What traits should I look for when selecting males and females to reverse?

TerrapinBlazin

Well-Known Member
So I’m all set up to start chuckin. I set up an isolated, negative pressurized tent that exhausts directly outside and now I’m starting to select potential phenos for breeding. I’ve selected two males so far based on stem rub smell, vigor, branching, and node spacing. Are there any other things I should consider when selecting a male? I know that those traits won’t automatically produce big fat, resin soaked buds in their offspring, but obviously the best looking and smelling males will carry those traits into the offspring, for the most part right?

While I mainly want to produce regular seeds, there are a few feminized (and regular) crosses I want to do with dispensary clones and some of my best phenos from seed. Is it the same with females? Just reverse the plants with the nicest buds? I’ve been interested in breeding for a long time, but only recently took the steps to actually go through with it.

Finally, what are the pros and cons of flowering a male in a tent with the females I want to cross vs flowering the male, collecting pollen, and dusting buds?

It’s been fun shopping for beans and growing them out, but at this point I have so many, mostly F1s, that I think it’s time to step up the pheno hunting with the beans I have while concurrently starting some serious tinkering with my favorite plants.
 

hot_box_enthusiast

Active Member
There’s a podcast called Potcast where the host Heavy Daze does long form interviews with a number of amazing breeders. He asks all of them the question about male selection. I’m only learning so I wouldn’t want to try and summarize anything yet.
 

Budderton

Well-Known Member
Selecting males is the tricky part for sure.
Depends on what your trying to achieve. Growing out the sisters to the males your intrested in, can give you insight into what they might bring to your cross.
Your fastest vegging Male may not be the best option if your trying to increase or at least maintain potency, as it may be devoting too much energy into fiber production.
They only way to really know if you got a good male is to grow out it's progeny.
I like to collect pollen from a few different males from the same strain, then do small, one to one breedings on different copies of the same cut. Save most of the pollen. Grow out the different batches. Select the best cross. Use the remaining pollen from that Male and make a lot of beans. Takes lots of time, but you find your best potential crosses.
I also do this when doing back crosses.
 

jimihendrix1

Well-Known Member
Need 2 Rooms, or a well designed area to isolate pollen vs Females.

Only way to really test males is to have a good female ect, and grow out 20-30 good males, flower them out, collect pollen, use each males pollen on selected branches, or different plants.
Grow out seed fom each male cross.

Also keep the flowered males alive/Reveg, and flower them out again to test for stability. Usually by 2nd time around, bad traits will show themselves generally. Same goes for Females.
 

TerrapinBlazin

Well-Known Member
I haven’t checked this thread in a while but there are some great replies in here and I had some more questions. I don’t have a separate room but I can exhaust a tent directly outdoors with a sealed duct and window plate and keep my flower tent mostly pollen free. A few stray beans would be really cool since they won’t be hermie schwag.

So I think I’m going to start with reversing a female. I do have one very promising looking male that smells great, has a nice structure, and very desirable heavily indica dominant traits. I’m using him for sure at some point but that’s down the road.

Anyway I’ve got 3 females that I’m considering at this point for reversing. One is an F1 of wedding pie and stardawg, pictured here. Came from regular seeds, great structure, clones super fast, pest resistant, awesome terps, great yield, frosty af, the works.
8E165F02-BCC9-465D-95A4-C0FC4BC61F3D.jpeg
Second candidate is an awesome pheno pictured below, a gelato leaning cut of Rado’s jibba jabba (gushers x sour dubb). Another pheno that meets all the criteria above except for one. I’m leery of reversing something that came from a feminized seed.
3A18CDE6-6509-4379-830C-DD44E57D4525.jpeg
The final one I’m thinking of reversing is my cut of GG4 from a local dispensary, mostly because I know it’s been done many times with a lot of success. I want my seed run to create at least 4 crosses and a S1. It’s starting to become apparent that the only way to make really good crosses is through trial and error, and finding a good stud is key. I’m popping a lot of beans made with well known studs in hopes of finding something similar. Studs like Rado’s grumpz (or grape pie x MAC which is also in that line) and biscotti sundae or GP’s stardawg are things I’m looking for in the beans I’m currently working with. I’m thinking in the case of the grumpz and stardawg where I have f2s of those studs I can find some pretty potent pollen.
 
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Budderton

Well-Known Member
I haven’t checked this thread in a while but there are some great replies in here and I had some more questions. I don’t have a separate room but I can exhaust a tent directly outdoors with a sealed duct and window plate and keep my flower tent mostly pollen free. A few stray beans would be really cool since they won’t be hermie schwag.

So I think I’m going to start with reversing a female. I do have one very promising looking male that smells great, has a nice structure, and very desirable heavily indica dominant traits. I’m using him for sure at some point but that’s down the road.

Anyway I’ve got 3 females that I’m considering at this point for reversing. One is an F1 of wedding pie and stardawg, pictured here. Came from regular seeds, great structure, clones super fast, pest resistant, awesome terps, great yield, frosty af, the works.
View attachment 4751230
Second candidate is an awesome pheno pictured below, a gelato leaning cut of Rado’s jibba jabba (gushers x sour dubb). Another pheno that meets all the criteria above except for one. I’m leery of reversing something that came from a feminized seed.
View attachment 4751231
The final one I’m thinking of reversing is my cut of GG4 from a local dispensary, mostly because I know it’s been done many times with a lot of success. I want my seed run to create at least 4 crosses and a S1. It’s starting to become apparent that the only way to make really good crosses is through trial and error, and finding a good stud is key. I’m popping a lot of beans made with well known studs in hopes of finding something similar. Studs like Rado’s grumpz (or grape pie x MAC which is also in that line) and biscotti sundae or GP’s stardawg are things I’m looking for in the beans I’m currently working with. I’m thinking in the case of the grumpz and stardawg where I have f2s of those studs I can find some pretty potent pollen.
Looks like you'll come out with some nice ones! You can collect pollen from several males at the same time, in the same space, using the paper bag tech, then store to use at your leisure. I flower males in a closet, far away from the flower room. When the flowers have formed but not opened, trim off everything that won't fit in the bag. write all pertinent info on paper bag. Cover the top and tape to stem real tight with painter's tape. Give it a week or so to finish out, then cut at base of bag, turn upside down, take out plant. All this work done well away from cooker room. You still have to clean and store and then you can use little bits at a time to find the good ones. When you find that good one (or ones), you can go to town on all your keeper cuts and make a ton of beans! Good luck on your chucking endeavors!20200919_121008.jpg
 

TerrapinBlazin

Well-Known Member
Now that is a cool technique. I suppose I could move the clone tent to a different room but my girlfriend might be unhappy. I’ve had a few plants throw balls and nanners in my flower tent and nothing got seeded too badly. Keeping the tent in the same room and exhausting directly outside, while using the paper bag trick, is still too risky as far as seeding a production crop goes? I don’t mind a few stray beans if they’re not hermies, but I don’t want to grow a half elbow of seeded bud.
 

TerrapinBlazin

Well-Known Member
So when I have the cuts all selected and ready to flip, I just mix up some STS and spray it (outside of the grow room) daily on the one I want to reverse, and then use the paper bag trick to keep the pollen somewhat contained? It seems doable and I’ll try to time it so that I don’t have anything in heat in my main tent flower tent when the pollen drops. Spraying everything with water neutralizes pollen, right?
 

Budderton

Well-Known Member
Now that is a cool technique. I suppose I could move the clone tent to a different room but my girlfriend might be unhappy. I’ve had a few plants throw balls and nanners in my flower tent and nothing got seeded too badly. Keeping the tent in the same room and exhausting directly outside, while using the paper bag trick, is still too risky as far as seeding a production crop goes? I don’t mind a few stray beans if they’re not hermies, but I don’t want to grow a half elbow of seeded bud.
Should be fine. Cut the bags off and do the removal of pollen in the garage .
 

Budderton

Well-Known Member
So when I have the cuts all selected and ready to flip, I just mix up some STS and spray it (outside of the grow room) daily on the one I want to reverse, and then use the paper bag trick to keep the pollen somewhat contained? It seems doable and I’ll try to time it so that I don’t have anything in heat in my main tent flower tent when the pollen drops. Spraying everything with water neutralizes pollen, right?
Yep. Spray and wait 30 mins.
 

Dabbie McDoob

Well-Known Member
For S1s I always try take cuttings and wait until the plant matures fully. I.e. is the end product desirable.
Then its simple. from their with STS. use sparingly I might add. It is very reactive stuff in the plants biologly.

For males. I always wait until 3 or 4 weeks into flower. The males mature way faster for obvious reasons.
Trichomes on upper male pollen sack clusters are desirable as well as some nice purple (antheocyanins. not psychoactive, all bag appeal).
Another thing to look for is the pollen quality. Some males produce lumpy pollen that sticks together. I look for the whitest and smoothest pollen.
Seems freeze better.

Beware. S1/2 etc you get inbred depression. Some offspring may not be desireable. Also. Who's to say the desirable traits are not recessive and selfing won't even express the correct alleles in progeny.

Good luck, pollenate day 28-34.
 
Its like two Different stories, breeding with regs or fems only.

Selecting a male is the most tricky Part.
The question should be, what are you selecting for?
A trait that can be meassured with your eyes? Like structure node spacing, or invisible traits like the Drug traits, or taste?
For the recessive Drug traits I would not select the strongest and first visible/active males in the batch, for example.
Lots of breeders not just use one Male.
Dabbie mentioned some good stuff to look for in males.
But at the end only a testrun will show the results.

To produce good female plants by crossing two good females is way easier.
But you should Test the shit out of them, to make Sure they have no easy to activate hermie abillity.
A female that throws bananas under lightstress oder ph fluctuation or nutefluctuation are no good candidates for making female beans.
The ones that dont react to Stress are the ones you looking for.
Those who will not grow bananas what ever Stress given to them, those are good for making female seeds.

My Last female cross I Stressed the shit out of two different clones. No one grew Bananas. So I took another batch of clones to grow for bud. One small Clone I seperated, and STS'ed.
Waited ten days longer to put the reversed one into flower.
Results were great.
Just Smoking the offspring, and its great!

It was...
Triple Purple Doja (super potent and dark purple from the beginning pheno) x Agent Orange (potent, golden buds, best yielding and overall from a selection run)

Peace, and happy chucking!
 
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