defoliation question..... anyone familiar with it?

FR33MASON

FR33MASON

Active Member
Bud Brewer said:
The whole point of thc and essential oils are as bug repellant so if there is any difference it should get stinkier and stickier good point fr33.
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I will say up front that I have never tried this technique on cannabis so I can neither yea or nay it. But causing stress like that during flowering just is a tough sale for me. It was always taught to me on the farm that the best products come from the least stressed organisims and I was witness to it every day.

I have to admit though, I keep thinking about the apple orchard on the farm and the pruning that we do is quite intense to get them trained right to produce larger fruit BUT that pruning is done when the plant is fully dormant.

You do present some decent anecdotal evidence. I almost want to do it myself to say one way or the other but I do see this as undue stress, especially during flowering and I have much empathy towards my plants.
Interesting none the less.
 
Bakatare666

Bakatare666

Well-Known Member
Bud Brewer said:
I would feed more veg till near the end you aren't getting N and maybe magnesium tsp epsom salt to a gallon with the half veg nutes .

That plant doesn't look shaded enough to strip leaves especially if your losing leaves.

I defoliate in veg with small plants when they are growing fast every couple of weeks they grow the leaves back in days but if everything isn't growing fast I wouldn't do it.
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Thanks man, That's kinda what I have been trying, with the Veg N Bloom being a 16-10-30, and I have fed twice with that in the past week and half, but since I've stopped foliage and vertical growth over a week ago, I thought that would have been plenty of N to stop any N yellowing.
I just don't want to give any more N unless she really wants it.
I've given 1 tsp of epsom twice within the past 2 weeks just in case, remembering my last outdoor Sativa dom., being real finicky compared to the heavily Indica dom. that I had right next to her.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
"Rock Resinator (1-4-16), Cutting Edge Bloom (0-6-5)"?

Are you kidding me? Hell, even if I didn't know plant nutrition, I'd stay away from such products just because I don't care for the sales pimping, cheesey product names.

"16-10-30"?

Are you kidding me? And you're wondering why you're losing leaves? The CFL's probably don't help either. Go with a HID.

Bakatare666 said:
I just don't want to give any more N unless she really wants it.
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Why not? If that's what it requires, then give her what she needs as opposed to some psychological need to go along with The Herd or (false) product label claim regarding super duper this and that. No offense, and I'm not singling you out as I see this (brainwashed) approach with every new crop of noobs, but it's obvious she needs more N, but your approach suggests you're struggling inside trying to get past the typical communal bloom food addiction. When are you noobs gonna learn that it's foliage that produces bud, not frickin' bloom foods that are sold only because folks like you demand them, not your plants. The snake oil manufacturers will give you what YOU demand, because it's all about sales. Only pros like Peters or Dyna-Gro care about your plants.

Solution - give the plant NOTHING more than a high N food until harvest - blood meal, 30-10-10, 9-3-6, UAN (33-0-0). Read this and so some research OUTSIDE of this forum.

https://www.rollitup.org/nutrients/570037-so-you-noobs-hooked-cannabis.html

Also, regarding the epsom salts, NEVER give a plant something as a prophylactic, "just in case". You just may have created a deficiency of another mineral -

http://www.totalgro.com/concepts.htm

Good luck,
UB
 
FR33MASON

FR33MASON

Active Member
budman111 said:
Can someone please explain the science behind this defoliation
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Until there is a trial that is published on this technique, it is just theory not science. No numbers, no science. The same goes for everything that is presented on the internet including my posts...just theory.
 
Bakatare666

Bakatare666

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
"Rock Resinator (1-4-16), Cutting Edge Bloom (0-6-5)"?

Are you kidding me? Hell, even if I didn't know plant nutrition, I'd stay away from such products just because I don't care for the sales pimping, cheesey product names.

"16-10-30"?

Are you kidding me? And you're wondering why you're losing leaves? The CFL's probably don't help either. Go with a HID.



Why not? If that's what it requires, then give her what she needs as opposed to some psychological need to go along with The Herd or (false) product label claim regarding super duper this and that. No offense, and I'm not singling you out as I see this (brainwashed) approach with every new crop of noobs, but it's obvious she needs more N, but your approach suggests you're struggling inside trying to get past the typical communal bloom food addiction. When are you noobs gonna learn that it's foliage that produces bud, not frickin' bloom foods that are sold only because folks like you demand them, not your plants. The snake oil manufacturers will give you what YOU demand, because it's all about sales. Only pros like Peters or Dyna-Gro care about your plants.

Solution - give the plant NOTHING more than a high N food until harvest - blood meal, 30-10-10, 9-3-6, UAN (33-0-0). Read this and so some research OUTSIDE of this forum.

https://www.rollitup.org/nutrients/570037-so-you-noobs-hooked-cannabis.html

Also, regarding the epsom salts, NEVER give a plant something as a prophylactic, "just in case". You just may have created a deficiency of another mineral -

http://www.totalgro.com/concepts.htm

Good luck,
UB
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Thanks man.
That started out like something going to bash what I've been doing so far, but I read anyway, as I have heard many good things about your experience.
First, all the 'gimmick' stuff I'm trying on this plant I got as free samples.
I am smart enough I wouldn't go run and buy a bunch of shit that I hadn't tried before.
Next, my confusion over if she wants more N or not is because none of the outer leaves are showing signs.
It is only happening to a few lower leaves down below the lights towards the center.
Lastly, I have done the whole grow with just CFL's due to limited finances, and temp.
I am growing in a 2x2x3 closet, and I can control temps with just a 6" fan inside, and an oscillating fan blowing through the cracked door without making ventilation holes.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Bakatare666 said:
It is only happening to a few lower leaves down below the lights towards the center.
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That suggests a N deficiency.

Once you get some bulk, sell your pot and buy some nice equipment. No fault of yours. Ya gotta crawl before you can walk.

BUT, those NPK values are ridiculous. Look, be conservative. A 10-10-10 will get you some very nice plants. Don't go playing games with low N foods.

....and come on man, don't fall for this fallacious crap:

Rock Resinator uses an extensive and complex combination of phosphorus and potassium designed to pack on extra size and weight. Rock Resinator contains citric metabolites to accelerate the kreb cycle to deliver consistent results in flower size, quantity and quality that has no rivals. Using the finest and most refined natural base elements and plant extracts ensures your favorite plants are given the best opportunity to develop to their full potential. Triple Action Technology - Rock Resinator uses the latest bio stimulant technology to accelerate flower formation and essential oil production with results that will rock your world!

UB
 
Alexander Supertramp

Alexander Supertramp

Well-Known Member
keebo3000 said:
quick update on my plant for you guys to bash , have at it with my blessings,View attachment 2513066View attachment 2513067View attachment 2513068View attachment 2513069View attachment 2513070View attachment 2513072View attachment 2513073View attachment 2513074View attachment 2513075View attachment 2513076 my next experiment consists of the 6 sour kush clones pictured i will be defoliating three and using uncle ben's four top method on the other three
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Point is your still learning...they would have given you better buds if you treated them right....instead you net raped them.....at least learn how to feed them before you mug them...
 
Bud Brewer

Bud Brewer

Well-Known Member
keebo3000 said:
quick update on my plant for you guys to bash , have at it with my blessings,View attachment 2513066View attachment 2513067View attachment 2513068View attachment 2513069View attachment 2513070View attachment 2513072View attachment 2513073View attachment 2513074View attachment 2513075View attachment 2513076 my next experiment consists of the 6 sour kush clones pictured i will be defoliating three and using uncle ben's four top method on the other three
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I think your problem was over feeding they are fried it will take some time for them to get over it.
Feed half strength or quarter if really bad not straight water with fertilized plants just reduce the amounts you could even feed half veg half bloom to give them a more balanced diet.

organics are easier then you think and safer I'm going to update my grow log soon but here is a teaser the two colas
SAM_7819.jpgSAM_7822.jpg

My 6 clones for my defoliation test have been transplanted into cups and are taking off all the same. My 3 controls wont be topped so we will have a good comparison for all methods I'll start that journal soon.
 
keebo3000

keebo3000

Well-Known Member
Bud Brewer said:
I think your problem was over feeding they are fried it will take some time for them to get over it.
Feed half strength or quarter if really bad not straight water with fertilized plants just reduce the amounts you could even feed half veg half bloom to give them a more balanced diet.

organics are easier then you think and safer I'm going to update my grow log soon but here is a teaser the two colas
View attachment 2513271View attachment 2513274

My 6 clones for my defoliation test have been transplanted into cups and are taking off all the same. My 3 controls wont be topped so we will have a good comparison for all methods I'll start that journal soon.
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constructive critisism is a lost art my man, appreciate it..... i followed AN schedule.... because your right i dont know what they need or how to feed them. that dose not mean im going to stop trying.... this is just another success( learning step) on the way to a great grow hopefully some day soon
 
keebo3000

keebo3000

Well-Known Member
Bud Brewer said:
I think your problem was over feeding they are fried it will take some time for them to get over it.
Feed half strength or quarter if really bad not straight water with fertilized plants just reduce the amounts you could even feed half veg half bloom to give them a more balanced diet.

organics are easier then you think and safer I'm going to update my grow log soon but here is a teaser the two colas
View attachment 2513271View attachment 2513274

My 6 clones for my defoliation test have been transplanted into cups and are taking off all the same. My 3 controls wont be topped so we will have a good comparison for all methods I'll start that journal soon.
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also i would REALLy love to grow organically so please give me your knowledge , grow schedule and items need to get started at your convenience of course
 
Bud Brewer

Bud Brewer

Well-Known Member
I screwed up both pictures are of the same top but the other one is just as big.

I've been to lazy to update my journal I have way to many pictures I have been deleting many to get a good series from start to finish.

I'll include what I have done through every stage including different homemade concentrates I've fed them with it is pretty simple sort of these were never fed anything chemical.

I think this weekend the top buds are coming off but now they are still swelling.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Alexander Supertramp said:
His problem is he has no clue how to actually grow. Instead he relies on forum bs and magical formulas.
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You can't help people like him. They are locked into a Herd-say-this comfort zone and can not see outside the box. Look at this guy - fails at this garden and he STILL plans on defoliating. I'm happy to help folks that get it, but when they're as hard headed and unwilling to learn, you best save your breath for another.

Uncle Ben
 
Sir.Ganga

Sir.Ganga

New Member
keebo3000 said:
quick update on my plant for you guys to bash , have at it with my blessings, my next experiment consists of the 6 sour kush clones pictured i will be defoliating three and using uncle ben's four top method on the other three
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Nice pics...gotta take more myself. Have you grown that sour kush before? I have yet found a true Kush that likes this technique of removing leaves. All plants are not equal when it comes to manipulation, but good on ya for making an effort to better your grow and gain experience.

Personally I have found short fat indica's seem to like defoilation and thrive when this is applied correctly.
 
blacksun

blacksun

New Member
keebo3000 said:
THIS is what im reading to learn View attachment 2513578View attachment 2513578
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Wait a minute..............Is that the Jorge Cervantes grow bible? Even Jorge Cervantes himself says, in that very book, that "defoliation stunts a plant's growth". I did some googling, try around page 60 or 61 in your hard book version.



I have the e-book PDF version of Jorge Cervantes' "Indoor Outdoor Medical Grower's Bible". In this version, it's on pages 87 and 88.

This is literally what Jorge Cervantes himself says:

"Leave leaves alone! Removal of healthy leaves hacks up a healthy plant. Removing large fan or shade leaves DOES NOT make plants more productive. This practice DOES NOT supply more light to smaller leaves and growing tips. Plants need all their leaves to produce the maximum amount of chlorophyll and food. Removing leaves slows chlorophyll production, stresses the plant, and stunts its growth. Stress is a growth inhibitor. Remove only dead leaves or leaves that are more than 50 percent damaged."

He even capitalized the "DOES NOT" parts himself as well...



I'm not trying to start or further continue an argument or anything. Just pointing out that the book you say you are learning from itself, and the author too, both say "do not defoliate, it stunts the plant's growth" in plain, very undeniable, black-and-white.

I'm sure even this may not convince you, you will just have to try it for yourself like many of us already have.

That IS kind of part of the fun of growing, for me at least, being able to try different things and seeing the results for yourself.
 
keebo3000

keebo3000

Well-Known Member
blacksun said:
Wait a minute..............Is that the Jorge Cervantes grow bible? Even Jorge Cervantes himself says, in that very book, that "defoliation stunts a plant's growth". I did some googling, try around page 60 or 61 in your hard book version.



I have the e-book PDF version of Jorge Cervantes' "Indoor Outdoor Medical Grower's Bible". In this version, it's on pages 87 and 88.

This is literally what Jorge Cervantes himself says:

"Leave leaves alone! Removal of healthy leaves hacks up a healthy plant. Removing large fan or shade leaves DOES NOT make plants more productive. This practice DOES NOT supply more light to smaller leaves and growing tips. Plants need all their leaves to produce the maximum amount of chlorophyll and food. Removing leaves slows chlorophyll production, stresses the plant, and stunts its growth. Stress is a growth inhibitor. Remove only dead leaves or leaves that are more than 50 percent damaged."

He even capitalized the "DOES NOT" parts himself as well...



I'm not trying to start or further continue an argument or anything. Just pointing out that the book you say you are learning from itself, and the author too, both say "do not defoliate, it stunts the plant's growth" in plain, very undeniable, black-and-white.

I'm sure even this may not convince you, you will just have to try it for yourself like many of us already have.

That IS kind of part of the fun of growing, for me at least, being able to try different things and seeing the results for yourself. Just make sure you setup a proper test with a control.
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you are right. and i am familiar with it. but there are points in which both of those books contradict each other on certain subjects. and jorge mostly talked about outside grows with lots of space, not inside of a cabinet, limited space. so yea i never said i got it out of the book, but experimenting is fun just like you pointed out, and i dont need convincing, which so many of you gentlemen fail to realize, what i did ask for was opinions from people who have defoliated, and judging from your text you have, although you failed to answer the question either way just a quote from a book i obviously have, im going to assume you didnt have a good experience with it...... wouldnt that have been better to say, than "AHAH i seen that book", if you read through thread this has been mentioned several times that jorge dosent agree with defoliation , while other growers do. [video=youtube_share;alRSi2BwUT8]http://youtu.be/alRSi2BwUT8[/video] so to each his own, there is no need to convince or debate on share real world experiences thank you. peace
 
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