yellowing with brown spots...AGAIN

?!?!?!? what's the fucking deal?! This is the third batch that has been having the same problem. I have been trying to correct every possible problem I thought it could be. I thought it was my soil, so I switched to fox farms happy frog with perlite (2:1 ratio). I thought it was my tap water so I switched to RO only. I thought it was a calcium or magnesium deficiency so I got some cal-mag. I thought it was pot size so I switched to larger pots. I thought it was pH so I got a meter and started phing my water. Same problems

Here is the set up:

soil: fox farms happy frog + perlite (2:1)
water: RO from meijer
pot size: 3 gallon
light: 400 watt hps
nutes: cal-mag and botanicare pro bloom 1-4-5

10-21-10 I planted them from 1 gallon pots to 3 gallon pots and moved them to 12/12. They looked healthy as shit.

10-26-10 mixed 1ml pro bloom + 3/4 ml of cal-mag with half spray bottle (250 ml) RO. Sprayed on leaves liberally. Seemed to adversely affect them. I think it was too strong, but they recovered and did fine.

10-28-10 watered with 1 Liter of flower RO (5 ml pro bloom + 5 ml of cal-mag per gallon of RO). Watered with 1/2 L of plain RO.

11-4-10 watered with 2 L of RO with 5ml cal-mag per gallong

11-8-10 watered with 1/2 L plain RO

11-10-10 watered with approx 1 L RO water first then approx 1 L of 5 ml cal-mag+ 5 ml pro bloom + 9 granules fast acting calcium/gallon RO

At this point I was starting to notice the same problems as the last grow and suspected low pH was the problem so I got a ph meter and some ph up.

11-16-10 watered with half gallon of 5ml cal-mag + 5 ml pro bloom + 1 ml ph up per gallon. pH = 6.5

11-24-10 watered with half gallon of 5ml cal-mag + 10 ml pro bloom + 3 ml ph up per gallon. pH = 6.5

The problem worsened so I thought a flush would be good. It wasn't, the problem worsened, hence this thread.

11-28-10 flush with 3 gal tap water. Then 1/2 gal RO with 5 ml cal-mag/gal. ph=6.5

I have 2 different strains, both are having the same problems.

This is strain "H"





This is strain "E". This one isn't as crispy, but is having similar problems. It's also tipping over under its own weight.





And for comparison here is strain "H" that had the EXACT same schedule up through 11-27-10, but was in miracle grow moisture soil instead of happy frog. I watered with 1 gal RO with 5 ml cal-mag + 5ml pro bloom/gal. ph=6.5 instead of flushing on 11-28-10.



They are all at 6 weeks (42 days)

BTW the recommended dosage for cal-mag is 5 ml per gallon. Recommended dosage of pro bloom is 15 mL per gallon. I've been using 1/3 strength of pro bloom. I was afraid to burn them, but they look burnt and crispy anyway. Or is this a deficiency?!

OMG. You might want to double check your PH with a different tester. I dont know what you are testing with but with that much going on with your plants my first guess would be PH. And I learned that you have to use CalMag very sparingly. It is super easy to over do it with that stuff.

assasinofyouth420 said:

OMG. You might want to double check your PH with a different tester. I dont know what you are testing with but with that much going on with your plants my first guess would be PH. And I learned that you have to use CalMag very sparingly. It is super easy to over do it with that stuff.

Click to expand...

I ordered a cheap pen type pH meter for $15 from hong kong and checked all my pH values. I used the 2 packets of calibration mix to make a solution to calibrate it. It was pretty dead on. The meter ended up breaking after only a couple weeks. I then ordered an "oakton eco testr ph2". It came factory calibrated and agreed with all the readings of the previous meter, which also agreed with some ph strips, thought the ph strips i have arent that accurate. The new meter is bang on with some GH 7.00 calibration solution.

pH of my RO = 5.9-6.0
pH of my tap water = 7.6
pH of RO with 5ml cal-mag/gal RO = 5.9-6.0
pH of RO with 5ml cal-mag + 5ml pro bloom/gal RO = 3.4

I have been upping the ph to 6.5 for every watering since 11-10-10. I did not pH the tap water before the flush a few days ago; I didn't even measure it because I just wanted it to leech out anything residual in there and pass through.

So the only difference between the burnt and unburnt "H" plants is that 1 is in MG soil and the other is Happy Frog?

Obviously I would ditch the Happy Frog man. That MG plant looks great

guy incognito said:

I ordered a cheap pen type pH meter for $15 from hong kong and checked all my pH values. I used the 2 packets of calibration mix to make a solution to calibrate it. It was pretty dead on. The meter ended up breaking after only a couple weeks. I then ordered an "oakton eco testr ph2". It came factory calibrated and agreed with all the readings of the previous meter, which also agreed with some ph strips, thought the ph strips i have arent that accurate. The new meter is bang on with some GH 7.00 calibration solution.

pH of my RO = 5.9-6.0
pH of my tap water = 7.6
pH of RO with 5ml cal-mag/gal RO = 5.9-6.0
pH of RO with 5ml cal-mag + 5ml pro bloom/gal RO = 3.4

I have been upping the ph to 6.5 for every watering since 11-10-10. I did not pH the tap water before the flush a few days ago; I didn't even measure it because I just wanted it to leech out anything residual in there and pass through.

Click to expand...

Damn I dont know. Wish I could be more help.

hello man,

have you checked for bugs it looks like a terrable mite infestation I had that same problem on a plant it looked exactly the same

ColoradoLove said:

So the only difference between the burnt and unburnt "H" plants is that 1 is in MG soil and the other is Happy Frog?

Obviously I would ditch the Happy Frog man. That MG plant looks great

Click to expand...

Yes. I plan to use the miracle grow moisture control from now on and follow the exact same schedule for the next grow since it's working so well. Fuck this happy frog.

I am positive there are no bugs either. I have a hot shot no-pest strip hanging next to the plants, and I have scoured them. I had a spider mite infestation over the summer, but that has been taken care of and I haven't seen a mite, or a mite egg in several months. This damage looks qualitatively different than the spider mite damage I had too.

This may help..... http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688

Anyone else?

flushing with un-ph'd tap water may be your problem. what's the PPM of your nutrient solution? how bout the tap water? take sir rance alot's advice and check that thread out...one of my bookmarks on my grow room imac.

The problem was there before I ever flushed. It was the reason for the flush. I didn't ph the tap water because I wanted it to just flush everything in the soil out, and drain itself out. I followed up with some pH RO water.

No idea on the ppm of anything, no ppm meter. I don't know if the tap water ppm is even that important as this was the first time these girls saw tap water and I had the problem before that.

depends where you live. southern nevada tap water will crisp plants overnight. how much cal mag are you using? i've never gone more than 300 ppm, which rounds out to about 1.4mL per L. i have used that stuff as well (my friend is the shipping/recieving manager for said company) are you using hydroplex too? getting a PPM meter might help your situation. just to know the concentration of each product as you add it to your water. then when somethings wrong, you usually will be able to derive an answer by studying your guaranteed analysis.

I'm a newb, but could that be heat/light stress? I have a few areas similiar to urs where i have a bit of foilage near my cfls, and it doesn't burn, it just browns up similiar to urs.

Just a thought.

You have two infections: First you have a bad case of Septoria, mold that is in your glowing area and works it's way through the root system, to the stocks, and in to your leaves. They are expressed with black spots on the leaves as they spore for future infections to seed your home for all future grows, och! Second, you have grey/black mold inside the plant too, from what it looks like, but this may not be totally blooming with the dusty fungus spores as you have such a bad case of septoria that your leaves are dying off too soon for them, but if you are able to keep the crop alive, you might see it if the humidity levels get high enough...

Ok, that said it is not the end of the world, but your crops are screwed for now. You have to treat everything with hydrogen peroxide, switch to a new grow of hardy mold resistant strain, you will not be growing hazes for awhile, think church. You need to set up a UV light in both the hydro system, get at pet store for fish tanks, UV light in grow area for air born spores inside the grow area. GE florescent bulds 36 watts 48" long (germicidal will damage DNA of humans and you can not get exposed, they cause skin cancer). Bulbs are $70 each GE G36T8 goes in a cheap 48" T8 fixture, and you treat area when lights are on each day for three cycles of 10 min on, 30 min off, no longer per day or you hurt plants. Toss all cuttings, mothers, and treat seeds with hydrogen peroxide too. You need to use a fungicidal spray, coper sulfate, get some sulfer candles and treat all fans and grow area, wash everything with bleach, rinse with hot hot water, then clean everything with hydrogen peroxide again. You can treat outer areas of growing areas with germicidal light too. This is a war you are in and to win you have to control it, and now that you have it the war will be difficult. Many people get so frustrated with this that they give up growing. Septoria Canabis was engineered by the FDA for the war on drugs and it targets canabis specifically, but septoria is in many crops now, but the canabis strain was developed for the war on drugs to wipe out the home grown crops by seeding the spores into equipment and supplies sold to the general public. The spores are now everywhere, thanks to the Ronald, now it's being leagalized and stands to be a big tax producer, opps! No doubt, from what I have seen, you got a real bad case of it too. You let this go way too long. Wow that must be frustrating. Like banging your head into the nails to build a house. Spend some money and get some good UV lights.

Oh, you really should stop growing with soil and use something like sure to grow inserts to really assure you can help control this. The hydrogen peroxide is add to your nutrients too, and you can flush with it too, but it is not a long term solution. The flush with tap water will help in the veg stages as veg growth can out pace progression from lower to upper areas of plants especially if you used tap water that has high, or low, out of range pH. A high pH is actually one of the treatments for septoria. You also have chlorine in most tap waters which helps to kill off spores when transported through the lower part of the plants, but as the disease progresses up the stock it is harder to treat the plants with internal chlorine as it is removed in lower levels of your plants transport system. So, coper sulfate, sulfer burner, uv light, hydrogen peroxide, and stronger more resistant plants after a though cleansing of everything.

Hmm. That could explain whey everything was done by the book and i'm still getting problems.

It's NOT heat.
It's NOT light burn.
It's NOT spider mites.
It's NOT pH.

I am almost 100% it's also NOT contaminants in the water (happened with tap water, then happened with subsequent crops after switching RO), it's NOT nute burn (I have been under recommended dosages), it's NOT deficiency (I have everything covered I think).

I am very hesitant to throw all my plants out and start fresh. Especially since you are the only one in all the threads i've posted and read that suggests this. It looks like you may have nailed it though.

+rep for the help. I would love others to chime in given the new evidence.

After more research it is for sure septoria. There seems to be a lack of information about this on this site.

Is copper safe to use this late in flowering? I am currently 46 days into flowering.

How much peroxide do I add to the water?

I read that you can't cure septoria. you just have to remove the leaves that have the fungus/disease and prevent/reduce it. good luck!

guy incognito said:

I ordered a cheap pen type pH meter for $15 from hong kong and checked all my pH values. I used the 2 packets of calibration mix to make a solution to calibrate it. It was pretty dead on. The meter ended up breaking after only a couple weeks. I then ordered an "oakton eco testr ph2". It came factory calibrated and agreed with all the readings of the previous meter, which also agreed with some ph strips, thought the ph strips i have arent that accurate. The new meter is bang on with some GH 7.00 calibration solution.

pH of my RO = 5.9-6.0
pH of my tap water = 7.6
pH of RO with 5ml cal-mag/gal RO = 5.9-6.0
pH of RO with 5ml cal-mag + 5ml pro bloom/gal RO = 3.4

I have been upping the ph to 6.5 for every watering since 11-10-10. I did not pH the tap water before the flush a few days ago; I didn't even measure it because I just wanted it to leech out anything residual in there and pass through.

Click to expand...

its a ph prob for sure.your meter is crap, a decent one is about $70 and factory calibrated in hong kong ...please!!.
invest in a good one and u can fix this problem once and for all.

Two Words, Quantum Growth. Give it a try works on late blight in tomatoes and snowy mold on some cabbage I had in the outdoor garden. I not only produce my own smoke I grow all my veggies. Indoorman