Looks Like Torture is here to stay

ViRedd

New Member
We don't know because the government, and all of its agencies won't tell us.
It's like asking the DEA where its next big drugs bust is going to be.
They (CIA) have told us via congressional hearings. There have been three (3) enemy combatants waterboarded. That's it ... THREE .... and they were done shortly after 9-11. Want to know who they were and what role they played in the 9-11 attack, and prior to that, the attack on the USS Cole?

Like so many other things ... the waterboarding has been completly blown out of proportion by the Bush haters for political reasons.

Here's a link ... but there are plenty more:

The Blotter: Exclusive: Only Three Have Been Waterboarded by CIA


Vi
 

J - Dog

Well-Known Member
I don't have a problem with waterboarding.

It hurts, but its better than what could be done instead..

You want to live in a Perfect World!?
It ain't fukkin' happening.


So get used to it.
 

medicineman

New Member
They (CIA) have told us via congressional hearings. There have been three (3) enemy combatants waterboarded. That's it ... THREE .... and they were done shortly after 9-11. Want to know who they were and what role they played in the 9-11 attack, and prior to that, the attack on the USS Cole?

Like so many other things ... the waterboarding has been completly blown out of proportion by the Bush haters for political reasons.

Here's a link ... but there are plenty more:

The Blotter: Exclusive: Only Three Have Been Waterboarded by CIA


Vi
The only three admitted to! Do you actually believe the CIA, whose main job is to lie and decieve? what a dunce.
 

email468

Well-Known Member
The only three admitted to! Do you actually believe the CIA, whose main job is to lie and decieve? what a dunce.
I'm not sure calling someone a dunce for something you assume may not be the best way to get to the truth.

It is the perfect way to start another senseless argument however.
 

medicineman

New Member
I'm not sure calling someone a dunce for something you assume may not be the best way to get to the truth.

It is the perfect way to start another senseless argument however.
I actually thought about that before I said it and decided the feeling of relief it gave me was worth the risk. Actually his arguements are all dead end, Commie liberal lefty asshole kind of stuff.
 

ViRedd

New Member
I actually thought about that before I said it and decided the feeling of relief it gave me was worth the risk. Actually his arguements are all dead end, Commie liberal lefty asshole kind of stuff.
And your last two posts are so typical of you, Med.

When ever someone posts ideas that counter your agenda, you interject a personal attack in an attempt to move the thread off center. Usually, this works for the naive, but not for those with logical minds. Therefore, I will not counter your belligerent bullshit with a return attack.

Carry on ...

Vi
 

ViRedd

New Member
Now then ...

Who besides the CIA and President Bush knew of, and approved the waterboarding? Were any Democrats ... .say like Democrat Senators, Congressmen, the Leader of The House and other's involved?

What say you, Med?

Vi
 

ViRedd

New Member
From the Wall Stree Journal:

Waterboarding: Congress Knew

December 11, 2007; Page A26

After three days of screaming headlines about the CIA destroying videotapes in 2005 of the "harsh" interrogation of two terrorists, it now comes to light that in 2002 key members of Congress were fully briefed by the CIA about those interrogation techniques, including waterboarding. One member of that Congressional delegation was the future House Speaker, Nancy Pelosi.

The Washington Post on Sunday reported these series of briefings. While it is not our habit to promote the competition, readers should visit the Post's Web site and absorb this astonishing detail for themselves as reported by Joby Warrick and Dan Eggen in "Hill Briefed on Waterboarding in 2002: In meetings, spy panels' chiefs did not protest, officials say."

Porter Goss, the former chair of the House Intelligence Committee who later served as CIA director from 2004 to 2006 is explicit about what happened in these meetings: "Among those being briefed, there was a pretty full understanding of what the CIA was doing. And the reaction in the room was not just approval, but encouragement."

In all, the CIA provided Congress with some 30 briefings on waterboarding before it became a public issue.

Why would the CIA want to tell the most senior members of Congress about anything so sensitive? No doubt in part because senior officials at the CIA, not to mention the interrogators themselves, assuredly did not want to begin any such policy absent closing the political and legal loop on it.

The Congressional briefings touched the political base, and a Justice Department memo at that time deemed the interrogation methods legal. Most crucially, bear in mind that when pressed about all this at his confirmation hearings, Attorney General Michael Mukasey pointedly said he would not make a post-facto condemnation of the techniques, thereby putting the "freedom" of the interrogators at risk, "simply because I want to be congenial."

At the time, we wrote that this was a sign of Judge Mukasey's character. That word would not spring to mind in describing what the Post's account says about Congress.

One certainly may hold as abhorrent the idea of aggressively interrogating any terrorists ever, either for fear of what they might do to our people, as John McCain does, or because one thinks this violates our values. What one may not do -- at least not if one wants the system to function -- is assent to such a policy in 2002 and then, when the policy is made public, put up the pretense that one is "shocked" and appalled to learn of it.

This is bad faith. Worse, it risks setting in motion the ruin or eventual criminal prosecution of CIA employees who in 2002 did what the Bush Administration, Congress and indeed the nation wanted them to do to protect the American people from another September 11.

It has been widely reported by now that waterboarding was used on only three individuals -- Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who planned the airliner attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon; Abu Zebaydah, an Osama bin Laden confidante captured in Pakistan 2002 and described as a director of al-Qaeda operations; and a third unidentified person. If Speaker Pelosi and her colleagues want the handling of such terrorists conformed to what they call "our values," then she should define that and put it in an explicit piece of legislation. Then let the Members vote yea or nay, in public, on the record.

But don't sign off on such a sensitive policy at a moment when the nation's "values" support it, then later feign revulsion when you can't take the heat from the loudest in your political constituency. There was a time when politics at least assumed more backbone than that.
 

JohnnyBravo

Well-Known Member
With regard to torture, Ask yourself this question....If your daughter/son was missing and you had the guy that you knew was responsible tied up in an old abandoned wharehouse....And you had a Tazer gun or maybe his head locked in a vise....I would zap that Fuck, or squeeze his skull till it cracked....I would do it in a second, without remorse!!! Our Sons and daughters are in peril right now in Iraq and Afghanistan....Where do I sign up to volunteer as a water boarding specialist!!!!
 

email468

Well-Known Member
With regard to torture, Ask yourself this question....If your daughter/son was missing and you had the guy that you knew was responsible tied up in an old abandoned wharehouse....And you had a Tazer gun or maybe his head locked in a vise....I would zap that Fuck, or squeeze his skull till it cracked....I would do it in a second, without remorse!!! Our Sons and daughters are in peril right now in Iraq and Afghanistan....Where do I sign up to volunteer as a water boarding specialist!!!!
I understand what you are saying and no doubt a part of me feels exactly the way you do. Another part says, ask yourself this question - your daughter/son was missing and you had know idea where they were but they are being tortured for information they may or may not have. still supporting torture? I mean the war is not going to last forever and we'll still be OK with torture? where do we draw the line? many many questions and pretty scary answers.

in a perfect world we'd be absolutely certain the person doing the torturing knew what they were doing and the person being tortured actually had the information and would tell any other way - but why not just use Sodium thiopental or some other non-painful, non-torture so-called truth serum?
 

JohnnyBravo

Well-Known Member
I understand what you are saying and no doubt a part of me feels exactly the way you do. Another part says, ask yourself this question - your daughter/son was missing and you had know idea where they were but they are being tortured for information they may or may not have. still supporting torture? I mean the war is not going to last forever and we'll still be OK with torture? where do we draw the line? many many questions and pretty scary answers.

in a perfect world we'd be absolutely certain the person doing the torturing knew what they were doing and the person being tortured actually had the information and would tell any other way - but why not just use Sodium thiopental or some other non-painful, non-torture so-called truth serum?
My point is that I think that under certain circumstances, I would condone torture and would willingly participate in extracting information....However, I'm not a psycho...If sodium penthatol
 

JohnnyBravo

Well-Known Member
My point is that I think that under certain circumstances, I would condone torture and would willingly participate in extracting information....However, I'm not a psycho...If sodium penthatol was effective, I would use it. To simply outlaw quick forms of extracting info from someone because people can't stomach the gruesome details is exactly why we need govornment agencies like the CIA.
 

email468

Well-Known Member
My point is that I think that under certain circumstances, I would condone torture and would willingly participate in extracting information....However, I'm not a psycho...If sodium penthatol was effective, I would use it. To simply outlaw quick forms of extracting info from someone because people can't stomach the gruesome details is exactly why we need govornment agencies like the CIA.
I really do understand and I can see many circumstances where I would condone torture -- but I am ashamed to admit it. Since we are human and make mistakes, you'd have to ask yourself the following question: how many innocent people would it be OK to torture until we found the one with the information?

I have a very difficult time reconciling a country that was founded to be a beacon to liberty condoning torture. Seems we should have better ways to extract information and I seriously doubt the integrity of information obtained from torture.

This is my knee-jerk reaction without having done much investigation so I could be misunderstanding or not even considering large portions of the debate.
 

JohnnyBravo

Well-Known Member
Forms of torture I approve of: Look buddy we've wrapped your leg with pork chops. now tell us where Bin Laden is or we'll hold your leg in the lions cage!!!!
 

ViRedd

New Member
We don't need vises, blow torches or vise-grips. All we need is waterboarding. The three who were waterboarded gave up their information in 90 seconds or less without pain or ANY lasting trauma. However, now that the commie/libs, in their unending quest to discredit Bush, have disclosed exactly what waterboarding is. Therefore, those who are now subject to it know that they will not be drowned and that its a mental thing. Thanks libs! :finger:

Vi
 

LoudBlunts

Well-Known Member
without pain or ANY lasting trauma?

quoted from wikipedia

"Although waterboarding does not always cause lasting physical damage, it carries the risks of extreme pain, damage to the lungs, brain damage caused by oxygen deprivation, injuries (including broken bones) due to struggling against restraints, and even death.[4] The psychological effects on victims of waterboarding can last for years after the procedure.[5]"

Waterboarding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lets see how long you'd survive, Vi.
 

ViRedd

New Member
"Lets see how long you'd survive, Vi."

OK, your point is well taken. BUT as applied to the three terrorists, what were the long lasting effects?

And by the way ... Does the name Richard Pearle mean anything to ya? He could tell you all about torture.

Vi
 
Top