Coco Growers Unite!

BeaverHuntr

BeaverHuntr

Well-Known Member
TheChosen said:
I have some questions for the coco growers out there. Here's the deal...

I've been growing in supersoil for two years with great success. Before that I was using the entire line of Fox Farm. I've been really happy with soil, especially the Super Soil except for the fact that I get thrips and white flies in every bag of Roots soil. I've considered switching soils and amending it to match the roots but time is critical for me and I can't wait for the month+ to let the SS cook so I've been looking at alternatives.
I started looking into coco because I've been told a quality brand of coco will never have bugs in it, I've seen great results with it elsewhere, and I would like to try and become familiar with other mediums than soil.
I have some books with information on coco that's I've always skipped over because I never considered using it at the time. So I will read that but a few specific questions I have are:
When people say ''flush'' the coco how much water are you using? And I assume the water needs to be ph'ed, correct?
Are bottanicare and Canna still quality sources of coco? And I will be growing in containers, so I was looking at the coco coir as I heard it retains water the best.
How fast does coco dry out? I hear of people mixing perlite in with it so I thought it retained water pretty well but then I read that in containers it will need to be watered everyday so I'm a little confused.
When I used the Fox Farm I would feed once with the nutes, and then just water with plain RO water. Is this what you do with Coco, or you do use a nutrient solution with every watering?
I have a 5' x 5' veg/flower room where they will be growing. I would like to pop 20 seeds but this would leave me with little space so I planned on almost no veg time and flowering in small pots. Do any extra considerations need to be taken when flowering in small pots of coco?
Click to expand...
I never flush my coco. I use house and garden cocos and the rest of their additives and one of them is called " Drip Clean" you basically add some every res change it helps break down salts and what not.

Botaincare and Canna are still good companies Canna being better in my opinion. And I'm from AZ where Botanicare is manufactured..If you are doing Coco the best brands of nutrients are: Canna , House and Garden, & Botanicare

One consideration is to watch out for cal/mag deficiencies for some reason coco likes to suck up cal/mag. You wont really notice it unless you have long veg times. Vegging longer than 4 weeks and the cal/mag deficiencies show up. I always pre charge my coco and I use Canna coco coir, I just add 5 gallons of water 5ml/per gallon of cal/mag and let that marinate for 24 hours.
Coco should be treated just like a hydro grow its part of "Passive Hydroponics" so PH should be 5.5 - 6.0

For instance I have my pots with 100% Canna Coco coir and I water once every 3 days because it stays that wet in veg.. I;m sure when they get to flower I will probably have to water every other day. I use a nutrient solution with every watering.

The best coco coir out there is Canna Coco Coir- its good to use right out of the bag. You can use cheaper coco brands or the brick but you have to water them to rinse the salt out of them.
 
Boyz N Da Hood

Boyz N Da Hood

Well-Known Member
Very good info on this thread! I've also been considering the switch to coco.. Was wondering if anybody here runs an organic coco mix? Saw this on askEd's coco guide on GC..

[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]Somehow I missed these on the previous page, my bad!


[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]Quote:
[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]Originally Posted by J R [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]Ed...thanks for the coco info, it is great. Can you talk about the nutes you use in bloom?

N,P,K,Mg,Ca,S....and the PPM.[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]Thanks JR! I've tried a few different nutes for blooming including Fox Farms Tiger Bloom (with Big Bloom) and the Botanicare's CNS17 for coco series (Bloom, Ripe, CalMag, Sweet, etc.).

They all work well though both needed calcium supplementing beyond the CalMag in my case. Each plant can have it's own feed schedule. I had a Cali Hash that would devour anything I threw at her, she required nutes every watering at about 900ppm.

My LSD on the otherhand would tox up at 600ppm if I feed her every watering, so she was alternating between waterings. She was fed a little heavy going into flower and I gave her straight water for 2 weeks before she was ready to feed again for example. I chose that over flushing just to see how much nutes coco could store. With a light feeder it's quite a bit.

Lately I've been using organics. My mix requires nothing more than water until mid flowering, at which point I add a top dressing of some bone meal, bat guano, lime, greensand, and kelp meal. This provides a major blast of phosphorous, potassium, calcium, magnesium, iron and micro nutrients. So far I have one plant about to harvest with this feed (Super Lemon Haze - buds are really fat and triched out), and I have 4 other plants that are 5-10 weeks into flower using this. So far they all LOVE it (prettiest plants yet) except one very stubborn sativa.




[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]Quote:
[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]Originally Posted by Saaz [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]So Ed did you have a "recipe" for the organic coco? I'd like to try my hand with plain water.

As a daily hand waterer I drain to waste and end up mixing up a bunch of nutes every week. I did hit on keeping a bucket of concentrated nutes that one could quickly scoop a quart out and make three or more gallons of appropriate strength solution @ 1.4-2.0 EC. I initially pH this concentrate at 5.8 and diluting with RO it rarely requires further adjusting.

I'll see about some pics for the other thread.[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]Hey Saaz! I hear ya on the nute mix, that's one thing I loved about the CNS17 line, 15-20 ml + CalMag in RO would nail it on 5.8 with no adjustments needed. Real convenient!

Here's my current coco mix recipe: (2 gal formula):
6 qt - coco
2 qt - perlite
1.5 oz - blood meal
1.5 oz - bone meal
1.5 oz - kelp meal
1.5 oz - green sand
1 oz - epsom salt
2 oz - dolomite
1 oz - cottonseed meal (NPK slow release)
1 oz - dry molasses (bacteria food)
2 oz - mycorrhizae fungi
* all of these amendments have micro nutrient


When I flip tp 12/12, I transplant from 1 gal to 5 gal using the same mix except no blood meal. This will provide another 3-4 weeks of food.

This mix BY FAR is the best I have tried, I've been tweaking this one for months. Kelp meal was the only hard item to find.

Let this mix 'cook' for a few weeks if you can by letting it sit around after it's mixed, but it's not necessary really. At least I have no issues using it right away.

Good luck man, let me know how this works out![/FONT][/FONT]

 
M B P

M B P

Active Member
Hi... though I've been growing in coco for a few years, this is my first look at this thread. I've had great results, but I got stoned earlier... and a couple question have been bugging me.

1) How often do you water in coco? I grow in a mix of 60/40 coco/hydroton (puffed clay pellets). I water every 3 days. I've had great results... but should I be watering more frequently?

2) I've also been giving 5ml/gallon CaMg+ until the last week or 2. I just read that doing so is wrong... that I should stop using it when I enter bloom. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

DSC00404.jpg

Big one is a blackjack that has been topped and supercropped. Small one is a snow white (4 more snow whites behind the camera).
 
nas2007

nas2007

Well-Known Member
M B P said:
Hi... though I've been growing in coco for a few years, this is my first look at this thread. I've had great results, but I got stoned earlier... and a couple question have been bugging me.

1) How often do you water in coco? I grow in a mix of 60/40 coco/hydroton (puffed clay pellets). I water every 3 days. I've had great results... but should I be watering more frequently?

2) I've also been giving 5mg/gallon CaMg+ until the last week or 2. I just read that doing so is wrong... that I should stop using it when I enter bloom. Anyone have any thoughts on that?



Big one is a blackjack that has been topped and supercropped. Small one is a snow white (4 more snow whites behind the camera).
Click to expand...

ok first did you know that you do not need to add anything els to your coco medium? no need to add perlit or anything els to it, becouse coco drains so well on its own and is very hard to over water,

when i be in veg i water every 2-3 days, in 11L pots in veg , and in flower i go from every day to every 2days just depends on the pot wight, also depends on the heat and air flow more of this the more you have to water, and the aim is not to let the coco dry out maybe just a little from the top, as soon as the pot isnt heavy any more she urgently needs some water,

you can use your cal/mag in flower no problem!
 
nas2007

nas2007

Well-Known Member
BeaverHuntr said:
I never flush my coco. I use house and garden cocos and the rest of their additives and one of them is called " Drip Clean" you basically add some every res change it helps break down salts and what not.

Botaincare and Canna are still good companies Canna being better in my opinion. And I'm from AZ where Botanicare is manufactured..If you are doing Coco the best brands of nutrients are: Canna , House and Garden, & Botanicare

One consideration is to watch out for cal/mag deficiencies for some reason coco likes to suck up cal/mag. You wont really notice it unless you have long veg times. Vegging longer than 4 weeks and the cal/mag deficiencies show up. I always pre charge my coco and I use Canna coco coir, I just add 5 gallons of water 5ml/per gallon of cal/mag and let that marinate for 24 hours.
Coco should be treated just like a hydro grow its part of "Passive Hydroponics" so PH should be 5.5 - 6.0

For instance I have my pots with 100% Canna Coco coir and I water once every 3 days because it stays that wet in veg.. I;m sure when they get to flower I will probably have to water every other day. I use a nutrient solution with every watering.

The best coco coir out there is Canna Coco Coir- its good to use right out of the bag. You can use cheaper coco brands or the brick but you have to water them to rinse the salt out of them.
Click to expand...
i agree 100%
 
LesterBurnum

LesterBurnum

Active Member
I don't know about all that guys. I veg for 2 months at least and use cal mag every time with no defficiencies. And you (Beaverhuntr) should be watering more. That may be a issue for some salt buildup and hence lockout.
More fans or intense lights or smaller pots. You will get much better results.....trust me on that one...
Now when you flower is another story regarding the cal/mag defs. Once I change to flower I use just epsom salt in place of cal mag. If I see some Calc defs I will switch to the cal mag for that strain. But 98% of the time I only seem to get Mag defs. When I use the epsom and PK the whole way through they finish green and keep all those bushy leaves.
But imho once you see the Mag def you need to jump on it, as with any, and keep with it constantly. You wont see much difference for a week. So dont think that what you are doing isn't working..
Just my two cents. Anyone else have a thought on this?
Also..if you are re-using your coco then this might be your problem. When the coco is deplete it seems to grow fine in veg but once you flower you cant control the potassium and mag, it seems. These are close and touchy when the coco has lost it's bufferinjg ability.
 
M B P

M B P

Active Member
so... watering every 2-3 days is probably fine. and using cal/mag through flowering is fine... or not fine (maybe just limiting its use).

I read somewhere that mixing 50/50, 60/40, or 70/30 (coco/hydroton) is a common thing to do. That's why I started doing it a couple years ago. I generally don't re-use the hydroton (or coco) because it is such a pain in the ass to clean. Cost-wise, its about the same or maybe a little less to use the combination. I just do it because that's how I started to really grow... That's what I know.
 
M B P

M B P

Active Member
hey... another question: I use sunleaves coir blocks. Where does that rank on the totem pole. I do flush the hell out of it with boiling water before use.

I've never noticed it in store, but, online, my hydro store says that they have botanicare and roots organic coco for about $14 dollars per cubic foot. Is that worth using? Right now sunleaves is costing me $5 per cubic foot... plus the added labor of breaking that stuff up.
 
TheChosen

TheChosen

Well-Known Member
What size pots are you flowering in? I intended to veg for one - two weeks and flower in 2.5 gallon air pots. Do you think that will be large enough?
 
iamaaror

iamaaror

Well-Known Member
TheChosen said:
What size pots are you flowering in? I intended to veg for one - two weeks and flower in 2.5 gallon air pots. Do you think that will be large enough?
Click to expand...
That's exactly what I'm using and it has been awesome so far, about 4 weeks away from harvest and it's still shooting out loads of new roots. And they becomes less of a pain in the ass to water once the pots fill up with roots. Although I am having to water everyday now. I can't leave it 2 days or there wold be no water left at all.
 
BeaverHuntr

BeaverHuntr

Well-Known Member
LesterBurnum said:
I don't know about all that guys. I veg for 2 months at least and use cal mag every time with no defficiencies. And you (Beaverhuntr) should be watering more. That may be a issue for some salt buildup and hence lockout.
More fans or intense lights or smaller pots. You will get much better results.....trust me on that one...
Now when you flower is another story regarding the cal/mag defs. Once I change to flower I use just epsom salt in place of cal mag. If I see some Calc defs I will switch to the cal mag for that strain. But 98% of the time I only seem to get Mag defs. When I use the epsom and PK the whole way through they finish green and keep all those bushy leaves.
But imho once you see the Mag def you need to jump on it, as with any, and keep with it constantly. You wont see much difference for a week. So dont think that what you are doing isn't working..
Just my two cents. Anyone else have a thought on this?
Also..if you are re-using your coco then this might be your problem. When the coco is deplete it seems to grow fine in veg but once you flower you cant control the potassium and mag, it seems. These are close and touchy when the coco has lost it's bufferinjg ability.
Click to expand...
I'm using 100% coco I dont think I need to water as much as you think I do.. The coco is staying very wet ... From the looks of things they seem to be fine..I have used smaller air pots in the past and I prefer a 3 gallon.. No problems here but thanks for your concern...I get very little salt build up with House and Garden nutrients because one of their additives is "drip clean" its used specifically for salt build up.
 

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TheChosen

TheChosen

Well-Known Member
iamaaror said:
That's exactly what I'm using and it has been awesome so far, about 4 weeks away from harvest and it's still shooting out loads of new roots. And they becomes less of a pain in the ass to water once the pots fill up with roots. Although I am having to water everyday now. I can't leave it 2 days or there wold be no water left at all.
Click to expand...
Did you veg in the 2.5 gal air pots and if so for how long?
 
tehgenoc1de

tehgenoc1de

Active Member
My girls are in 2.5 gal air pots too. 100% Canna coco. Vegged for 7 weeks, just flipped to flower. I've been having to water every other day, about a half to three quarters of a gallon. Definitely see having to water everyday in a few weeks. I believe it will be sufficient enough, though time will tell. Drip systems work fucking stellar for airpots and coco.
 
BeaverHuntr

BeaverHuntr

Well-Known Member
tehgenoc1de said:
My girls are in 2.5 gal air pots too. 100% Canna coco. Vegged for 7 weeks, just flipped to flower. I've been having to water every other day, about a half to three quarters of a gallon. Definitely see having to water everyday in a few weeks. I believe it will be sufficient enough, though time will tell. Drip systems work fucking stellar for airpots and coco.
Click to expand...
Hell yeah they do... I'm watering about every other day or every 2 days in veg right now.. 100% coco stays very wet..
 
TheChosen

TheChosen

Well-Known Member
Plants look great Beaver, makes me consider trying out House and Garden. Which is funny because I almost purchased their line for soil a couple years back, but went with super soil instead.
 
BeaverHuntr

BeaverHuntr

Well-Known Member
TheChosen said:
Plants look great Beaver, makes me consider trying out House and Garden. Which is funny because I almost purchased their line for soil a couple years back, but went with super soil instead.
Click to expand...
I'm very happy with results I get from House and Garden, very clean nutrients my only complaint is the PH buffers.. Aftter adding Cocos A & B my PH drops to 3.5. The drip clean additive is a must especially for those who use tap water. The drip clean added to every reservoir change helps with salt build up so you dont get nute lockout it just doesnt get any easier for me.. I feed with nutes every watering and dont ever have to worry about salt build up, hell my drip lines and drippers dont ever show a spot of salt build up until maybe the last 2-3 weeks of flowering.. House and Garden cocos has my vote.
 
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