WTF causes leaves to look like this? Fungal infection??

BongerChonger

BongerChonger

Well-Known Member
lildogbyte said:
These symptoms appear all over the plant and appeared literally over night. Entire leaves. There were already symptoms of other issues present.
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Had you done anything just beforehand, watered, fed, anything?
Usually when something happens that fast it's our own input, something we've recently done.
lildogbyte said:
I have a third plant of the same variety growing in ‘succulent potting mix’ i got from my backyard, in a closet that is doing waaaayy better than these plants that are in pride lands premium shi. All three plants have received same treatment. Only difference is the medium.
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Could be something there, succulent mix would have better drainage, generally.
lildogbyte said:
I feel that we’re watering too much, my partner thinks too little.
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Describe how you've been watering.
Pot should be a lot lighter before needing water again, and should be watered until some runoff. Shouldn't be dry to the point of plant wilt, but it should be fairly dry. Pot should be a lot lighter.
What size are your pots?
How often are they getting watered?
Watering until runoff?
lildogbyte said:
Back to the point though, when I went to take pictures, these babbages were leaking and it’s been a good few days since they were watered,
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What do you mean?
lildogbyte said:
so I’m seriously gonna take tstick’s advice and do a slurry test.
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Good idea I think, cross it off the list.
 
lildogbyte

lildogbyte

Member
Rocket Soul said:
With led plants I generally try to steer people away from any "nutes in the soil" approaches and towards inert media with bottles.

With leds since they do not force the plants to transpire the same way as "hot lights" (sun, bulbs, flouro tubes; no real heat on the leaves) its usually required to match environment (temps/rh) to nute levels cause what the plant receives depends on how much it is able to transpire: you kinda need to match how strong the "juice" is to how much the plant is drinking to get it right. Nute bottles and no/low nutes in the media is your friend here usually. Not sure if and how much of this applies here or if im preaching to the choir and you already know this, i wanna be more conscious how i come across :) i remember i video from everest fernandez having a video demonstrating how this type of problem, transpiration based over feeding, could express itself but i cannot quite remember which one but it should be able to be dug out from youtubing fernandez VPD. Vapour pressure deficit is a concept that is very important for growing with leds but also in general for understanding plants. With hotlights this thing with transpiration tends to be less fickle and just breeze along a bit better.
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I definitely need to dial in the VPD. It's been on the top of my to-do list since before we started. I know we could have waited a little longer to start, but I was eager to get any experience I could. Plus these autos have an alright turn around time. If these were photoperiods I had been growing for a whole season I'd have made sure everything was perfect first.

Rocket Soul said:
The plant has some burnt leaf tips that indicate over feeding on nutes. Its kind of all over the plant. This could be all of the sudden you had over transpiration (im thinking the fan; its the same as putting a fan on your drying clothes rack, it dries it out and in the case of a plant gets it drinking more, was there no air movement before?) or that the nutes just recently became available (less probable since you said over night). Maybe both at the same time. Sometimes this type of "transpiration overfeeding" happens on top of the plant where its closer to the light (hotter and drier) youll see those burnt tips on the top leaves. I your case these burnt tips are all over all of a sudden over night. If the plant was doing well before it may have been that it was dialed in and more drinking pushed it into a too much nutes situation.
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I'm aware of the burnt tips, and I think that it may be cus of the terp tea since all of my plants display it the same way. Pretty much the only thing that appeared overnight was the splotchy yellow appearance, and the shriveling despite them still being moist. It doesn't look likes any examples of chlorosis caused by deficiency that I can find. It's yellow, but not in the same way as my other plant which is also having chlorosis on its lower leaves and looks like a classic symptom of magnesium deficiency.

I should clarify that when I said the plants looked fine, I meant that despite some signs of deficiency, they seemed vigorous and were able to support themselves, but the morning I posted this, I found that an alarming number of leaves had a gross 'highlighter yellow' appearance and that the branches were drooping. They had just been watered the night before.


Rocket Soul said:
Oh yes, on waterings; its usually the case that the less water guy is correct if unsure but its pointless to generalize in a specific situation.
"Hot lights" are much easier to see, when its low on water the leaves start to sagg from the bottom and the goes upwards. Some leaves far down pointing down completely (petiole may still be erect) is a dead sure way to know its watering time. With leds with low transpiration, visualized by lacking "leaf boner" and "praying" leaves, the point of "water now" maybe trickier to catch. But in pics the plant dont look so saggy, tricky call. Normally the "lift the pot and water when the pots seems a fair bit lighter" applies. Again, dont know your experience level just wanna cover some bases since you and partner arent in agreement (but seems like youd be likely to be right, not sure what the leaking babbages thing meant but sounds like they are quite wet . Over watering could be the cause of chlorosis due to overly wet roots, i cant remember if it was related to lack of iron uptake. Could well be several issues at same time so again, you pose a tricky problem and not surprised if this all looks strange to you; it does to me aswell.

Keep posting pics of how this progress and we see how its going, all the best:)
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I usually check for lack of leaf boner, stick my finger to the second knuckle in the soil, and then lift the pot to see if it's thirsty. "babbages" is just what "bad b*itches" sounds like if you slur it. They may have been overwatered. I'm not sure they're taking up water very well.
 
lildogbyte

lildogbyte

Member
BongerChonger said:
Had you done anything just beforehand, watered, fed, anything?
Usually when something happens that fast it's our own input, something we've recently done.

Could be something there, succulent mix would have better drainage, generally.

Describe how you've been watering.
Pot should be a lot lighter before needing water again, and should be watered until some runoff. Shouldn't be dry to the point of plant wilt, but it should be fairly dry. Pot should be a lot lighter.
What size are your pots?
How often are they getting watered?
Watering until runoff?

What do you mean?

Good idea I think, cross it off the list.
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They were watered the night before.

I mentioned in another reply, but my partner is the one mainly watering them. The pots are 5 gallon pots, I think. The closet plant is in a 7 gallon pot maybe. I personally water as often as the top layer of soil is dry and the pot a little too easy to pick up. It's all a learning experience. I don't typically water til runoff, no.

I was saying that despite not being watered for a few days, the soil had retained some water, which seemed to insinuate to me that the plants were not effectively drawing the water up, as they get 750-1000mL per watering.
 
BongerChonger

BongerChonger

Well-Known Member
lildogbyte said:
They were watered the night before.

I mentioned in another reply, but my partner is the one mainly watering them. The pots are 5 gallon pots, I think. The closet plant is in a 7 gallon pot maybe. I personally water as often as the top layer of soil is dry and the pot a little too easy to pick up. It's all a learning experience. I don't typically water til runoff, no.

I was saying that despite not being watered for a few days, the soil had retained some water, which seemed to insinuate to me that the plants were not effectively drawing the water up, as they get 750-1000mL per watering.
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Sorry, I've read through the thread, but missed the said reply, my bad.
I think you're/your partner is overwatering myself. Seems more and more like it.
Chronic overwatering.
lildogbyte said:
I personally water as often as the top layer of soil is dry and the pot a little too easy to pick up. It's all a learning experience. I don't typically water til runoff, no.
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I recommend watering to runoff. Better ensures proper soil saturation and leaches unwanted silts or dissolved solids.
Soil should be properly saturated, then left to dry sufficiently.
How's your partner watering?
750-1000mL to reach saturation in a 5 gallon pot doesn't seem right at all. Sounds like you need to back right off the water if that's all it's taking.
If you didn't add more drainage like perlite to your soil that's telling too. It's always a good idea to add more, even if there's some perlite already.

Truthfully, the photos don't point to overwatering. But the pot size and the description of the way they're getting watered does.
Plus, there was a bunch of leaf loss the day after watering.

Do slurry test the pH of your soil.
Low pH + wet soil will do all sorts, including leaf loss, root rot, further acidification etc.

Upon next watering, water thoroughly until you see some runoff.
If after a few days your soil's still damp, give it a couple more days before watering again.

Next-time, add more drainage and aeration, such as perlite, even if there's some already.
You don't want to add so much you're having to water everyday. But you want to add enough there's no soggy spots after watering, free draining.
And if you plan to use nutes, use extra.
 
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Rocket Soul

Rocket Soul

Well-Known Member
lildogbyte said:
I definitely need to dial in the VPD. It's been on the top of my to-do list since before we started. I know we could have waited a little longer to start, but I was eager to get any experience I could. Plus these autos have an alright turn around time. If these were photoperiods I had been growing for a whole season I'd have made sure everything was perfect first.



I'm aware of the burnt tips, and I think that it may be cus of the terp tea since all of my plants display it the same way. Pretty much the only thing that appeared overnight was the splotchy yellow appearance, and the shriveling despite them still being moist. It doesn't look likes any examples of chlorosis caused by deficiency that I can find. It's yellow, but not in the same way as my other plant which is also having chlorosis on its lower leaves and looks like a classic symptom of magnesium deficiency.

I should clarify that when I said the plants looked fine, I meant that despite some signs of deficiency, they seemed vigorous and were able to support themselves, but the morning I posted this, I found that an alarming number of leaves had a gross 'highlighter yellow' appearance and that the branches were drooping. They had just been watered the night before.




I usually check for lack of leaf boner, stick my finger to the second knuckle in the soil, and then lift the pot to see if it's thirsty. "babbages" is just what "bad b*itches" sounds like if you slur it. They may have been overwatered. I'm not sure they're taking up water very well.
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If you feel that they arent drinking, generally bitchy and non compliant and that its all down to low water uptake a little easy trick with little investment involved is to hang a incandescent bulb to gain back that little heat on the leaf action. But low wattage or on a dimmer, incandescent tend to cause stretch. Maybe using on a timer for just a section of midday. This will only get more complicated as winter brings less heat.

I agree on magnesium, but then how the burnt tips? Its like you say quite a mystery. Both deficient and over fed looking. But generally getting transpiration right is the tide that lifts all ships. Maybe slurry could tell us more. We solved some Mg def tendencies by upping ph tiny bit but were in coco so different story. Maybe ph lockout for def look part and general hot nutey pot for the rest?

The terp tea preceded the leaf problem or was fan there first? Same day?
 
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lildogbyte

lildogbyte

Member
BongerChonger said:
Sorry, I've read through the thread, but missed the said reply, my bad.
I think you're/your partner is overwatering myself. Seems more and more like it.
Chronic overwatering.

I recommend watering to runoff. Better ensures proper soil saturation and leaches unwanted silts or dissolved solids.
Soil should be properly saturated, then left to dry sufficiently.
How's your partner watering?
750-1000mL to reach saturation in a 5 gallon pot doesn't seem right at all. Sounds like you need to back right off the water if that's all it's taking.
If you didn't add more drainage like perlite to your soil that's telling too. It's always a good idea to add more, even if there's some perlite already.
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10-4 on the watering til runoff. I asked how my partner checks if the plants need water, and it’s the same as me sans feeling the weight difference. For giving them water it’s the same as me. Slowly, watering a little at a time so the soil mix actually soaks it up, in a spiral pattern covering as much area as possible by the end. I wasn’t watching last time, so I don’t know how much they got.

I wanted to add perlite to avoid this exact ordeal.. The grow shop I went to, the owner assured me I didn’t need to add anything to this soil mix, except a bit of the terp tea after a few weeks. I trusted it even though I wanted to add some because I came in with a whole list of things to buy from him and he coulda sold nearly all of it to me then and there, but he gave me recommendations based on my setup. All that to say I agree with you on that front.
 
lildogbyte

lildogbyte

Member
Rocket Soul said:
If you feel that they arent drinking, generally bitchy and non compliant and that its all down to low water uptake a little easy trick with little investment involved is to hang a incandescent bulb to gain back that little heat on the leaf action. But low wattage or on a dimmer, incandescent tend to cause stretch. Maybe using on a timer for just a section of midday. This will only get more complicated as winter brings less heat.

I agree on magnesium, but then how the burnt tips? Its like you say quite a mystery. Both deficient and over fed looking. But generally getting transpiration right is the tide that lifts all ships. Maybe slurry could tell us more. We solved some Mg def tendencies by upping ph tiny bit but were in coco so different story. Maybe ph lockout for def look part and general hot nutey pot for the rest?

The terp tea preceded the leaf problem or was fan there first? Same day?
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The burnt tips have been there for a minute, so yea maybe pH fluctuations until it got to a point the macronutrients are no longer able to be absorbed in the plant?

The terp tea was added amended into soil on September 7th. Looking back on those pics I see that the burnt tips came after, probably once the fertilizer started kicking in. The fan was added last weekend I think. The leaf problem just appeared the morning after they last got watered. For the last couple weeks there were a few weird looking leaves here and there at the bottom, and based on their appearance and examples online, I chalked it up to some sort of weird infection. Then all of a sudden it reappears but way crazier looking and throughout the whole plant.
 
BongerChonger

BongerChonger

Well-Known Member
lildogbyte said:
10-4 on the watering til runoff.
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Not much, just a good trickle out the pot. More if using nutes.
lildogbyte said:
I wanted to add perlite to avoid this exact ordeal..
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I don't know for sure. Photos don't scream overwatering. But things like leaf loss day after water and the amount of water you're giving vs pot size do. Said it yourself, think it might be overwatering. If you think you are, then you probably are.
If your pH checks out, then I'm all in.

I think the bottom half or 3rd in your pot might be staying a bit soggy or damp and you're watering too often.
If you're using your finger as a guide and you're getting moisture on your finger first few inches of soil, it's too early to water, give it a little longer.
If you're going by pot weight, pot should be significantly lighter. 5 gallon pot of soil should easily take more water than 750 - 1000mL before reaching saturation, I think. There should be a noticeable difference in weight.
It's better to let the soil dry for longer and water thoroughly when you do, than watering little bits at a time more often.
 
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