base nutrients grow

skunkushybrid01 said:

A plant's roots come into contact with nutrient ions in 3 different ways.... one is osmotic pressure, another is transpiration, where photosynthesis literally pulls the water up through the plant and the final way is when the roots grow and just bump into the ions. Several things need to take place before nutrients are accepted into the plant... for example a plant sends carriers down to pick up the ions, if a plant has enough of one nutrient then the plant will not send the carriers responsible for picking it up. this is of course once the ions have entered the roots. Befroe the ions even enter the roots they will need to also get past the plants suberin. suberin is created specifically to block any unwanted ions from getting in. a certain consistency of suberin will block the passage of N and K whilst allowing the passage of P. also plants can separate water from nutrient ions.

Plants take nutrients like they would from a buffet. This is why ratios do not matter... all that matters is that there are enough available ions. certain things can get into the plant, like heavy metals or in some cases certain poisons, but in respect of nutrients our only concern with heavy feeding is the salinity content of the medium, as it is this that slows the passage of K. when we talk about over fertilisation we are talking about the medium and not the plant. In a high saline medium this slows the passage of K and we see necrotic edges on the leaves. you may call it 'burning'... in fact over fertilisation causes a deficiency int he plant, not a toxicity.

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squarepush3r said:

ok, but if this is the case as you say, then couldn't you find a much lower priced nutrient than General Hydroponics Flora series base?

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skunkushybrid01 said:

I have no idea how this relates to the subject in question.

Yes I could find a cheaper one... i choose not to.

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squarepush3r said:

ok, so just testing your theory a little more, how do you explain nutrient overdose?

View attachment 1805969

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skunkushybrid01 said:

Plants take nutrients like they would from a buffet. This is why ratios do not matter... all that matters is that there are enough available ions.

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skunkushybrid01 said:

There is no such thing as over fertilising a plant. You can only over fertilise the medium. Most people get that part confused... they're told that plants can take toxic amounts of nutrients and that the symptroms of this are burning. Not quite right. What happens is that the medium gets salty, much saltier than you'll probably believe it needs to too, and this slows down K transport. So the plant starts to struggle to take K. the burning is actually necrosis caused by a K deficiency.

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slayer6669 said:

ok what i am wondering is if anyone onhere has ever done or read about doing 2 grows with all the same conditions except one grow you use nutrients with all the additive nutes and the other grow you just use the base nutrients. im just wandering how much of a diference it makes...

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homebrewer said:

If this was 100% correct, then feeding levels would not matter and there would be no difference between veg formulas (which emphasize nitrogen) and bloom formulas (which emphasize phosphorus and potassium). Even in flowering, the nutritional needs of the plant change from the first 3 weeks and the last 3 weeks.



I think you need to stop posting in this thread. Plants can absolutely take in more food than they need. Your incorrect 'hypothesis' that the medium is over fed and the plant is not can easily be proven false in a hydroton grow being fed at 3.0 EC.


An experienced and educated grower can tell whether a formula was intended to be used with 'boosters' or not. AN's 1-1-2 ratio is a poor flowering NPK ratio and said ratio yielded 25% less for me compared to a more desirable 1-3-2 NPK ratio. Contrary to what the inexperienced believe, ratios are everything. You will get better results using something like hydroplex with your AN base nutes which speaks poorly of your base. Something like jacks classic with a 1-1-1 ratio for veg and their blossom booster for flower will be easier, cheaper, and perform better. If you're in hydro, then my nutrient recommendation would change.

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skunkushybrid01 said:

I'm quoting you just for future reference... as you really have no idea what you're talking about. maybe one day ina few years you'll get it and come back to this thread to apologise to me... although i'm not holding my breath. LOL.

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skunkushybrid01 said:

There is no such thing as over fertilising a plant. You can only over fertilise the medium. Most people get that part confused... they're told that plants can take toxic amounts of nutrients and that the symptroms of this are burning. Not quite right. What happens is that the medium gets salty, much saltier than you'll probably believe it needs to too, and this slows down K transport. So the plant starts to struggle to take K. the burning is actually necrosis caused by a K deficiency.

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homebrewer said:

I think you need to stop posting in this thread. Plants can absolutely take in more food than they need.

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squarepush3r said:

Hi Skunkushybrid01, if you look at the attachment I posted, it doesn't mention necrosis, it mentions Nitrogen toxicity, which is extreme dark green color of the leaves from too much nitrogen.

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Though central to our understanding of how roots perform their vital function of scavenging water and solutes from the soil, no direct genetic evidence currently exists to support the foundational model that suberin acts to form a chemical barrier limiting the extracellular, or apoplastic, transport of water and solutes in plant roots. Using the newly characterized enhanced suberin1 (esb1) mutant, we established a connection in Arabidopsis thaliana between suberin in the root and both water movement through the plant and solute accumulation in the shoot. Esb1 mutants, characterized by increased root suberin, were found to have reduced day time transpiration rates and increased water-use efficiency during their vegetative growth period. Furthermore, these changes in suberin and water transport were associated with decreases in the accumulation of Ca, Mn, and Zn and increases in the accumulation of Na, S, K, As, Se, and Mo in the shoot. Here, we present direct genetic evidence establishing that suberin in the roots plays a critical role in controlling both water and mineral ion uptake and transport to the leaves. The changes observed in the elemental accumulation in leaves are also interpreted as evidence that a significant component of the radial root transport of Ca, Mn, and Zn occurs in the apoplast.

The root system is a highly specialized plant organ that works to get both water and essential mineral nutrients from the changing chemically and physically complex environment of the soil. Roots do this by both controlling the uptake of water and essential mineral ions, as well as regulating their movement to the central vascular system of the plant for long distance transport to the shoot. To allow the cellular control of water and mineral ion uptake and transport via specialized transport proteins, plant roots contain a waxy layer of suberin that acts to seal connections between cells, preventing uncontrolled leakage of water and mineral ions between cells. By screening thousands of mutant A. thaliana plants, we were able to identify a plant with elevated levels of suberin in the root. Using this mutant, we were able to uncover the importance of suberin in sealing connections between root cells to regulate water movement through the plant and accumulation of various essential and nonessential minerals in leaves, including sodium, sulfur, potassium, calcium, manganese, zinc, arsenic, selenium, and molybdenum.

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homebrewer said:

So just to sum up your ignorance, you're saying ratios don't matter and you can't over feed. I hope the posters in this thread have enough common sense to ignore all future posts from you.

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In summary, roots do most of the work in protecting the plant from excessive uptake of salts, and filter out most of the salt in the soil while taking up water. Even so, there are mechanisms for coping with the continuous delivery of relatively small amounts of salt that arrive in the leaves, the most important being the cellular compartmentalisation of salts in the vacuoles of the mesophyll cells. This strategy allows plants to minimize or delay the toxic effects of high concentrations of ions on important and sensitive cytoplasmic processes. The rate at which leaves die is the rate at which salts accumulate to toxic levels, so genotypes that have poor control of the rate at which salt arrives in leaves, or a poor ability to sequester that salt in cell vacuoles, have a greater rate of leaf death.

Dr. Rana Munns, CSIRO Division of Plant Industry​

Canberra ACT, Australia

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Potassium - Too much sodium (Na) displaces K, causing a K deficiency.

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skunkushybrid01 said:

I didn't say that you couldn't overfeed. i said that you can't over feed a plant. you can over feed the medium, however... it depends on the plant's salinity tolerance.

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skunkushybrid01 said:

I didn't say that you couldn't overfeed. i said that you can't over feed a plant. you can over feed the medium, however... it depends on the plant's salinity tolerance.

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Micronutrient disorders are, perhaps, the most common fertility problem in soilless media floriculture crop production. Micronutrients (from the Greek Micro = small and nutrient = nutritive) are mineral elements needed by plants in small quantities. Even small variations from the optimum level required for plant growth can be damaging. By the same token, levels slightly above the required for good growth can be toxic. It is very important for growers to have a clear understanding about micronutrient management. This fact sheet is a brief overview of the principles that control the availability of micronutrients in soilless mixes and how to correct imbalances.

A micronutrient disorder may be a deficiency (when the micronutrient is in deficit) or a toxicity (when the micronutrient is in excess). Deficiencies can occur either because the nutrients are not present in the growing mix or because the nutrient is present but unavailable to the plant. (Occasionally, plants with roots damaged by Pythium or other pathogens may show micronutrient deficiency symptoms.) Some commercially prepared mixes have a fertilizer charger that may include micronutrients. Growers preparing their own mixes should use one of the many commercially available micronutrient complexes to ensure that the micronutrients are present in the growing mix.

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