well its a nice rosy picture you painted there, but the biggest reason other countries need dollars is so they can buy oil at the best prices. oil is priced in dollars and in other currencies there would be a carry trade and you would lose purchasing power. 3% may not seem like much, but when you purchase 1 trillion dollars of oil, 3% is still 30 billion. Its a big deal, but now even Japan has started to buy oil from Iran with Yen, in fact Iran is supplying no oil to users of dollars, mostly Euros and Yen. Think maybe thats one of the reasons we have surrounded that country with our military?
We are really screwed now!!
- Thread starter NoDrama
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TreesOfLife
Well-Known Member
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html
As if Things Weren't Bad Enough, Russian Professor Predicts End of U.S.
In Moscow, Igor Panarin's Forecasts Are All the Rage; America 'Disintegrates' in 2010
By ANDREW OSBORN
MOSCOW -- For a decade, Russian academic Igor Panarin has been predicting the U.S. will fall apart in 2010. For most of that time, he admits, few took his argument -- that an economic and moral collapse will trigger a civil war and the eventual breakup of the U.S. -- very seriously. Now he's found an eager audience: Russian state media.
Igor Panarin
In recent weeks, he's been interviewed as much as twice a day about his predictions. "It's a record," says Prof. Panarin. "But I think the attention is going to grow even stronger."
Prof. Panarin, 50 years old, is not a fringe figure. A former KGB analyst, he is dean of the Russian Foreign Ministry's academy for future diplomats. He is invited to Kremlin receptions, lectures students, publishes books, and appears in the media as an expert on U.S.-Russia relations.
But it's his bleak forecast for the U.S. that is music to the ears of the Kremlin, which in recent years has blamed Washington for everything from instability in the Middle East to the global financial crisis. Mr. Panarin's views also fit neatly with the Kremlin's narrative that Russia is returning to its rightful place on the world stage after the weakness of the 1990s, when many feared that the country would go economically and politically bankrupt and break into separate territories.
A polite and cheerful man with a buzz cut, Mr. Panarin insists he does not dislike Americans. But he warns that the outlook for them is dire.
"There's a 55-45% chance right now that disintegration will occur," he says. "One could rejoice in that process," he adds, poker-faced. "But if we're talking reasonably, it's not the best scenario -- for Russia." Though Russia would become more powerful on the global stage, he says, its economy would suffer because it currently depends heavily on the dollar and on trade with the U.S.
Mr. Panarin posits, in brief, that mass immigration, economic decline, and moral degradation will trigger a civil war next fall and the collapse of the dollar. Around the end of June 2010, or early July, he says, the U.S. will break into six pieces -- with Alaska reverting to Russian control.
In addition to increasing coverage in state media, which are tightly controlled by the Kremlin, Mr. Panarin's ideas are now being widely discussed among local experts. He presented his theory at a recent roundtable discussion at the Foreign Ministry. The country's top international relations school has hosted him as a keynote speaker. During an appearance on the state TV channel Rossiya, the station cut between his comments and TV footage of lines at soup kitchens and crowds of homeless people in the U.S. The professor has also been featured on the Kremlin's English-language propaganda channel, Russia Today.
Mr. Panarin's apocalyptic vision "reflects a very pronounced degree of anti-Americanism in Russia today," says Vladimir Pozner, a prominent TV journalist in Russia. "It's much stronger than it was in the Soviet Union."
Mr. Pozner and other Russian commentators and experts on the U.S. dismiss Mr. Panarin's predictions. "Crazy ideas are not usually discussed by serious people," says Sergei Rogov, director of the government-run Institute for U.S. and Canadian Studies, who thinks Mr. Panarin's theories don't hold water.
Mr. Panarin's résumé includes many years in the Soviet KGB, an experience shared by other top Russian officials. His office, in downtown Moscow, shows his national pride, with pennants on the wall bearing the emblem of the FSB, the KGB's successor agency. It is also full of statuettes of eagles; a double-headed eagle was the symbol of czarist Russia.
The professor says he began his career in the KGB in 1976. In post-Soviet Russia, he got a doctorate in political science, studied U.S. economics, and worked for FAPSI, then the Russian equivalent of the U.S. National Security Agency. He says he did strategy forecasts for then-President Boris Yeltsin, adding that the details are "classified."
In September 1998, he attended a conference in Linz, Austria, devoted to information warfare, the use of data to get an edge over a rival. It was there, in front of 400 fellow delegates, that he first presented his theory about the collapse of the U.S. in 2010.
"When I pushed the button on my computer and the map of the United States disintegrated, hundreds of people cried out in surprise," he remembers. He says most in the audience were skeptical. "They didn't believe me."
At the end of the presentation, he says many delegates asked him to autograph copies of the map showing a dismembered U.S.
He based the forecast on classified data supplied to him by FAPSI analysts, he says. He predicts that economic, financial and demographic trends will provoke a political and social crisis in the U.S. When the going gets tough, he says, wealthier states will withhold funds from the federal government and effectively secede from the union. Social unrest up to and including a civil war will follow. The U.S. will then split along ethnic lines, and foreign powers will move in.
California will form the nucleus of what he calls "The Californian Republic," and will be part of China or under Chinese influence. Texas will be the heart of "The Texas Republic," a cluster of states that will go to Mexico or fall under Mexican influence. Washington, D.C., and New York will be part of an "Atlantic America" that may join the European Union. Canada will grab a group of Northern states Prof. Panarin calls "The Central North American Republic." Hawaii, he suggests, will be a protectorate of Japan or China, and Alaska will be subsumed into Russia.
"It would be reasonable for Russia to lay claim to Alaska; it was part of the Russian Empire for a long time." A framed satellite image of the Bering Strait that separates Alaska from Russia like a thread hangs from his office wall. "It's not there for no reason," he says with a sly grin.
Interest in his forecast revived this fall when he published an article in Izvestia, one of Russia's biggest national dailies. In it, he reiterated his theory, called U.S. foreign debt "a pyramid scheme," and predicted China and Russia would usurp Washington's role as a global financial regulator.
Americans hope President-elect Barack Obama "can work miracles," he wrote. "But when spring comes, it will be clear that there are no miracles."
The article prompted a question about the White House's reaction to Prof. Panarin's forecast at a December news conference. "I'll have to decline to comment," spokeswoman Dana Perino said amid much laughter.
For Prof. Panarin, Ms. Perino's response was significant. "The way the answer was phrased was an indication that my views are being listened to very carefully," he says.
The professor says he's convinced that people are taking his theory more seriously. People like him have forecast similar cataclysms before, he says, and been right. He cites French political scientist Emmanuel Todd. Mr. Todd is famous for having rightly forecast the demise of the Soviet Union -- 15 years beforehand. "When he forecast the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1976, people laughed at him," says Prof. Panarin.
Write to Andrew Osborn at [email protected]
As if Things Weren't Bad Enough, Russian Professor Predicts End of U.S.
In Moscow, Igor Panarin's Forecasts Are All the Rage; America 'Disintegrates' in 2010
By ANDREW OSBORN
MOSCOW -- For a decade, Russian academic Igor Panarin has been predicting the U.S. will fall apart in 2010. For most of that time, he admits, few took his argument -- that an economic and moral collapse will trigger a civil war and the eventual breakup of the U.S. -- very seriously. Now he's found an eager audience: Russian state media.
In recent weeks, he's been interviewed as much as twice a day about his predictions. "It's a record," says Prof. Panarin. "But I think the attention is going to grow even stronger."
Prof. Panarin, 50 years old, is not a fringe figure. A former KGB analyst, he is dean of the Russian Foreign Ministry's academy for future diplomats. He is invited to Kremlin receptions, lectures students, publishes books, and appears in the media as an expert on U.S.-Russia relations.
But it's his bleak forecast for the U.S. that is music to the ears of the Kremlin, which in recent years has blamed Washington for everything from instability in the Middle East to the global financial crisis. Mr. Panarin's views also fit neatly with the Kremlin's narrative that Russia is returning to its rightful place on the world stage after the weakness of the 1990s, when many feared that the country would go economically and politically bankrupt and break into separate territories.
A polite and cheerful man with a buzz cut, Mr. Panarin insists he does not dislike Americans. But he warns that the outlook for them is dire.
"There's a 55-45% chance right now that disintegration will occur," he says. "One could rejoice in that process," he adds, poker-faced. "But if we're talking reasonably, it's not the best scenario -- for Russia." Though Russia would become more powerful on the global stage, he says, its economy would suffer because it currently depends heavily on the dollar and on trade with the U.S.
Mr. Panarin posits, in brief, that mass immigration, economic decline, and moral degradation will trigger a civil war next fall and the collapse of the dollar. Around the end of June 2010, or early July, he says, the U.S. will break into six pieces -- with Alaska reverting to Russian control.
In addition to increasing coverage in state media, which are tightly controlled by the Kremlin, Mr. Panarin's ideas are now being widely discussed among local experts. He presented his theory at a recent roundtable discussion at the Foreign Ministry. The country's top international relations school has hosted him as a keynote speaker. During an appearance on the state TV channel Rossiya, the station cut between his comments and TV footage of lines at soup kitchens and crowds of homeless people in the U.S. The professor has also been featured on the Kremlin's English-language propaganda channel, Russia Today.
Mr. Panarin's apocalyptic vision "reflects a very pronounced degree of anti-Americanism in Russia today," says Vladimir Pozner, a prominent TV journalist in Russia. "It's much stronger than it was in the Soviet Union."
Mr. Pozner and other Russian commentators and experts on the U.S. dismiss Mr. Panarin's predictions. "Crazy ideas are not usually discussed by serious people," says Sergei Rogov, director of the government-run Institute for U.S. and Canadian Studies, who thinks Mr. Panarin's theories don't hold water.
Mr. Panarin's résumé includes many years in the Soviet KGB, an experience shared by other top Russian officials. His office, in downtown Moscow, shows his national pride, with pennants on the wall bearing the emblem of the FSB, the KGB's successor agency. It is also full of statuettes of eagles; a double-headed eagle was the symbol of czarist Russia.
The professor says he began his career in the KGB in 1976. In post-Soviet Russia, he got a doctorate in political science, studied U.S. economics, and worked for FAPSI, then the Russian equivalent of the U.S. National Security Agency. He says he did strategy forecasts for then-President Boris Yeltsin, adding that the details are "classified."
In September 1998, he attended a conference in Linz, Austria, devoted to information warfare, the use of data to get an edge over a rival. It was there, in front of 400 fellow delegates, that he first presented his theory about the collapse of the U.S. in 2010.
"When I pushed the button on my computer and the map of the United States disintegrated, hundreds of people cried out in surprise," he remembers. He says most in the audience were skeptical. "They didn't believe me."
At the end of the presentation, he says many delegates asked him to autograph copies of the map showing a dismembered U.S.
He based the forecast on classified data supplied to him by FAPSI analysts, he says. He predicts that economic, financial and demographic trends will provoke a political and social crisis in the U.S. When the going gets tough, he says, wealthier states will withhold funds from the federal government and effectively secede from the union. Social unrest up to and including a civil war will follow. The U.S. will then split along ethnic lines, and foreign powers will move in.
California will form the nucleus of what he calls "The Californian Republic," and will be part of China or under Chinese influence. Texas will be the heart of "The Texas Republic," a cluster of states that will go to Mexico or fall under Mexican influence. Washington, D.C., and New York will be part of an "Atlantic America" that may join the European Union. Canada will grab a group of Northern states Prof. Panarin calls "The Central North American Republic." Hawaii, he suggests, will be a protectorate of Japan or China, and Alaska will be subsumed into Russia.
"It would be reasonable for Russia to lay claim to Alaska; it was part of the Russian Empire for a long time." A framed satellite image of the Bering Strait that separates Alaska from Russia like a thread hangs from his office wall. "It's not there for no reason," he says with a sly grin.
Interest in his forecast revived this fall when he published an article in Izvestia, one of Russia's biggest national dailies. In it, he reiterated his theory, called U.S. foreign debt "a pyramid scheme," and predicted China and Russia would usurp Washington's role as a global financial regulator.
Americans hope President-elect Barack Obama "can work miracles," he wrote. "But when spring comes, it will be clear that there are no miracles."
The article prompted a question about the White House's reaction to Prof. Panarin's forecast at a December news conference. "I'll have to decline to comment," spokeswoman Dana Perino said amid much laughter.
For Prof. Panarin, Ms. Perino's response was significant. "The way the answer was phrased was an indication that my views are being listened to very carefully," he says.
The professor says he's convinced that people are taking his theory more seriously. People like him have forecast similar cataclysms before, he says, and been right. He cites French political scientist Emmanuel Todd. Mr. Todd is famous for having rightly forecast the demise of the Soviet Union -- 15 years beforehand. "When he forecast the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1976, people laughed at him," says Prof. Panarin.
Write to Andrew Osborn at [email protected]
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
Is it possible sure, but I don't think that is likely. We are fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan right now so we would naturally have them surrounded with that. (I put the map for everyone, not implying you don't know the are, I wanted to double check what I was saying was right too)
But the grass is always greener. How many times have people thought that they could do something because it looks easy, only to realize that it is a pain in the ass.
They will try to cherry pick, and keep a forex with a few strategic nations, but to really dominate they will need to have a forex for every nation, which they are all a long way off from that.
And you are right another reason is that the Dollar is always so stable, which is due to the Feds actions and our power from having the main forex here.
i love how you start a thread stating "we are totally screwed", yet you have no idea what you are referring to.
Umm yeah I have a VERY good idea what we are up against, how you come up with this statement bothers me. You have no idea what it means when the Fed buys treasuries do you FDD?i love how you start a thread stating "we are totally screwed", yet you have no idea what you are referring to.
here, FDD, your a huge fan of YouTube, so ill just post this little tid bit so you can get on the same page as the rest of us.
[youtube]WA9Rm77rq-4[/youtube]
Is it possible sure, but I don't think that is likely. We are fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan right now so we would naturally have them surrounded with that. (I put the map for everyone, not implying you don't know the are, I wanted to double check what I was saying was right too)
But the grass is always greener. How many times have people thought that they could do something because it looks easy, only to realize that it is a pain in the ass.
They will try to cherry pick, and keep a forex with a few strategic nations, but to really dominate they will need to have a forex for every nation, which they are all a long way off from that.
And you are right another reason is that the Dollar is always so stable, which is due to the Feds actions and our power from having the main forex here.
We currently have bases or large military presence in Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq,Azerbaijan,Uzbekistan, Kuwait, United Arab Emirates and the Persian Gulf. By all means we have them totally surrounded! You can look that up, we share a base with the Russians in Turkmenistan also. We have totally dominated that culture with war for over a Decade straight. Before us were the Russians.
Afghanistan is going to be a bitch to win control, The Russians couldn't do it, neither could Alexander the Great. I don't see why are we even trying to, other than to get to Iran. Maybe the USA needs Heroine to fund covert ops I don't know. It is funny how Poppies are growing in Afghanistan again just as soon as troops hit the soil.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
Did you even watch that tool? Do you really actually KNOW what he is talking about.
This is the problem at its root. Lets talk about something else, Global Warming.
People will hear something and all of a sudden they KNOW all about it. They see charts that show temp changes, and then hear some inference about cutting down the jungle, and then they KNOW all about it. They can even point to some facts that prove the point they are trying to make.
But in reality they don't have any clue about the actual process to collect that data or what it means. They don't realize the processes that the temps were gotten, or how much actual difference the chemicals in the air actually matter, but they KNOW it matters.
It is the same with this and you. Here is a guy in a suit showing you facts and figures, a part of a testimony by Burnake that shows him saying that he is NOT going to monetize the debt, then shows a open market operation that has been going on for better part of the last 80 years. So now you KNOW that this is what is happening.
This is the problem at its root. Lets talk about something else, Global Warming.
People will hear something and all of a sudden they KNOW all about it. They see charts that show temp changes, and then hear some inference about cutting down the jungle, and then they KNOW all about it. They can even point to some facts that prove the point they are trying to make.
But in reality they don't have any clue about the actual process to collect that data or what it means. They don't realize the processes that the temps were gotten, or how much actual difference the chemicals in the air actually matter, but they KNOW it matters.
It is the same with this and you. Here is a guy in a suit showing you facts and figures, a part of a testimony by Burnake that shows him saying that he is NOT going to monetize the debt, then shows a open market operation that has been going on for better part of the last 80 years. So now you KNOW that this is what is happening.
Check out the origional dates that those bases were installed.
We shouldn't be worried about trying to control it. I really don't even think we need to be at war over there. I am all for winning the hearts and minds of people through humanity acts and not just thinking we need to kill them until they submit.
hom36rown
Well-Known Member
I think you are still missing my point. Yes, our companies outsource to China because the labor is cheap,(I'm not sure exactly why you are stating the obvious here), exactly...herein lies the problem, A major portion of our economy, especially our retail and wholesaling industries, have become DEPENDENT on foreign imports. Think about it, how else would we stock our shelves? If we were no longer allowed to run these enormous trade deficits that have now become essential to our economy, and were forced to dramatically reduce the amount of foreign goods that we consume, it would serve as a catastrophic blow to to our economy.
Architects and engineers are all well and good, but intangible and intellectual property don't fix trade deficits. Our service economy produces very few exportable services or 'goods', not nearly enough to compensate for all of the that tangible goods that we import. You say," The better jobs that we have don't need to produce something to be valuable to the world trade." Well obviously not everything has to produce something tangible to be valuable, and obviously not every job in our economy must produce something valuable to world trade...the problem, however, is that the US is not producing nearly enough exportable goods or services to compensate for our imports.(hence the trade deficit) The notion that service economy money-valued services are an acceptable substitute for goods because both makes money, ignores the distinction between money and wealth.
Our Asian investors will not continue to accept our (worthless) IOUs indefinitely. Think about it, China does all the heavy lifting...they live under their means, sacrifice and save...while we pay them with IOUs, that we eventually pay by selling more IOUs, or better yet with a printing press. They give us tangible goods, we give them pieces of paper with no intrinsic value. China, and our other investors will not continue to stockpile US dollars forever, especially when they are losing value every second because of our outrageous stimuls packages, and inflationary monetary policy. It is becoming increasingly clear, that not only do we not have the capacity to legitimately pay these debts back, but we also that we have no intention too. By legitimately pay them back, I mean doing so without a printing press. To actually legitimately pay our creditors back, we would, of course, have to drastically reduce consumption of foreign products.We would have to live under our means, sacrifice, and save...this of course, would bring about a badly need recession to correct the market...as our economy is based on consumption...and the government, of course, will not let this happen. Instead, they encourage just the opposite. Every time there is a recession, they urge us to go out and spend! Consumption is the problem, not the solution.
The Bretton Woods system is what has allowed us to continue this charade for so long, well, that and complacent central banks which operate with robotic bureacratic momentum. The fact that the dollar is used to settle foreign exchange accounts, and is used to trade in such valuable commodities such as oil and gold has behooved countries to create huge stockpiles of US dollars. Of course, when Bretton Woods was passed, the US was the pinnacle of economic strength, we were the largest manufacturing country in the world, the worlds largest creditor, and our currency was valued and exchangeable for gold. Now, none of this is true. We have gone to a mostly service based economy, we are the worlds lagest debtor, and our currency is worthless paper that we print trillions of on the slightest whim. You had better believe, that if the world reserve currency were to be switched to the Euro, the value of the dollar would plummit like a rock. China and OPEC would no longer accept our IOUs, which, as I already stated, would serve as a catastrophic blow to our economy. Furthermore, if they actually started spending their cache of stockpiled dollars, it would create a huge influx of inflation, on top of the inflation we will see from the stimulus packages. The result would be an inflationary depression.
The EU devalues it currency as well, but not nearly on the scale that the US has...and the EU actually produces many tangible goods. There has been talk for quite some time of OPEC switching its reserves to the Euro. China and a few other nations have actually pushed for a world currency( I can hear the conspiracy theorists now), this too would cripple the US economy.
I have the perfect analogy for our situation:
It was a question, a rhetorical one as evidenced by me not having enough time to make a great big post..you see the line that says I gotta go to work?thought it was a question. my apologize, spaz.
Look FDD its not that I mind you posting, but it sure would be nice if you would read the whole post, or at least try not to be so inflammatory all the time.
You don't Know who Karl Denninger is do you? You call him a tool, I call him a genuine economic and market genius.
Do you know when the last time the fed bought US securities was? Hmm? How about September 11, 2001. It is NOT a normal open market function, it almost never happens.
jrh72582
Well-Known Member
You think FDD is inflammatory? Amidst Cracker and his league of insulting, hate-ridden, know-it-all's, you think FDD is inflammatory. He's speaking for a lot of us who are quite disenfranchised by the take over of the cyber bullies.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
If it ever got to where we need to produce due to being more expensive to doing it elsewhere, or even if we needed it, we could without any issues. We have the capacity to do it, but it is just cheaper to buy the cheap goods.
Trade deficits are not always a bad thing.
We are not going to fix a deficit by producing junk, nor are we going to do it by producing stuff that is more expensive. We need the newer technologies and produce those for the world. And those are developed by the designers (architects, scientists, engineers).
People won't get on the solar panel kick and that would be a great place for us to excel and actually have something to produce. And once China starts to dominate with the same technology at a reduced price, we need to move onto the next thing.
We are too rooted into not changing. America has historically been a place of invention, but people have been so resistant to it that we cannot progress anywhere other than pharm.
That is why other places that work with things like stem cell research are starting to outpace our science, because people here get this religious craw about it.
Solar, wind, geothermal, hybrid get pushed aside since they don't want to side with the people that think global climate change is happening.
We need to wake up as a nation. We are not going to get rich by producing more outdated cars, toys, cloths, or tvs. We will only do it through new technologies.
America is not devaluing the dollar. It is actually gaining in value because foreigners are grabbing them up over their own. It has been the most stable throughout this world financial crisis. The banking industry is one of our strongest tools so to crap on it is wrong. They do do things wrong, but they are a very valuable world commodity.
At least Cracker will debate the post. FDD just tends to post a Youtube vid of some rock video or some baby crying. Neither of which have any relation to the topic at hand. Now its different when it comes to giving advice about growing weed, hes like a god to me, but here in the politics section he just pretty much trolls.
Who are the cyber bullies?
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
He does give some good point of views.
And the cyberbullies are the people that come in with no facts, and just cut and paste crap from other sites that are a joke. When they get disputed they don't look at the points that are being made and post more junk that doesn't pertain to the discussion that seems like a hope to derail the topic, or at least to move away from the very valid points that undermine what they are saying.
Similar to the healthcare issues. People keep saying how bad it is, and that its communism, or socialism, but not actually providing anything that is true. When I or others refute it, they simply ignore it and post some other crap or just say someone is a slave of Obamas.
hom36rown
Well-Known Member
*sigh*, ok we are on completely different pages. I am not saying that it will become more expensive to produce things elsewhere...I am saying, if China and our foreign investors stop buying our debt, we could therefor no longer run trade defecit...in which case, practically overnight, we would have to cut our imports in half...if you think we could make up for the loss, "without any issue," well then, you are dreaming. Trade defecits arent always a bad thing, but when you continue to run a trade defecit for decades, it is most definitely a bad thing. Loans aren't always a bad thing, if you use the loan as a capital investment, that will eventually yeild you more than you invested, it becomes a good thing, if you waste it all, it becomes a useless obligation. The latter is the reality for the US.
Yes, new technologies are great, and they could be a source of income for us...but information technology will never be so heavily relied upon from the US that it would make up for our enormous trade defecits. If we do not start producing our own tangible goods, then we cannot free our dependence on foreign imported goods. Keep in mind, CHina already has way more architects, scientist, and engineers than us.
If we did get on the solar panel kick, as you even stated yourself, China would begin to produce them for less, and we would be priced out of the market..again doing absolutely nothing to fix our deficits.
My beliefs are not rooted in 'not changing', they are rooted in sound economic pollicy.
Exactly, other countries are already excelling past the US in technology, yet you somehow expect it to be our saving grace.
I'm all for anything that helps us ween our dependence on foreign energy, so don't blame me.
I am not talking about geting rich, I am talking about actually paying our debt for all of beloved imports, such as...'cars, toys, clothes, or tv's'.
America IS devaluing the dollar. All this money creation IS devaluing the dollar...there is no arguing this.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
Buying/selling treasuries, adjusting rates, changing reserve requirements, are all different means to an end. After the September 11th attacks the financial markets where in a panic. And yes this did help to cause the bubble that we are dealing with now.
But more important is how we deal with the hole we are getting out of now in the next couple years. If we can get stable, and start to invest while everything is cheap as a country, America stands to gain a lot from this disaster. Callous, but true.
Some open market operations.
They had also made it that reserve requirements gain a bit of interest and that helps keep the banks from being too overstretched.
But more important is how we deal with the hole we are getting out of now in the next couple years. If we can get stable, and start to invest while everything is cheap as a country, America stands to gain a lot from this disaster. Callous, but true.
Some open market operations.
When a buy/sell is needed it is much bigger than adjusting rates since it is more powerful, while adjusting rates is a much smaller tool that can be easily changed if things start to go in the wrong direction.
They had also made it that reserve requirements gain a bit of interest and that helps keep the banks from being too overstretched.
People can be a genius, and still be a tool. Look at Paul Krugman, when he is talking economics he is usually spot on, but as soon as he starts to talk politics he comes off as an ass.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
We have enough bloat to adjust if they did cut out their investments with us. But they would be hurting themselves. They are not buying our stock because it is not worth it to them.
When I buy some CVS bonds, I don't look at it as a bad thing because I know I will get more money for those dollars in the future. You are right that if I was afraid that CVS was going to tank my money would not be safe. And with this last crisis that was tossed around. But we still was the best place to invest in.
And you are right when we put that money to good use it is the best. If it is wasted it is bad.
Not letting our banks, autos, and health systems to collapse is a good investment. Blowing it on stupid wars is a bad investment.
That is why what is happening now, even though it is more expensive is a good investment, while how we have been spending it since 9/11 is not been a good investment. Our economy is growing along with the amount of money people are investing in us since the 80's. Of course it is going to increase, because the return for those countries is better than anywhere else.
If they want to let us have their money to use to improve our country I am all for it.
The trade deficit is not a bad thing if we are growing. We need to improve our science and better educate our workforce so that we are always on the cutting edge.
Although China is working hard to get their education improving, we still have a more inventive and open to new ideas culture here in the states. But if we continue to become less intelligent as a country and stiffle new ideas we will be moved aside.
It would take a good decade to pass us, and at that point we would have had to move onto the next things. We need to have hundreds or thousands of new industries, not just a few. This way we can sell the technologies and really move even further ahead of the massive lead we already have.
Cool your one of the smart ones!!
They are not passing us, just gaining on our huge lead. We have a significant amount of time to change for the better, and develope the new technologies (Saw the other day someone is developping a artificial tree to cut pollution from cars, how cool is that). We just need to get the country behind it, and stop thinking that school is just a waste of time until they get a factory job.
No problem, sorry if it seemed like I was. I am just against stagnation.
Foreign investment into the country is not to blame with this. It is us, the people that need to realize that we need to be able to pay for the things that we buy (house excluded) and that we should only take out credit for things that grow in value faster than the interest that we borrow it for (like education)
No you are right in the short term, because we are in a deflationary setting and need to get that curbed. We need to keep the dollar constant, with a small amount on inflation to keep the wheels greased.
I say let them fail, if you leverage yourself 80 to 1 and your bets fall through, too frickin bad, you lose. The People will adapt and overcome, it is our greatest ability. Same with the autos, You don't see Honda and Toyota getting billions of tax dollars do you? They are hurting also no doubt, but at least they have enough to keep their heads above water. They did that by using sound financial practices and not going off the deep end and becoming financial institutions so they could participate in the huge MBS scam. Same with Ford, thankfully at least one US auto manufacturer will perhaps survive. I have no problem with my health care the way it is now, but I agree the costs are unnecessarily high, I doubt government will make it any better, they seem to screw everything up. Wars are stupid, I can't agree more. It seems for the last 100 years the US has been involved in some war somewhere almost every decade. The world has enough problems. Its no wonder some consider the USA the scourge of the earth.
what... huh?
Active Member
+ eleventy billion