do my leaves look ok ?

ok Im done ... I´ll quit !!




this is creazy ...

I´ll end up useing more money on water then electricity and more money then if I buy the smoke !!!

can this realy be ?

sure I have high temps (80-84F) and a 600W HPS ...

and damn they grow fast . have to remove a leksikon evry day (2 inches) to keep em 16-20 inchs away ...

but I now have to give em a gallon of water each evry day !!!! why did`t anybody tell me




yesterday I notice some top leafs had curl under at the edges .. tryd to do some research .. last night ..

heat stress and they would curl up ..so no ... could be start of to much nutriens .. but I dont think so .. still no other signs what so ever and tops are even a bit light green ..

but to day I agin had a yellow leaf at the bottom .. now at the other plant ..

so I did feel the dirt and it was pretty dry 3-4 inches down !! so Im pretty sure it is under watering .. agin

have much can them bitches drink ?


a few pictures .. tell me what you think ... could it be sumthing els ? it seems like its mostly the new growth but other leafe have it slightly aswell .. leafe edges turn down/around




morning temps:



do clime to 28-29C doing the night ..

Lol, I did tell you remember..RAIN WATER lol. It's free, it's easy, and it's got free nutrients in it!!! Lol.

I was actually using about 60 gallons of Reverse Osmosis water a week until I started using rain water. It's crazy. And I can't believe people use a hose to water their outdoor gardens...that's crazy to me. I'd use 300 gallons a week probably...

My plants are in 5 gal pots and can take up to a gallon of water early to mid flower. So that's a normal amount of water.

Plants still look awesome man, every leaf looks healthy. It's such a shame their gonna get thrown away. If you end up deciding to use a worm bin, you can throw those leaves right in the bin too.

The leaf tips doing that is usually a sign of heat stress for most strains. I think it's still too hot in there. Which means you should pull the light at least 20 inches from the plant until you can cool it down in there. Or, try setting up an oscilating fan so that it's blowing constantly right between the light and the top of the plants. That might get the temp down a couple degrees.

It can also be a sign of over-watering, but I seriously doubt you have that problem. It's usually a newb issue...

But yea, your girls are flowering now, and in nature, while they can handle those high temps while they are vegging out, they don't start to flower until the end of the summer, when temperatures are cooling. So right now your plants probably think it's the fuckin armageddon. They know that it's Fall, because there is only 12 hours of light in the day, but they expect the temps to cool down.

If you can't get it under 79 at 16 inches away, you have a heat problem pure and simple my friend. And don't forget, 79 is the high end, 72 is the good end. If you can flower around 75 with lights on, and 55-60 with lights off, you'll grow amazing flowers. That's how you get all the crazy looking colors to come out, the bud and the leaves.

So here's the deal for you. A cheap quick fix that would probably get you down a couple degrees would be to upgrade your blower fan asap, like you were already planning to do. And then try to get a fan to blow air constantly between the light and top of colas.

Now, like you said you're just growing for you. So the worst thing that's gonna happen with the heat stress is that they'll herm out a little. No biggie, it'll only hurt your pride. And yield and potency a tiny bit. So you can either take care of shit now, or just wait 6 or 7 more weeks until these are done.

If you wanna take care of shit now though, you've got two good options just like we talked about before. First option: You can get a small co2 setup and run that in there. With co2 you can get your temps up to 85, and you'll get bigger yields. Second option: You can figure out a way to cool the room, day and night. A small a/c unit, like a room unit..that's what I used last year. You can get em for like $300 around here, not sure what your options would be in Denmark. There are also water coolers and stuff, I don't know anything about them.

Either way it's not the end of the world.

ok .. well AC is not a option .. cant mount it outside on the wall and dont want one of them cheap once for inside wher you have to empty water ..

also .. schould not be a problem them other 7-9 months a year .. it summer now ..



and I bet I solv it when I get my new out take ventilation ..

then I mount the one I have now at the intake so I have 145M3/hr on low or 187M3/hr on high for intake ..

and the new one for outtake will be on 365M3/hr .. I just need like 2-3C lower and Im in the sweet zone (26-27C)



air comming in now is about 23C .. I bet it would be lower if I could pull it in faster

and if I can changes the air inside quick enough it schould be possible ..

it is 23C comming in and it lower the temps 6C from 35C to 29C now ..

guess changesing the air twise as fast schould in terori lower it 6C more so I have the same temp inside and outside ..

but under the HPS Im sure it will be a bit high .. but 3C lower would also be good enough .. then I hit them 26C (78F)

but I need to wait a few weeks ..



I dont belive it is heat stress .. I think you for once got it wrong

well .. it is not the tips .. it is the edges of them leafs that curls .. and they curls down under itself ..
and it is not just the top leafs near the light .. it is also on bottom growth .. mostly new shoots .. not so much old leafs ..

I belive (correct me if Im wrong ?) that heat stress would not only be on small new growth ? and it would mostly/be wors at the top of the plant and as you said yourself back at pages ... hmmm ... 28737463 or so ... heat stress make the leafs curl up at the edges ..

I narrow it down to 2 things I think it could be .. + a few it might be ?

fist (and Im leaning most to this now) it is waterstress/under watering .. they are in 7 gallon pots and pretty big (2 feet high and pretty wide) and they got high temps and a 600W blowing at em ..

no wonder they can use a gallon a day .. I just did`t expect them to use this much ! in veg I gave em a liter a week or two maybe .. now its 4 times as much .. evry day .. but as I said .. them condisions and the fact that they are in early flowering and grow 1-2 inches a day do make it logical ..

also that I keep finding a yellow leafe or two do point in that direction ..


seccon thing:

is the start of over fertilizing .. I read it can make leaves curl under .. just have a hard time beliving it .. as I have been on the low side all growth ..

beside that Im thinking sulfor or some micros ? as top new growth is kind a light/light green .. but seems my plant just like that ?
and the new grow is also thin .. but I dunno if that is normal for new leafs in flowering .. them leafes between the buds is normal smaller I belive ?


over watering I cant belive .. just gave em a gallon each .. and I had less then 1/10 runn off in total .. now they fell heavy and top soil is damp/wed .. I guess wight just play tricks on me ? dunno .. thort I had it in controle .. maybe the bigger plants foold me ? I liftet them and was think .. pretty heavy .. schould be ok .. then I thort .. hmm maybe I do the finger in the pot (dont do it anymore as I dont like dirty hands no realy .. dont want to mess with roots

and I ended up with all my finger in 2-3 inchs and it was not wet ... or damp .. not much sticking to my finger .. not crusty but pretty dry .. falling appart a bit .. so then I water them and now the pots are twise as heavy or so ..

and with so littel runn of I dont belive they are over waterd ?

and about the leafs .. I fluss them out the toilet as I snap em off

tho after haverst I wont wast em ..
Ill use em with the small airy buds and buds I have made KIF on to make oil on it all .. noting waste d here .. cept me maybe


Ooh yea and sorry for the messy post .. stoned and its late .. watching Le Mans raceing all night .. doing bong heads and drinking coffee

and sure I could buy a big fan and point it at the HPS to keep it cool ..





but I dont think I got room ... for that 10" fan that is sitting ther now .. 1 foot away .. bloweing at a 30-45 degress angle .. directly at the HPS ...in the direction of the carbonfilter/outtake

p.s.

trying to think "forword" so to speak .. will they need even more water later on ? or less ? or is a gallon about it ?

I did`t belive it would be nesseary to water evry day .. hate when they look dropy afterwards ..

I knew what you meant by droopy, I saw it in the third pic They're doing something like this http://forum.grasscity.com/sick-plants-problems/389562-dark-leaves-curling-downwards-help.html

Did you say you have been having to water them every day? If that's the case then either the roots at the bottom are probably starved of oxygen from being soaked in water while the top of the soil dries (which is probably not the case) or it's root bound...or it could be a hydro problem that I can't help you with...like salt buildup or ph problems...stuff I don't have to worry about . You could do a flush if you haven't yet. Give a couple gallons of phed water and let it run out.

Oh, duh, you just said you've been having to water everyday. To be honest, you might need to replant..or if you don't, you should water them good and then come back a couple hours later and give them a little more. The heat may be drying the pots out as well, what's the humidity in the room and what's the humidity outside of the room?

hmmm... yea reading that link .. I agin get a bit confused .. so many diffrent oppinions and suggestions ..

and yea .. last 2 days I have been watering evryday as soil seems dry and plants seems dropy and a few yellowing leafs at the bottom .. dunno ?
you could be right .. also why I did add some lega nuts on top .. to shild it and keep the moist ..

also notice that humidity have gone up a bit .. from 35-45% to 50% or so .. so your might be right ?

ok did as you suggestet .. when I look now leafs look a littel better .. not so much curll .. maybe half ..

gave em ½ a gallon more in total ½/4 each .. no runn off atall ..

so what do you suggest ? I continue to do this evry day ? is the point that I dont provide enough water with one watering ?

or is the point of doing so .. that I can skip a day now ? let the bottom dry out some more maybe ?

I realy dont want to repot .. schouldnt be nesseary .. got em in hugh 7 gallon pots .. would be a nightmare to get them out of the room .. not to talk about pulling them out of the pots .. and what schould I replant in ? 10 gallons !!! ?

cant be right .. also .. roots schould have air in the bottom .. got 2 inches of lega nuts thers for drain and air ..

The only way I'd recommend replanting is if you can do it extremely gently. If you don't think you can, then don't do it. I've replanted midflower before without any stress or problems, but I'm gentler with the plants then any other gardener I've ever seen. I would try this watering technique out for a few days and see if things improve first.

And the plants will let you know if they can go every other day or not if you water like this, just lift the pots the next time the lights come on and then check them again within a few hours of the lights going off if you can. Make sure it's not dry. If it's not dry then you can probably go every other day as long as you water and then come back and give them some more after a couple hours. And definitely get fabric pots next round. You'll thank me I promise.

And I think the heat is turning more of the water in the pots into humidity, but that's ok humidity is good for them as long as you can get the pots wet enough to make the plant happy when you water. Those leaves might not just perk back up either, they might stay like that. But at least more won't get messed up. Oh, and if those leaves don't get much light, even less of a chance of them perking back up. But no big deal either way, like I said the plants look awesome.

By the way, if you go hydro you're gonna be dealing with stuff like this all the time until you get things dialed in...and then you'll move or something and it'll be a pain in the ass. Lol. Stick with soil or soilless, even with the nutes you're using.

Oh, and about the link I gave you, I shoulda just asked if you have any meters, like a ppm or ec or I don't know if they'd be different in Europe. But meters to check pH and ppm and stuff. But if you are already seeing those leaves look a little better, then it's probably not a pH problem.

And if you're gonna switch to organics you don't need any meters or ph testers or any of that stuff anyways, so no point in wasting money on them until you know for sure how you want to grow in the future.

fabric pots ?? explain please ? made of clothes ?


about meters (ppm/ec/PH) no .. dont have any of them yet .. woud like on of them who can boath ..

but I did make a soil test agin (remember I have this small soil PH kit) and it was still spot on ..



not as light as PH6 and not as dark as PH7 .. good enough for me ..

it would also be a bit wierd if it was to much off .. have transplantet 3 times and it have all been good soil with a PH of 6-7 and I allways water with 6,5 or so (also use a test kit for that) and runn off is allways 6-6,5 when I check ..

so unless I have hugh ammount of salts in the soil I doubt it .. and I have`t been overfeeding it and GH schouldnt build up so much ?

dunno .. would like either a PPM/EC meter or go organic ? lets see ..

the leafs did look a bit better before light off (not so curling .. like maybe half .. not touching it self on the back anymore .. just a littel under curl .. that is a sign to me .. lets see when light get on agin if its even better ? and how moist the soil is ..

but I guess your right .. agin .. its the heat .. not stress .. just the high temps that make my water evaporate .. guess my new ventilation would fix a lot of things .. maybe also that ?

but humidity do climp from 40% to 50% roughly .. not allarming .. but is`t 50% a bit high for flowering ?

I do have plenty of air circulation in ther so hopefully I wont get any mold (also new appartment so pretty dry .. no mold spots or anything like that .. like in some old appartments/houses)


you say my plants look great .. maybe its just me .. as allways .. who want it all perfect .. who am I kidding .. experiance growers even have smaller problems .. why schould I be able to grow 110% perfect plants on my fist trail .. with high temps and new to nutriens aso.

but if your right .. and only thing I will discover from smaller problems like this .. is that I will maybe get 7 insted of 8oz in the end and strenges would maybe be 18%thc insted of 22% .. then Im kool ..



about DWG .. just seems so nice .. still only pots .. only need a air pump/stone .. no soil .. no rootbound .. no over/under watering .. Im sure you have to fight PH and ppm .. and I could imagen its shows fast in DWG if your off .. but I would rather fight that I belive ?


or .. and tell me if you think this would be a good idea ?
Coco .. pure coco fibers .. in 5 gallon pots .. to end with .. and only organic nutriens ?
could that work ?


also .. what is the deal with Organic ? is it more expensiv ? do you need more ? I mean if it is so much better/easy why dont evrybody use it ?

have been doing a littel more thinking .. logical

if my water do evaporate at a high rate .. so I have to water evry day ..

I schould maybe back off a bit on nutriens .. as I feed a littel evry watering ..

maybe do it evry seccon from now on .. or Im sure nutriens/salt will build up .. GH or not .. as I dont belive nutriens will evaporate ...

I was kinda right, I thought it was heat stress at first...but it's heat and lack of water. But that's all good stuff man, just means you're doing everything right. It means you've got great big roots and a big thirsty plant.

50% humidity isn't too high for flowering unless you are in an area that get's a lot of bud mold. It's good for the plant.

Finally, you want me to talk my head off about organics lol. I can do that for a minute.

My mix is actually 80% coco. The rest is worm castings, worm compost, and some vegan amendments because I don't use guano or bonemeal. But as soon as I can make enough compost it'll just be 80% coco and 20% worm compost.

And yea, organics can be cheaper if you do it right. But that means saving a little rain water when you can, worm-composting (which is really easy anyways, and doesn't create smell in an apartment), and making teas. And the teas are really easy to make as well.

Look at it like this. Pretend you go to sleep tonight and you're dreaming ok. You dream that you can formulate and synthesize all your own ingredients together to make your own special nutrients that are specific to cannabis. Sounds pretty fucking cool, right? THAT'S WHAT ORGANICS IS.

Sure, you can just use all bottled stuff like a lot of people do, and then it's a little more expensive than using hydro nutes, but you still get better quality pot. But if you make your own worm compost you cut A LOT of corners cost wise. Within 6 months I think all of my nutrients will be homemade and free. So organics will actually be MAKING me money with NO OVERHEAD COST at least for nutrients.

The reason everyone doesn't use organics is because even organic food consumption didn't become popular again until it became easier to get information to people faster, via the internet and stuff. And a lot of people are convinced by the hydro companies and stuff that they can only get big yields with hydro. Plus rappers have been rapping about hydro for a long long time lol.

The US started marketing chemical fertilizers almost 100 years ago I believe, and people bought into it right away because it was cheap and it kept pests off of the plants. People either didn't know how dangerous it was, or didn't care. Most of those products have been outlawed for a long time, when "new" products were introduced with the promise to be safe..and of course they're not new, they're usually by-products of chemical warfare or something.

I believe Monsanto's RoundUp is a by-product of Agent Orange...and it's in every gardening and hardware store I see. But a lot of people have seen the destruction that these kinds of chemicals do to the world, and now we have scientific evidence that chemical grown food is poisonous to our bodies, but obviously not everyone cares about their bodies...so not everyone cares about organic growing methods.

But the best part about growing organically is how fun it is. With hydro you learn and become great, but it's always balancing out things exactly and testing things. With organics there is no testing of anything. You just watch nature take over, it's fun.

You should google some link about GMOs and why pesticides are bad for us and stuff like that. I can give you all kinds of links, but it might be easier for you to google them in your language.

Oh, and fabric pots..rootpouch.com Or roots organics has their own brand of felt pots now too. I use Gro Pots because they are felt and have handles as well. The benefits of using fabric pots are that the roots will grow out through the fabric instead of circling the pot, so they air prune.

But the biggest benefit for me is that I can literally feel where the water level is with my hand on the pot, so I know how much more water I can give.

ahh ok .. but I do like my big plastic pots easy to move around ..

but I will look it to it ..

will mostlikely use coco for my next grow .. did read a lot of good things about it ..

but you say I schould mix it with soil and stuff ?

I was thinking about makeing my own soil mix .. can get some nice greenhouse soil with clay and sand in it and some nice sphagnum at my local plant center .. maybe mix it with coco blocks from my hydro store ?

and yea I belive I have a hugh root net .. have been giving them evry reason to make one .. repot em from 1 gallon to 3 .. then to 5 and now in 7 gallons .. all with good soil (light mix from bioz. and some of that plant school soil with sand and clay in it) and lega nuts in the bottom for drain and air ..

but can it realy be that my plants use so much water a day that ther pots cant hold it ? I mean so I have to water twise ?

tho the "trick" you toald me to give it a littel extra water later on might work .. still a bit wet to day .. so maybe I can skip a day that way and still "only" water evry seccon day (1 gallon fist then 1/4 a few hrs later)

dunno what exatly to do .. can deside what to do ..



a few pics ..

HPS is on so its hard to see color right ..

but new grow is light green and leaves is still trying to tell me sumthing ..

wish I could speak leavesih ..

most leaves is pointing upwards as helty leaves schould do but same time they curl under (cant deside if they just grow so fast that they cant unfold fast enough ? Bc. top of the same leaves is curling upwards ???????????????)

please tell me what you see:

did a littel more research ... found this ..


Notice the clawing, nitrogen toxicity would be my guess. And joweed, My bigger plants in 5 gal buckets require 2 1/2 gallons of water everyday during a vigorous growth period. Actually 5 liters is barely enough to wet 5 gallons of medium, moreless get much runoff. This has also contributed to the problem along with feeding every watering. Salt build up in the medium. Feed, water, water, feed, water, water. Flush them well. Then just plain water for a week or so, then ease back into your nutes.



might be my problem ? fist Im under watering a bit .. then to make up for it I water more and feed with it ..
as I read in other guids/threads a sign of over fertz. is also curling leaves .. might just have a bit to much PPM/nuts in the soil ..

I keep watering them for a few days with clean water and see if I can get em back on track ..

Like I said, salt-buildup is a pretty typical problem with hydro nutes. It's the same thing when a human baby gets fed formula instead of breast milk. The salt from the formula builds up in the baby's kidneys, so they need to start drinking water by 6 months old, while breast fed babies (organic ) don't need to start drinking water until well after a year old, because there is not salt in breast milk.

So now that they are getting watered everyday, there's less room for that salt to build up, so you might need to flush it out. Give them 3 gallons of pHed water each next watering and let them run out. Then feed them the next day. See if that helps.

Plastic pots easier to move around that this? https://www.htgsupply.com/Product-6---7-Gallon-Felt-Grow-Pots.asp They've got handles Lol.

I can't see good in the pics, but if the leaves are light green, they either need a little N, or it's cal/mag def. And if they are still growing, you might just want to replant. I gotta eat dinner though, I'll be on tonight. :]

hmmm dont realy want to repot .. dont have any bigger pots then 7 gallons ..

I did also think about N. but now they are two weeks in flowering ..
they schouldnt need it so much anymore .. so I guess its kind a to late to feed them that .. will need more P. now I belive .. last 6 weeks or so .. also need to rip em and flush em the last 2 weeks ..


I come to the conclusion that I need to flush (hate to remove em from the grow room tho .. might try to use a bucket in ther and just take it easy one plant at the time)

and then "only" feed evry 2-3 watering as long as I have to water so often (do they keep useing so much wter all of flowering ?)

and yea them pots do look nice .. is they 110% waterproof ?



p.s.
thanks for the explanation .. but erm .. I dont think I will be growing babies any soon

If the leaves are too light of a green, it's not too late to give the a little bit of N. I use alfalfa meal in my compost teas all through flower just to deliver them a little bit of N to keep them green and healthy. Just don't give them much...

And yea, I think you need to flush too. You don't have to move the plants. Just bring a 5 gal bucket in there and put a couple boards or something across and you should be able to just drain into the bucket.

And yea, they're gonna suck that much water up all throughout flower.

The fabric pots don't leak water until they get over full, they're pretty cool. And if you over fill them they just leak out the bottom like a plastic pot would. But you can't over fill them unless you do it on purpose cause like I said you can feel where the water level is at the pots.

And you're welcome lol, I don't suppose you're going to be breast feeding your plants anyways lmao.

hmm then I schould be producing organic nutriens insted of milk .. could be cool .. just dont think any of them girls I know would think so

and yup .. I flush .. the bad/slow one to day .. lets see .. maybe the good/better looking tomorrow .. depending on results aso.
I try in the room .. have some plastic and a big bucket and I prepard 4 gallon of water in total ..

I did a small flush befor I put em in the room but I guess the heavy watering have been building up more salt ..