What?! Nothing on Libby? Nuff said ....

Hey Indie, how about backing some of your spew with facts?...........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................The most a bushie can do is mock and parrot talking points .... they can\'t dispute anything so that all they have ... quite pathetic really ... ..............................................................................................Med if you had read everything, you would know that this is in rebuttal to the vomit above. I am, and so is the* left/Democrates/Liberals* what ever it is you people are, aware of the past Clinton Pardons, But Scooter Libby is something to bitch about? Give us all a break. The Lefts Hipocrisy knows no bounds. The Biggest Bitch I have is, the Bush administration has thrown scooter to the wolves. You people need to clean up your own party, before you bitch about another.
 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

If you bothered to watch the video you would have saw that Clinton didn't pardon any of his friggin cabinate members and the ones he did pardon did jail time ... and he went through the DOJ before doing the pardons .... the illegitimate bush did not ... and Libby didn't do any jail time ...
.... no one said the dems were clean .... but you must be out your mind if you think the repukes are ...

Folks here is a commentary by Terry Jones of Monty Python fame on this very issue .....

A president transformed

[snip]On March 6 2007 Libby was convicted of obstruction of justice, making false statements to the FBI, and twice committing perjury before a grand jury. According to the charge sheet, Libby "did knowingly and corruptly endeavour to influence, obstruct and impede the due administration of justice by misleading and deceiving the grand jury". So it wasn't a case of absent-mindedness, then.
That is why George Bush's act of mercy is so inspiring, especially when one considers that compassion is not something generally associated with him. When he was governor of Texas, for instance, there were quite a number of convicted felons towards whom he didn't show much compassion at all. In fact he insisted they receive the full penalty of the law, which in their case was somewhat more severe than in Libby's. They were executed. When Bush became governor in 1995, the average number of executions in the state was 7.6 a year. During his time in office, he managed to put down a further 24 humans a year, bringing the annual number of executions up to 31.6; it is heartwarming to see how his attitude to convicted criminals has softened.

.... and here is something else interesting .... why Libby sentence was commuted.....

The Voice of the White House
Why did Bush pardon Libby? Simply because Libby was a man who knew too much. He was designated to take the fall for Cheney on the Plame business but drew the line at jail time. Libby saw to it that the brass in the White House knew that if he had to go to prison, he would sing like an opera star at La Scala and like a good singer, he would certainly bring down the house.
What would Libby talk about? Well, the plans to institute official torture cooked up by Cheney and eagerly approved by Bush. Cheney’s obscene rake-offs from the Halliburton scams, serious scandals about Gannon’s nocturnal visits to the White House and who he was fudge-packing, Karl Rove’s chronic blackmail of anyone who got in Bush’s way, Bush and Cheney’s outspoken contempt for blacks and their obedience to Israeli demands, Cheney’s determination to establish Iraq as a permanent forward military base to secure Iraqi oil for the US and his friends and serve as a launching pad for attacks on Israeli’s enemies, plans to oust Putin and regain control over Russian oil and gas fields, deliberately falsified “terror alerts” and, worse of all, knowingly launching an attack on Iraq using officially falsified CIA reports.

:joint: :hump: :peace:
 
Our Faux Constitutional Crisis
President Bush did what presidents do.

By Rich Lowry


Practically everything else in American life has been dumbed down, so why not constitutional crises? The braying over President Bush’s commutation of Vice President Dick Cheney’s former chief of staff Lewis “Scooter” Libby’s prison sentence is that Bush has undermined the rule of law and the Constitution.

The Founders would be bemused at this, since — inconveniently for the Scooter-must-hang left — they included the pardon power in the Constitution. There it is in Article II, Section 2: The president “shall have the power to grant reprieves and pardons.” They didn’t include a proviso that the power shall not extend to persons vilified by left-wing bloggers as the personification of “the case for war.”

Bush can hardly create a constitutional crisis by exercising a plenary constitutional power, and doing it in a way that has become almost routine. The first President Bush pardoned former CIA official Clair George (convicted of lying to Congress), former Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger (indicted for perjury), and former National Security Adviser Robert McFarlane (pled guilty to withholding information from Congress). Like the current Bush’s commutation, these Iran-contra pardons violated the Justice-department guidelines. And somehow, the republic survived.

President Clinton pardoned or commuted the sentences of former Arkansas operator Susan McDougal (jailed for myriad offenses); former Housing and Urban Development Secretary Henry Cisneros (caught up in an interminable independent-counsel investigation about whether he lied to the FBI); former CIA Director John Deutch (in the midst of a plea bargain over his mishandling of classified material); and eight people connected to the scandal around former Agriculture Secretary Mike Espy (all of whom had been convicted of or pled guilty to illegal acts).

This leaves aside Clinton’s truly egregious pardons and commutations: sixteen Puerto Rican terrorists over the opposition of the FBI and the Federal Bureau of Prisons; the international fugitive Marc Rich; one man convicted of mail fraud and perjury and another convicted of cocaine trafficking, each of whom had paid $200,000 to Hillary Clinton’s brother Hugh Rodman to represent them.

Bush’s commutation is nothing like those outrageous acts of clemency. It is perfectly in the mainstream of pardons throughout the past 20 years in cases that are considered politicized prosecutions by the aggrieved administrations. The Founders created the pardon power to grant relief from a justice system that might, in the words of Alexander Hamilton, be “too sanguinary and cruel.” It doesn’t serve that function so much anymore, but has turned out to be a safety valve in an era when each party criminalizes political disputes when it suits its purposes.

This creates a perpetual argument over whose perjury is worse. Liberals say that Libby’s perjury is more serious than Clinton’s because Libby lied about the war and Clinton lied only about sex. Actually, Libby’s case wasn’t about the war, but about whether or not he had misremembered when and from whom he first had heard that Joe Wilson’s wife, Valerie Plame, worked at the CIA. There also is an ambiguity to Libby’s case, with its complex assortment of conflicting memories, that didn’t exist in that of Bill Clinton, who admitted to testifying falsely under oath.

Regardless, except for the most blatant crimes, the political arena is the best forum for politically controversial charges of wrongdoing. Rather than commuting Libby’s sentence on grounds that it was excessive, Bush should have pardoned him altogether on grounds that the case had become a way to make one man pay for the alleged sins of the administration regarding the war. Our system of government provides a straightforward method to punish an administration without resorting to special prosecutors and criminal charges, which is to vote against the president or his party.

Just wait: The same people hyperventilating about Libby now will have exactly the opposite attitude about the criminalization of politics when a Democrat is back in the White House. Then, they will grow fond of Article II, Section 2 all over again.

© 2007 by King Features Syndicate
 
Indie said:
Hey Indie, how about backing some of your spew with facts?...........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................The most a bushie can do is mock and parrot talking points .... they can't dispute anything so that all they have ... quite pathetic really ... ..............................................................................................Med if you had read everything, you would know that this is in rebuttal to the vomit above. I am, and so is the* left/Democrates/Liberals* what ever it is you people are, aware of the past Clinton Pardons, But Scooter Libby is something to bitch about? Give us all a break. The Lefts Hipocrisy knows no bounds. The Biggest Bitch I have is, the Bush administration has thrown scooter to the wolves. You people need to clean up your own party, before you bitch about another.
Click to expand...

First of all I can do more than parrot talking points (which is what you are doing) And if you were to look earlier in this thread I said that I was pissed when Clinton handed out pardons like candy.
But it just goes to show you that you are the type to see one thing in a thread to latch onto but ignore the entire context of what is said.
What I will say though, The Republicans had really changed places with the democrats over the last 12 years. Hell they have gotten so smug that even their arguments don't make any sense. Just like yours. You happen to HATE liberals so much that you can't see when your own party is fucking up.
Even Vi admits that the Republicans are fucking up, the one who remain in office are jumping away from Bush and company like rats jumping off a sinking ship.
It's called self preservation.

Please research your material a bit better if you want to play with the big boys, Vi and I have been doing this for years and have built up a respect for each other.
 
Dankdude said:
First of all I can do more than parrot talking points (which is what you are doing) And if you were to look earlier in this thread I said that I was pissed when Clinton handed out pardons like candy.
But it just goes to show you that you are the type to see one thing in a thread to latch onto but ignore the entire context of what is said.
What I will say though, The Republicans had really changed places with the democrats over the last 12 years. Hell they have gotten so smug that even their arguments don't make any sense. Just like yours. You happen to HATE liberals so much that you can't see when your own party is fucking up.
Even Vi admits that the Republicans are fucking up, the one who remain in office are jumping away from Bush and company like rats jumping off a sinking ship.
It's called self preservation.

Please research your material a bit better if you want to play with the big boys, Vi and I have been doing this for years and have built up a respect for each other.
Click to expand...

Yes, this is true. I didn't vote for Bush either time, nor did I vote for his dad. In fact, I only voted for one Republican in the last election and he was running for a state office. As I've said many times before in this forum, the Democrats and Republicans are nothing more than two rival gangs fighting over the same territory. Personally, I'm sick and tired of both parties. Of the two parties, I consider the Democrat Party to be the more dangerous to liberty though.

Vi
 
ViRedd said:
Yes, this is true. I didn't vote for Bush either time, nor did I vote for his dad. In fact, I only voted for one Republican in the last election and he was running for a state office. As I've said many times before in this forum, the Democrats and Republicans are nothing more than two rival gangs fighting over the same territory. Personally, I'm sick and tired of both parties. Of the two parties, I consider the Democrat Party to be the more dangerous to liberty though.

Vi
Click to expand...
You may be correct on the liberty thing, although I'm not sure, Bush's gang has done quite a bit to destroy our rights, Habeas corpus etc. And I also don't see anything new outside of Mike Gravel who wants to disband most of the government (Yea), or Ron Paul who wants to disband the FED, both have my support, but not one chance in a million of winning the top spot. I Just see the Repubes as the most greedy of the two parties, and I abhor greed, unless it is of course mine. No I won't share my candy with you~LOL~. Oh, I probably would, next time your comin to town, let me know, I've got some candy I'll share ~lol~.
 
what happened to it all?

flaggadsdenlx5.jpg
 
fdd2blk said:
what happened to it all?

flaggadsdenlx5.jpg
Click to expand...
The people got fat and lazy with TV and fast food, Brain cells died, and we have the very politically uneducated public. The southern churches have decreed republicans for Jesus, or Jesus is for Republicans and have turned the tide to the right. The far right is driving the bus and it is heading for a cliff and no-one cares. The next sound you may hear may be your last, KABOOM!
 
ViRedd said:
Our Faux Constitutional Crisis
President Bush did what presidents do.

By Rich Lowry
Click to expand...

What a bunch of bullshit .... no one said the illegitimate bush doesn't have the right to do what he did .... but because he did it he is obstructing justice .... he is abusing the power which is quite clear ...

... all those people this pudent mention that got pardons did prison time and were not in the Clinton admin. .... Plus he went through the DOJ .... so that part of his spin is bullshit too.

.... and I don't believe the shit about the terrorists .... you'll have to back that up and since he didn't I supect it's more right-wing bullshit ....

.... misremembering my ass .... Libby was convicted because he block the investigation of who outed a CIA agent .... the illegitimate cheney .... with all his lies ... not because he "misremebered" .... that bullshit too.

Leave it to a bushie to try and turn a crime into something legal
:roll:
 
GrowRebel said:
What a bunch of bullshit .... no one said the illegitimate bush doesn't have the right to do what he did .... but because he did it he is obstructing justice .... he is abusing the power which is quite clear ...

... all those people this pudent mention that got pardons did prison time and were not in the Clinton admin. .... Plus he went through the DOJ .... so that part of his spin is bullshit too.

.... and I don't believe the shit about the terrorists .... you'll have to back that up and since he didn't I supect it's more right-wing bullshit ....

.... misremembering my ass .... Libby was convicted because he block the investigation of who outed a CIA agent .... the illegitimate cheney .... with all his lies ... not because he "misremebered" .... that bullshit too.

Leave it to a bushie to try and turn a crime into something legal
:roll:
Click to expand...

Really? How much "prison time" did Marc Rich do? The guy was a fugitive at large. He absconded with 43 million owed in taxes to the IRS. The guy not only got a pardon from Clinton, but he evaded his tax debt in the process. Why? Because his whore-wife "contributed" (can you spell graft?) to the Clintons.

Vi
 
I'm betting that Bush will give Libby a last minute pardon before he leaves office. That way Libby will be able to go back to practicing law..
 
ViRedd said:
Really? How much "prison time" did Marc Rich do? The guy was a fugitive at large. He absconded with 43 million owed in taxes to the IRS. The guy not only got a pardon from Clinton, but he evaded his tax debt in the process. Why? Because his whore-wife "contributed" (can you spell graft?) to the Clintons.

Vi
Click to expand...

Yeah, and guess who Rich's lawyer was folks ..... can you say Libby, libby, libby, on the label, label, label .... No one saying what Clinton did was right .... he was just as wrong as the illegitimate bush.

Also people were just as outraged as they were about Libby and wanted a congressional investigation ....

But at least Clinton didn't laugh when a woman who had more supporters than Libby .... a woman .... Karla Faye Tucker .... who changed her live and deserve a pardon .... but he wouldn't do it .... his pardons are reserved for elite friends that could rat him out if they get jail time .... at least Clinton used his pardon power to help people that needed it like the woman caught up in a drug string that was innocent, yet was given a long prison sentence ... that's the difference ...
yeah there's shit with Clinton .... but there's way more with the illegitmate bush regime.:roll: :joint: :hump:
 
Fingerprints of Libby and Cheney on the Marc Rich Pardon

So, a question to revive – or ask for the first time? – about the Marc Rich pardon: behind the scenes, did incoming Vice President Cheney support Rich’s pardon? Did Cheney help Libby get the job with Rich in the first place? Did Cheney help Libby bail just at the juncture when leaving Rich would give Libby plausible deniability on the Clinton pardon?
Regrettably, candor from either the Clintons or Bush-Cheney on this question is not a given.

:roll:
Oh and one other thing .... if Rich's only crime was so called tax evasion ... from the feds ... then that's not a crime ... because there is no law stating that we have to pay federal taxes ....
 
GrowRebel said:
Fingerprints of Libby and Cheney on the Marc Rich Pardon

So, a question to revive – or ask for the first time? – about the Marc Rich pardon: behind the scenes, did incoming Vice President Cheney support Rich’s pardon? Did Cheney help Libby get the job with Rich in the first place? Did Cheney help Libby bail just at the juncture when leaving Rich would give Libby plausible deniability on the Clinton pardon?
Regrettably, candor from either the Clintons or Bush-Cheney on this question is not a given.

:roll:
Oh and one other thing .... if Rich's only crime was so called tax evasion ... from the feds ... then that's not a crime ... because there is no law stating that we have to pay federal taxes ....
Click to expand...

Yep, we've hashed this out plenty of times here in the political forum. We may have more in common than you think. :)

Vi
 
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