Heatsink requirements

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Trig81

Member
Hey guys, starting an led build and going for 1 driver per cob. As money is temporarily tight atm it will be a modular build, and I will be adding more cobs and drivers as needed. So far I have chosen:
Vero 29 c
Mean well lpc 100 1400
Also I already have an arcadia t5 starter with a 54w plant pro tube which I will put in there for some extra red and blue.

As the cob will be running at around 93w what size heatsink (either passive or active) will be required, bearing in mind it will be drawing less than half of its max current.

Thanks
 
CobKits

CobKits

Well-Known Member
Trig81 said:
Hey guys, starting an led build and going for 1 driver per cob. As money is temporarily tight atm it will be a modular build, and I will be adding more cobs and drivers as needed. So far I have chosen:
Vero 29 c
Mean well lpc 100 1400
Click to expand...
those drivers arent the most efficient. i know you said money is tight but on a per-watt basis an hlg-185c1400b is about the same (and more efficient/better warranty/dimmable), for $25 more its a solid investment
Trig81 said:
As the cob will be running at around 93w what size heatsink (either passive or active) will be required, bearing in mind it will be drawing less than half of its max current.
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the cob's max current is kind of irrelevant, watts are watts.just about any cob running at 93W is going to have a similar heat load +/- a few percent

whats your plan for the future? are you going to do less watts per cob as you add cobs?
 
T

Trig81

Member
CobKits said:
those drivers arent the most efficient. i know you said money is tight but on a per-watt basis an hlg-185c1400b is about the same (and more efficient/better warranty/dimmable), for $25 more its a solid investment


the cob's max current is kind of irrelevant, watts are watts.just about any cob running at 93W is going to have a similar heat load +/- a few percent

whats your plan for the future? are you going to do less watts per cob as you add cobs?
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Oh yeah I know a watt is a watt, I should have said before I get shouted at for running it hard lol

Not sure what way I'm taking it yet, I'm just dipping my toes in to see how it goes before dropping the cash for more expensive drivers etc. When I say money is tight, I mean this month, my wife's and 2 of our brats birthdays are this month, plus our anniversary! Lol

The efficiency and warranty aren't really a big issue right now, it's still more efficient than HID and I'll probs have all new equipment before the warranty is up on that one. But that driver you mentioned is one I've already got my eye on for when I'm ready to expand in another month or 2!
 
CobKits

CobKits

Well-Known Member
hlgs are the backbone of almost every build on the site.you could drop it out of a two story window

$50 isnt a bad investment for something that will last you 10+ years of efficient operation. people trip over themselves to get a chip thats a few percent more efficient- that driver choice alone does that for you

veros are great chips but for the price of that $35 chip you could buy 4 citi gen5 1212s which at 24W each would be considerably more efficient than the single vero, better coverage and have much reduced heat loads. yes you are buying/building more heatsinks but the cost to cool (4) 24W chips is gonna be comparable to one 93W chip (which is just outside of the range of efficient cooling with pinfins. at 24W/chip you can cool with flatstock or cheap 2-3" extrusions from heatsink usa

im just saying for a similar cost (esp if you spend $25 more on a driver) you can buy a rig that will run a 2.5 x 2.5" area and give you years and never need upgrading.

again vero 29s are great chips, almost identical to the citi1825 in every way (price, output, efficiency)

i prob sell 100 small chips for every one large chip.
 
T

Trig81

Member
CobKits said:
hlgs are the backbone of almost every build on the site.you could drop it out of a two story window

$50 isnt a bad investment for something that will last you 10+ years of efficient operation. people trip over themselves to get a chip thats a few percent more efficient- that driver choice alone does that for you

veros are great chips but for the price of that $35 chip you could buy 4 citi gen5 1212s which at 24W each would be considerably more efficient than the single vero, better coverage and have much reduced heat loads. yes you are buying/building more heatsinks but the cost to cool (4) 24W chips is gonna be comparable to one 93W chip (which is just outside of the range of efficient cooling with pinfins. at 24W/chip you can cool with flatstock or cheap 2-3" extrusions from heatsink usa

im just saying for a similar cost (esp if you spend $25 more on a driver) you can buy a rig that will run a 2.5 x 2.5" area and give you years and never need upgrading.

again vero 29s are great chips, almost identical to the citi1825 in every way (price, output, efficiency)

i prob sell 100 small chips for every one large chip.
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Wow you've got great prices across the pond! Those gen 5s cost the same as the vero here! On digikey they've got vero 29 c version for £21 but they got the d version for £17. If I spend £34 on 2 do I get free shipping, or £21 for 1 c and it's £12 shipping, so I could put the 2 on that driver @50w each and have better coverage?
 
CobKits

CobKits

Well-Known Member
i can ship chips oer there for as little as $12 US. drivers are more expensive to ship

vero C at 21 pounds vs d for 17 pounds is a no brainer - go with the C

over here C are considerably more expensive than B and D
 
V

VegasWinner

Well-Known Member
Trig81 said:
Oh yeah I know a watt is a watt, I should have said before I get shouted at for running it hard lol

Not sure what way I'm taking it yet, I'm just dipping my toes in to see how it goes before dropping the cash for more expensive drivers etc. When I say money is tight, I mean this month, my wife's and 2 of our brats birthdays are this month, plus our anniversary! Lol

The efficiency and warranty aren't really a big issue right now, it's still more efficient than HID and I'll probs have all new equipment before the warranty is up on that one. But that driver you mentioned is one I've already got my eye on for when I'm ready to expand in another month or 2!
Click to expand...
I would wait it out till after the month is over. I would not buy a cheap driver to replace. Be patient you waited this long what's a few weeks? There are so many options that use Constant Current drivers plan well ahead. I bought drivers two years ago. I went from cobs to pcbs but I am still using the same drivers. Plan ahead
 
T

Trig81

Member
CobKits said:
i can ship chips oer there for as little as $12 US. drivers are more expensive to ship

vero C at 21 pounds vs d for 17 pounds is a no brainer - go with the C

over here C are considerably more expensive than B and D
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Bought the C!

VegasWinner said:
I would wait it out till after the month is over. I would not buy a cheap driver to replace. Be patient you waited this long what's a few weeks? There are so many options that use Constant Current drivers plan well ahead. I bought drivers two years ago. I went from cobs to pcbs but I am still using the same drivers. Plan ahead
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The way I see it, the cheaper driver gets me started sooner rather than later and I will be buying the better driver the same time next month regardless. Eventually the cheap driver will go in a drawer waiting to be a backup on the off chance something goes wrong with my setup. I'd rather have a cheaper one sitting there doing nothing than one that cost me double lol
Pcbs? Are they "quantum boards" how are they compared to cobs?
 
V

VegasWinner

Well-Known Member
Trig81 said:
Bought the C!



The way I see it, the cheaper driver gets me started sooner rather than later and I will be buying the better driver the same time next month regardless. Eventually the cheap driver will go in a drawer waiting to be a backup on the off chance something goes wrong with my setup. I'd rather have a cheaper one sitting there doing nothing than one that cost me double lol
Pcbs? Are they "quantum boards" how are they compared to cobs?
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I did that. I have a bag of cheap drivers. They work but not very efficiently. I put those away along with a dozen cree cobs cxb3590 and cxa3590 36v and 72v.

There are more than just qb's classified as pcbs just a general category. Specific pcbs in order to me chilledgrowlight gen2. 200w GrowGreen 200w designed specific drivers and power and oms fason and qb boards are similarily designed for various current and watt outputs.
Pcbs run cooler than cobs are as efficient if not more at lower current and the light spread is more controllable. Cree and others are moving to mid power leds for what we do as cobs were designed for high bay lighting not growing.
 
freemanjack

freemanjack

Well-Known Member
Trig81 said:
Hey guys, starting an led build and going for 1 driver per cob. As money is temporarily tight atm it will be a modular build, and I will be adding more cobs and drivers as needed. So far I have chosen:
Vero 29 c
Mean well lpc 100 1400
Also I already have an arcadia t5 starter with a 54w plant pro tube which I will put in there for some extra red and blue.

As the cob will be running at around 93w what size heatsink (either passive or active) will be required, bearing in mind it will be drawing less than half of its max current.

Thanks
Click to expand...
My next vid will be ready end of this week start of next week and will feature a 3 x vero 29se active cooled bar extrusion heatsink and the same drivers (or very similar) first fire will be this tuesday due to bank holidays here, will do my best to give as many hard numbers as possible, some of my meters are out on loan so bear with me.
 
S

schnurzel

Member
Anyone using refurbished server heatsinks?....Most of the models have a massive plate and some are made of pure copper.Ideal for low-budget or not?
 
freemanjack

freemanjack

Well-Known Member
schnurzel said:
Anyone using refurbished server heatsinks?....Most of the models have a massive plate and some are made of pure copper.Ideal for low-budget or not?
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I have one very small (20w) cob on a big old ally server heatsink but it still gets a bit too hot imo, if they accept a standard pc fan they are worth considering but I use 4 foot extrusions that come in at 30 quid (gb£) and accept up to 200w passive and 300+ with pc fans added.
 
DankaDank

DankaDank

Well-Known Member
VegasWinner said:
the light spread is more controllable.
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I disagree. I'd say applying specific beam angles to COB's is much easier, and more accurate then large PCB's with hundreds of distributed diodes . You can get a more even coverage with COB's then strips or boards, especially in the corners.

For instance look at this comparison

upload_2017-8-28_9-55-37.png

HLG-550
upload_2017-8-28_9-57-3.png
I think a lot of people don't understand how important optics are , everyone is looking at PPF and not how it is delivered to the canopy. For instance the increase in plant growth from 100 to 200 PPFD is much greater than that of 900 to 1000ppfd.

VegasWinner said:
Cree and others are moving to mid power leds for what we do
Click to expand...
I don't think Cree is specifically developing efficient mids for horticulture use as they are designed for a market area with much higher demand. Such as domestic interior and exterior lighting, decorative and entertainment lighting, Indicators, Switch lights, Light panels, emergency lighting and so on...

VegasWinner said:
cobs were designed for high bay lighting not growing.
Click to expand...
I'm just going to modify this sentence and be a sarcastic dick.
"HPS was designed for high bay lighting, not growing. So we should have never used it for horticulture, because its not like light intensity is that important.''
 
V

VegasWinner

Well-Known Member
DankaDank said:
I disagree. I'd say applying specific beam angles to COB's is much easier, and more accurate then large PCB's with hundreds of distributed diodes . You can get a more even coverage with COB's then strips or boards, especially in the corners.

For instance look at this comparison

View attachment 4001271

HLG-550
View attachment 4001272
I think a lot of people don't understand how important optics are , everyone is looking at PPF and not how it is delivered to the canopy. For instance the increase in plant growth from 100 to 200 PPFD is much greater than that of 900 to 1000ppfd.


I don't think Cree is specifically developing efficient mids for horticulture use as they are designed for a market area with much higher demand. Such as domestic interior and exterior lighting, decorative and entertainment lighting, Indicators, Switch lights, Light panels, emergency lighting and so on...


I'm just going to modify this sentence and be a sarcastic dick.
"HPS was designed for high bay lighting, not growing. So we should have never used it for horticulture, because its not like light intensity is that important.''
Click to expand...
You are a sarcastic dick no question in that. Try reading led magazine keep up with what is actually going on. Hlg is of no concern to me. I ran cobs for a couple of years. I sell you all my cree cobs half price since they are so great.
There are designed boards way better than hlg boards. Look around.
You want street light in your tent/closet fine. Does not bother me. Cob are high bay lights just like hps is a street light. The make horticulture leds now. No need to use crap like in the past but you are welcome to be sarcastic.
I moved on from cobs old history but you are welcome to repeat old history or move forward. Your choice don't beat me up because I don't like cobs i have experience and reasons behind my choices. Heat issues hermies all common to cobs enjoy
 
CobKits

CobKits

Well-Known Member
VegasWinner said:
Pcbs run cooler than cobs are as efficient if not more at lower current and the light spread is more controllable.
Click to expand...
first two statements are incorrect and third is a matter of opinion (which i disagree with). optics are easier on cobs.
 
V

VegasWinner

Well-Known Member
CobKits said:
first two statements are incorrect and third is a matter of opinion (which i disagree with). optics are easier on cobs.
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you are free to disagree this is my experience, which is factual. What I experience is not subject to your assumptions just the facts. I have used HPS, T5, leds, cob,s pcbs, and I have experience in growing with all of those to date. Over 30 years experience doing it too.

stick to facts before you call others out. you attacked a guy over a light you have no data on and you are acting like that guy assuming everythin g expert at none today. go\nna have to put you on ignore as I can see you are being pissy.
have a great day
 
T

Trig81

Member
Hi guys just thought I'd update, ended up going with 3x arctic alpine 11 pro rev. 2. Also got 2 more Vero Cs with a meanwell hlg 185 c1400b to run them. Also got myself a nice rhino pro with rvk fan.
Going well so far, been 11 days since they popped their heads out, been FIMed and are bushy as anything, and starting to stink the place out, so gonna get that fan running today!
 
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