much useless in a synthetic hydro setup. I actually don't use any media in my netcups anymore. I just hold the plant in place with neoprene inserts until it's large enough to fit into a trellis or tomato cage. I still get the same results without the dust and cleaning.

2: Why all the messy transplanting? If all you're going to grow is common herbs why not just start them in the unit you plan to grow them in? A big complication with no clear gain.

3: Why the several different sizes of mesh pots? Transplanting from a small one too a large one offers no advantage to the plant. It only occupies more space and spends more money. I get the same results from 2" netcups that I did from 10" mesh pots. But I get 100 2" netcups for what 2 ten inch mesh pots cost.

Comb through this thread. GG707 is a very well respected grower and contributor to the LED section. His most recent run with GG#4 was very well done and the results were fantastic. Using fabric pots, coco fiber, blumats, and a basic hydroponic formula. Start to finish in the same pot with very good labresults.

ETA: I guess a link would be helpful.... derp :P

http://rollitup.org/t/greengenes-garden.839682/page-40
Click to expand...
Thank you for all the help!
 
M

MathewGrows

Well-Known Member
bicit said:
seems needlessly complicated and messy to me. Personally I'm learning that less is more. If I can get the same result with less parts and components, why complicate it? Ebb and flow systems are very bulky.

1: Skip clay pebbles. They're useful in things like aquaponics where their large surface area allows the micro herd to thrive. However it's pretty much useless in a synthetic hydro setup. I actually don't use any media in my netcups anymore. I just hold the plant in place with neoprene inserts until it's large enough to fit into a trellis or tomato cage. I still get the same results without the dust and cleaning.

2: Why all the messy transplanting? If all you're going to grow is common herbs why not just start them in the unit you plan to grow them in? A big complication with no clear gain.

3: Why the several different sizes of mesh pots? Transplanting from a small one too a large one offers no advantage to the plant. It only occupies more space and spends more money. I get the same results from 2" netcups that I did from 10" mesh pots. But I get 100 2" netcups for what 2 ten inch mesh pots cost.

Comb through this thread. GG707 is a very well respected grower and contributor to the LED section. His most recent run with GG#4 was very well done and the results were fantastic. Using fabric pots, coco fiber, blumats, and a basic hydroponic formula. Start to finish in the same pot with very good labresults.

ETA: I guess a link would be helpful.... derp :P

http://rollitup.org/t/greengenes-garden.839682/page-40
Click to expand...
Looks like I need to read some more lol
 
M

MathewGrows

Well-Known Member
Honestly not sure man theres so many different things that i could do but Idk Im reading up on some stuff that I was told to check out
 
Midwest Weedist

Midwest Weedist

Well-Known Member
MathewGrows said:
Nectar of the Gods.That's a different brand of nutrients right?
Click to expand...
Yep, it's organic which is a bit harder to hurt your plants with. Though still very possible. I like organics, even if it's unfortunately bottled, because of the clean product you get from it and the lessened impact it has on the environment.
bicit said:
Yeah I don't recommend running anything like that until you've got a few runs in with good old petro ferts. 'Organic hydroponics' is a marketing gimick and very expensive. It can also be very problematic if you don't fully understand all the concepts involved with organic feeding.

KISS, Lucas formula ftw.

If you're wanting to go 'organic', the ROLLS recycled organic living soil thread is worthwhile to investigate. I think some of the best results come from people using those methods.
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It's much more than a marketing ploy, while I'll never buy another bottle of anything other than black strap molasses, I do see a difference in them. True organic bottled nutrients/beneficial organisms/etc aren't synthetic, they're made from natural sources. So it's more than just a way to hike up the price.That being said, I think he should still go with soil, much easier to learn with, but I'm one of the die-hard organic notill guys, so I'm biased. I'd just like to see him have the best and cleanest product after harvest.
 
bicit

bicit

Well-Known Member
Midwest Weedist said:
It's much more than a marketing ploy, while I'll never buy another bottle of anything other than black strap molasses, I do see a difference in them. True organic bottled nutrients/beneficial organisms/etc aren't synthetic, they're made from natural sources. So it's more than just a way to hike up the price.That being said, I think he should still go with soil, much easier to learn with, but I'm one of the die-hard organic notill guys, so I'm biased. I'd just like to see him have the best and cleanest product after harvest.
Click to expand...
The funny part is I don't see the difference between so called 'organic ferts' and traditional salt fertilizers. Frankly im against any sort of 'system' that requires the grower to purchase thirty eleven different bottles with complicated mixing directions.

General hydroponics bloom and micro 2:1 with some ph down is all he need to get started witb hydro. fabric pots plus coco work amazingly and get good lab results.

True organics like practices by those in the rolls thread is major overkill for the casual newbie. Ive been doing research for months and still uncover new material every day.

Bottled 'organic' hydroponic nutrients are a scam imo. They don't do anything that Jack's or gh don't for a fraction of the price.

I use no till practices and passive hydro. They both work very well, but passive hydro is far simpler. I don't even use my ph meter any more its that simple.
 
K

keeper1981

Well-Known Member
Everyone has to start somewhere. By all means study up, use the basics get yourself a few more cfl's, get your first successful grow under your belt. Once you have mastered that then decide if you want to venture further before investing a bit of time and money in a better setup. But basically get some experience and a few successful grows and upgrade from there.
 
K

keeper1981

Well-Known Member
bicit said:
The funny part is I don't see the difference between so called 'organic ferts' and traditional salt fertilizers. Frankly im against any sort of 'system' that requires the grower to purchase thirty eleven different bottles with complicated mixing directions.

General hydroponics bloom and micro 2:1 with some ph down is all he need to get started witb hydro. fabric pots plus coco work amazingly and get good lab results.

True organics like practices by those in the rolls thread is major overkill for the casual newbie. Ive been doing research for months and still uncover new material every day.

Bottled 'organic' hydroponic nutrients are a scam imo. They don't do anything that Jack's or gh don't for a fraction of the price.

I use no till practices and passive hydro. They both work very well, but passive hydro is far simpler. I don't even use my ph meter any more its that simple.
Click to expand...
Agree hydro specific nutrients and supplements are a thing of the past for me. But you cant tell some people this they are stuck in their ways and caught in the hype. The basics elements is all you need food, light, air, water not 20 bottles of crap. I now spend a small fraction of what I used to before I became wiser to all the bullshit.
 
Midwest Weedist

Midwest Weedist

Well-Known Member
bicit said:
The funny part is I don't see the difference between so called 'organic ferts' and traditional salt fertilizers. Frankly im against any sort of 'system' that requires the grower to purchase thirty eleven different bottles with complicated mixing directions.

General hydroponics bloom and micro 2:1 with some ph down is all he need to get started witb hydro. fabric pots plus coco work amazingly and get good lab results.

True organics like practices by those in the rolls thread is major overkill for the casual newbie. Ive been doing research for months and still uncover new material every day.

Bottled 'organic' hydroponic nutrients are a scam imo. They don't do anything that Jack's or gh don't for a fraction of the price.

I use no till practices and passive hydro. They both work very well, but passive hydro is far simpler. I don't even use my ph meter any more its that simple.
Click to expand...
There's nothing overkill about building a soil mix that's water only ;) The rols notill thread may seem scary because we use big words but it's basic shit people have been doing in their gardens for decades man. You can mix earth worm castings, perlite, compost, and water it from seed to flower with no issues. I'd like to see a hydro setup do that. What happens if he dumps a bit to much nutrients in his mix? What of he dumps his res? The what ifs for hydro are through the roof. In basic organics you have to worry about stuff like over/under watering and minor pest annoyance (which good vermicompost prevents 99% of the time).
I went from synthetic nutes to completely hand built soil in less than a month with only an hour or so a day reading the rols not ill thread and asking some random questions. My first all organic grow blew all of my chemical grows over the years and required absolutely nothing but water. That's how you kiss man. A ph meter or ppm meter has never even touched my soil, the soil life does it by itself.
Organic hydro, imo, is about making sure your environmental impact is lower (one of the reasons I went to notill) and ending up with a cleaner product. Plants don't necessarily care what form their food is in, but the end result is wildly different when grown with synthetic nutrients vs organically. Organic plants have higher nutritional values at exponential rates. Organics does matter, even if it's only organically based nutrients in hydroponics setup. Your body knows the difference, trust me.
organic-vs-conventional-foods.jpeg
 
M

MathewGrows

Well-Known Member
Midwest Weedist said:
There's nothing overkill about building a soil mix that's water only ;) The rols notill thread may seem scary because we use big words but it's basic shit people have been doing in their gardens for decades man. You can mix earth worm castings, perlite, compost, and water it from seed to flower with no issues. I'd like to see a hydro setup do that. What happens if he dumps a bit to much nutrients in his mix? What of he dumps his res? The what ifs for hydro are through the roof. In basic organics you have to worry about stuff like over/under watering and minor pest annoyance (which good vermicompost prevents 99% of the time).
I went from synthetic nutes to completely hand built soil in less than a month with only an hour or so a day reading the rols not ill thread and asking some random questions. My first all organic grow blew all of my chemical grows over the years and required absolutely nothing but water. That's how you kiss man. A ph meter or ppm meter has never even touched my soil, the soil life does it by itself.
Organic hydro, imo, is about making sure your environmental impact is lower (one of the reasons I went to notill) and ending up with a cleaner product. Plants don't necessarily care what form their food is in, but the end result is wildly different when grown with synthetic nutrients vs organically. Organic plants have higher nutritional values at exponential rates. Organics does matter, even if it's only organically based nutrients in hydroponics setup. Your body knows the difference, trust me.
View attachment 3467374
Click to expand...
So basically what your saying if you'd compare hydro to organic soil mixture that you would make up, it would be like eating a bag of doritos (hydro) to eating a apple (if that make sense)
 
bicit

bicit

Well-Known Member
Midwest Weedist said:
There's nothing overkill about building a soil mix that's water only ;) The rols notill thread may seem scary because we use big words but it's basic shit people have been doing in their gardens for decades man. You can mix earth worm castings, perlite, compost, and water it from seed to flower with no issues. I'd like to see a hydro setup do that. 1: What happens if he dumps a bit to much nutrients in his mix? 2:What of he dumps his res? 3:The what ifs for hydro are through the roof. In basic organics you have to worry about stuff like over/under watering and minor pest annoyance (which good vermicompost prevents 99% of the time).
View attachment 3467374
Click to expand...
I honestly can't tell the difference between hydro and organic. Same strain, blind conditions, couldn't tell one from the other. There is zero difference. On the atomic level, it's all the same. After seeing several threads including GG707 most recent run's lab results, there's nothing to convince me that organic is somehow better, only different.

1: It's called a messuring cup. I don't know anyone who dumps straight into the res.
2: You're assuming he even needs a res. Hand watering coco is super simple.
3: Not really, passive hydro is just as simple as no till.

The other issue with true organics would be actually finding compost. You either have to buy it(expensive) find it(sometimes expensive, sometimes impossible), or make it. Same with vermicompost. Then you contend with the lesser quality of store bought materials or the quality of the materials you find. See how easy it is to make trivial matters seem scary? ;):P

I'm not here to turn this into a hydro vs organics thread. I just don't like people make a mountain out of a mole hill. They both have pro's and cons. I'm actually experimenting with combining many organic and hydroponic practices in a weird little hybrid system.

MathewGrows said:
So basically what your saying if you'd compare hydro to organic soil mixture that you would make up, it would be like eating a bag of doritos (hydro) to eating a apple (if that make sense)
Click to expand...
It would be more like surviving off glucose, protein shakes and vitamin supplements vs eating an actual balanced meal. They both get the job done. One is more enjoyable and often the best results come from mixing.

IMO
 
M

MathewGrows

Well-Known Member
bicit said:
I honestly can't tell the difference between hydro and organic. Same strain, blind conditions, couldn't tell one from the other. There is zero difference. On the atomic level, it's all the same. After seeing several threads including GG707 most recent run's lab results, there's nothing to convince me that organic is somehow better, only different.

1: It's called a messuring cup. I don't know anyone who dumps straight into the res.
2: You're assuming he even needs a res. Hand watering coco is super simple.
3: Not really, passive hydro is just as simple as no till.

The other issue with true organics would be actually finding compost. You either have to buy it(expensive) find it(sometimes expensive, sometimes impossible), or make it. Same with vermicompost. Then you contend with the lesser quality of store bought materials or the quality of the materials you find. See how easy it is to make trivial matters seem scary? ;):P

I'm not here to turn this into a hydro vs organics thread. I just don't like people make a mountain out of a mole hill. They both have pro's and cons. I'm actually experimenting with combining many organic and hydroponic practices in a weird little hybrid system.



It would be more like surviving off glucose, protein shakes and vitamin supplements vs eating an actual balanced meal. They both get the job done. One is more enjoyable and often the best results come from mixing.

IMO
Click to expand...
Alright that makes sense
 
bicit

bicit

Well-Known Member
MathewGrows said:
So all I would need to do is figure out a right soil mixture which you've stated above and just water it?
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1/3 compost, 1/3 peatmoss(or coco, wood chips, leafmould), 1/3 drainage (vermiculite,perlite, ricehulls). Some mineral amendments would be good if you plan to do a no till bed. You could probably just roll with that and tap water only and grow a very nice plant.
 
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