skinny510
Well-Known Member
Sorry to bug you with questions! Would you "cook" this seedling mix as well?
Thanks for the helpful info!
What's the best all organic base potting soil mix?
- Thread starter Kaptain Kronic
- Start date
Thanks for the helpful info!
Rasta Roy
Well-Known Member
You could, but I haven't and it's worked fine. A bit of Liquid Fish and Seaweed Fertilizer (like a teaspoon a gallon) certainly doesn't hurt.
skinny510
Well-Known Member
I noticed you aren't messing with any mycorrhizae, Rasta. Don't find it necessary?
Dear ol" Thankful Grower!
Well-Known Member
I like Rogue soil all purpose or G&B all purpose has all kinds of goodies and 4$ for a reg. Size bag
Yodaweed
Well-Known Member
Bro vermifire was some of the best I have ever used, I used them for over 2 years and then they sold their company to general hydroponics(owned by scotts) so I stopped using them.
greasemonkeymann
Well-Known Member
Whaaaaa???
fuckin Monsanto...
Oh well, haven't bought any vermifire in yrs, but it was the best back in the mid 2000s
greasemonkeymann
Well-Known Member
always use myco, dust roots at transplant.
crucial for uptake of phosphorus
Yodaweed
Well-Known Member
Mycos is ok , but GWS is the beastmode of root dustings instead of one type of bacteria its like over 200 types. Very expensive tho, I buy a small tub for about 50 bucks.
greasemonkeymann
Well-Known Member
love ya man, so i'll help ya out. (i'm not a know-it-all, just know a lil about myco)
extre myco is all the myco you need, plus it's the correct type of myco
the GWS is vastly overpriced, WAY more of the totally useless myco, AND they include other microbes and worst of all trichoderma (at HUGE populations)
they have WAY more ecto mychorrizhae (useless) than the beneficial types, and then they add a metric fuck-ton of trichodermas too (which are not bad, but VERY bad for your myco population)
if you get into the actual science behind it man, you'll see what I mean.
an analogy would be like this.
Pretend you are feeding a village in Africa
you make a helicopter drop 100 cows to feed them, but then at the same exact time you are dropping 12,000 hungry lions at the same time...
you think the village is EVER gonna see those cows??
nope..
trichodermas are insanely voracious, and they eat myco like mad
actually myco is readily consumed by almost all your microbes
knowwhattamean verne?
Yodaweed
Well-Known Member
That is untrue, there are MANY different species of tricoderma, and GWS only contains beneficial ones, the ones that you are talking about aren't in GWS.
greasemonkeymann
Well-Known Member
sorry brother.
that's not correct
according to the manufacturers website
and I was referring to the mychorrrizhae, not the trichoderma, trichodermas are easy to propagate
greasemonkeymann
Well-Known Member
from their website
you ONLY want the top nine things, and at those numbers?
just saying my man..
Endomycorrhiza
Glomus aggregatum – 83 props per gram
Glomus intraradices – 83 props per gram
Glomus mosseae – 83 props per gram
Glomus etunicatum – 83 props per gram
Glomus clarum – 11 props per gram
Glomus monosporum – 11 props per gram
Paraglomus brazilianum – 11 props per gram
Glomus deserticola – 11 props per gram
Gigaspora margarita – 11 props per gram
Ectomycorrhiza
Pisolithus tinctorious – 187,875 propagules per gram
Rhizopogon luteolus – 5,219 props per gram
Rhizopogon fulvigleba – 5,219 props per gram
Rhizopogon villosullus – 5,219 props per gram
Rhizopogon amylopogon – 5,219 props per gram
Scleroderma citrinum – 5,219 props per gram
Scleroderma cepa – 5,219 props per gram
Bacteria
Azotobacter chroococcum – 525,000 CFU’s per gram
Bacillus subtilis – 525,000 CFU’s per gram
Bacillus licheniformis – 525,000 CFU’s per gram
Bacillus azotoformans – 525,000 CFU’s per gram
Bacillus megaterium – 525,000 CFU’s per gram
Bacillus coagulans – 525,000 CFU’s per gram
Bacillus pumilus – 525,000 CFU’s per gram
Bacillus thuringiensis – 525,000 CFU’s per gram
Bacillus amyloliquefaciens – 525,000 CFU’s per gram
Paenibacillus durum – 525,000 CFU’s per gram
Paenibacillus polymyxa – 525,000 CFU’s per gram
Saccharomyces cerevisiae – 525,000 CFU’s per gram
Pseudomonas aureofaciens – 525,000 CFU’s per gram
Pseudomonas fluorescens – 525,000 CFU’s per gram
Trichoderma koningii-187,875 CFU’s per gram
Trichoderma harzianum-125,250 CFU’s per gram
Yodaweed
Well-Known Member
The cutting edge formula contains 16 different species of mycorrhizal fungi, 14 different species of beneficial bacteria and 2 species of trichoderma, all in one product.
16 types of myco, 16 other types as well. Every type of bacteria listed is beneficial. I have used mycos from extreme, GWS works better.
Yodaweed
Well-Known Member
most of the species they have actually do the opposite of what you say, they are mostly antagonist for the myco's they make the mycos populate and spread even more, like both those Trichoderma species are antagonists for mycos. Andddd you even listed the MANY myco types in your listing. both Endomycorrhiza and Ectomycorrhiza are species of mycos, you are really missing out by only using 1 type of bacteria.
greasemonkeymann
Well-Known Member
ok man.
Leading a horse to water my friend
go google the difference between endo and ecto myco
I'm not tryin to piss anyone off man, tryin to save you MONEY
factually speaking GWS is severely overpriced.
greasemonkeymann
Well-Known Member
cheap out?
the money you spend on growing/supplies is NEVER a good inclination of the product efficacy, oftentimes its the opposite
Yodaweed
Well-Known Member
mycorrhiza (Greek: μυκός, mykós, "fungus", and ρίζα, riza, "root",[1] pl. mycorrhizae or mycorrhizas) is a symbiotic association composed of a fungus and roots of a vascular plant.[2] In a mycorrhizal association, the fungus colonizes the host plant's roots, either intracellularly as in arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi (AMF or AM), or extracellularly as in ectomycorrhizal fungi. They are an important component of soil life and soil chemistry.
Two different ways to colonize roots, one is ectomycorrhizal and one is endomycorrhizal, I wouldn't pay the extra money if it wasn't worth it I am the cheapest grower yo uwill ever meet.
Yodaweed
Well-Known Member
Endomycorrhizal fungi (more commonly referred to as endomycorrhizae) is one of the major types of known mycorrhizae which differs from the another type of mycorrhizae, ectomycorrhizae, in structure. Unlike ectomycorrhizae which form a system of hyphae that grow around the cells of the root, the hyphae of the endomycorrhizae not only grow inside the root of the plant but penetrate the root cell walls and become enclosed in the cell membrane as well (1). This makes for a more invasive symbiotic relationship between the fungi and the plant. The penetrating hyphae create a greater contact surface area between the hyphae of the fungi and the plant. This heightened contact facilitates a greater transfer of nutrients between the two. Endomycorrhizae have further been classified into five major groups: arbuscular, ericoid, arbutoid, monotropoid, and orchid mycorrhizae (2).
Ectomycorrhiza[edit]
Beech is ectomycorrhizal
Main article: Ectomycorrhiza
Ectomycorrhizas, or EcM, are typically formed between the roots of around 10% of plant families, mostly woody plants including the birch, dipterocarp, eucalyptus, oak, pine, and rose[26] families, orchids,[32] and fungi belonging to the Basidiomycota, Ascomycota, and Zygomycota. Some EcM fungi, such as many Leccinum and Suillus, are symbiotic with only one particular genus of plant, while other fungi, such as the Amanita, are generalists that form mycorrhizas with many different plants.[33] An individual tree may have 15 or more different fungal EcM partners at one time.[34] Thousands of ectomycorrhizal fungal species exist, hosted in over 200 genera. A recent study has conservatively estimated global ectomycorrhizal fungal species richness at approximately 7750 species, although, on the basis of estimates of knowns and unknowns in macromycete diversity, a final estimate of ECM species richness would probably be between 20000 and 25000.[35]
Ectomycorrhizas consist of a hyphal sheath, or mantle, covering the root tip and a Hartig net of hyphae surrounding the plant cells within the root cortex. In some cases the hyphae may also penetrate the plant cells, in which case the mycorrhiza is called an ectendomycorrhiza. Outside the root, Ectomycorrhizal extramatrical mycelium forms an extensive network within the soil and leaf litter.
Nutrients can be shown to move between different plants through the fungal network. Carbon has been shown to move from paper birch trees into Douglas-fir trees thereby promoting succession in ecosystems.[36] The ectomycorrhizal fungus Laccaria bicolor has been found to lure and kill springtails to obtain nitrogen, some of which may then be transferred to the mycorrhizal host plant. In a study by Klironomos and Hart, Eastern White Pine inoculated with L. bicolor was able to derive up to 25% of its nitrogen from springtails.[37][38]
The first genomic sequence for a representative of symbiotic fungi, the ectomycorrhizal basidiomycete Laccaria bicolor, has been published.[39] An expansion of several multigene families occurred in this fungus, suggesting that adaptation to symbiosis proceeded by gene duplication. Within lineage-specific genes those coding for symbiosis-regulated secreted proteins showed an up-regulated expression in ectomycorrhizal root tips suggesting a role in the partner communication. Laccaria bicolor is lacking enzymes involved in the degradation of plant cell wall components (cellulose, hemicellulose, pectins and pectates), preventing the symbiont from degrading host cells during the root colonisation. By contrast, Laccaria bicolor possesses expanded multigene families associated with hydrolysis of bacterial and microfauna polysaccharides and proteins. This genome analysis revealed the dual saprotrophic and biotrophic lifestyle of the mycorrhizal fungus that enables it to grow within both soil and living plant roots.
Ectomycorrhiza[edit]
Beech is ectomycorrhizal
Main article: Ectomycorrhiza
Ectomycorrhizas, or EcM, are typically formed between the roots of around 10% of plant families, mostly woody plants including the birch, dipterocarp, eucalyptus, oak, pine, and rose[26] families, orchids,[32] and fungi belonging to the Basidiomycota, Ascomycota, and Zygomycota. Some EcM fungi, such as many Leccinum and Suillus, are symbiotic with only one particular genus of plant, while other fungi, such as the Amanita, are generalists that form mycorrhizas with many different plants.[33] An individual tree may have 15 or more different fungal EcM partners at one time.[34] Thousands of ectomycorrhizal fungal species exist, hosted in over 200 genera. A recent study has conservatively estimated global ectomycorrhizal fungal species richness at approximately 7750 species, although, on the basis of estimates of knowns and unknowns in macromycete diversity, a final estimate of ECM species richness would probably be between 20000 and 25000.[35]
Ectomycorrhizas consist of a hyphal sheath, or mantle, covering the root tip and a Hartig net of hyphae surrounding the plant cells within the root cortex. In some cases the hyphae may also penetrate the plant cells, in which case the mycorrhiza is called an ectendomycorrhiza. Outside the root, Ectomycorrhizal extramatrical mycelium forms an extensive network within the soil and leaf litter.
Nutrients can be shown to move between different plants through the fungal network. Carbon has been shown to move from paper birch trees into Douglas-fir trees thereby promoting succession in ecosystems.[36] The ectomycorrhizal fungus Laccaria bicolor has been found to lure and kill springtails to obtain nitrogen, some of which may then be transferred to the mycorrhizal host plant. In a study by Klironomos and Hart, Eastern White Pine inoculated with L. bicolor was able to derive up to 25% of its nitrogen from springtails.[37][38]
The first genomic sequence for a representative of symbiotic fungi, the ectomycorrhizal basidiomycete Laccaria bicolor, has been published.[39] An expansion of several multigene families occurred in this fungus, suggesting that adaptation to symbiosis proceeded by gene duplication. Within lineage-specific genes those coding for symbiosis-regulated secreted proteins showed an up-regulated expression in ectomycorrhizal root tips suggesting a role in the partner communication. Laccaria bicolor is lacking enzymes involved in the degradation of plant cell wall components (cellulose, hemicellulose, pectins and pectates), preventing the symbiont from degrading host cells during the root colonisation. By contrast, Laccaria bicolor possesses expanded multigene families associated with hydrolysis of bacterial and microfauna polysaccharides and proteins. This genome analysis revealed the dual saprotrophic and biotrophic lifestyle of the mycorrhizal fungus that enables it to grow within both soil and living plant roots.
Yodaweed
Well-Known Member
You want both ecto and endo myco's. More colonization of roots and different types of fungi produce different fungus webs to the roots which in turn have different cellular structures. If you only use 1 type you are really missing out, in nature its not just 1 type of mycos, its a huge variety. The tricoderma they use in that only makes the two species of mycos grow faster, bigger and stronger 
Different species of fungus break down different types of stuff, like I said earlier you should use Azos first, since it helps break down nitrogen, the extreme mykos basically just helps your roots only, to grow bigger, stronger, more sponge like. Different types of bacteria have different functions, that's why its super important to have a diverse population.
Different species of fungus break down different types of stuff, like I said earlier you should use Azos first, since it helps break down nitrogen, the extreme mykos basically just helps your roots only, to grow bigger, stronger, more sponge like. Different types of bacteria have different functions, that's why its super important to have a diverse population.