STAY AWAY FROM LED's!!!!!

Clonex said:

LED's are only comparable to CFL type lighting / to compare them to HID lighting is ridiculous, however much the panel cost, they have there uses but comparisons make me laugh, peace

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Dude, where in the hell do you get that information?? LED light has FAR greater intensity than HIDs, and far greater penetration. Comparing LEDs to CFLs is like comparing the sun to a flashlight bulb!!
I am not currently using LEDs, but I HAVE done my research so that I might make an intelligent decision about them. I do not advocate them or bash them, what I do NOT do is state incorrect info.

I love how I always have to back up my claims but no one else does. Then we got this dude who has not even used LEDs arguing. LED is junk, if you can't control heat you have improper ventilation. How's this? I have REAL WORLD experience with t5's, HID, and LED's. For the price of the led lights you could buy a small HID and all the fan's, ect you need.

So how does a so called 'pro' grower examine lighting?
Efficiency vs Cost

Led's are by far the wost, reduced yield and high cost.

T5's are the 'middle' ground reduced yeild, poor penetration, higher cost per watt than HID

Now the winner is HID. Why? A 400w HPS puts out more light with greater penetration than an 8 tube t5. If the bulb is exposed it puts off less heat as well. Want to know the kicker? It uses less wattage than the 8tube!

So what are t5's and LED's for?
Growing at home in a really small space (a closet can easily accommodate a 400w hps). They are also a marketing ploy, this stuff is VERY cheap to manufacture. You just pay the 'gimmick' tax.

You are more than welcome to spend thousands on LED's while skimping on other equally important factors in grow space design. Not me though

I'll go with you on the cost of HID vs the cost of LED. No question, and that has never been disputed. But to categorically state that the output of an LED is no more than, or comparable to that of a CFL is absurdity at it's finest. Obviously you haven't done YOUR homework. You act like you are the only one with real world experience with lights. HIDs (which I now use, and have for several years) are far more cost effective in the short term. This thread, however had NOTHING to do with cost effectiveness, rather the effectiveness of LEDs themselves. The votes are not all in, and I am becoming more convinced by the day that they have real applicability to this field. If those of us who CAN afford them choose to do so, why does that aggravate you?
The OP stated that LEDs were crap, and we were trying to figure out WHY he said that. Nobody is questioning the high cost of them. But if nobody even TRIED them, how is that technology to progress? There are some real breakthroughs being made here, and LED technology is NOT going to fade away.
MY own personal reservation is the whole spectrum specific way they approach this. I believe (until proven wrong) that a full spectrum of light is needed to effectively grow pot, or anything else for that matter. But one cannot discount offhand the results people like Hoss are getting. Thats why it is called objective research.

So the stealth grow SG 1202 is probably the best LED grow light on the market.
Cost: $3,120!
For that price I can buy 15 full 1000w set-ups (ballast, socket set, bulb). Somehow I think 15,000w of HPS will grow more bud than one SG 1202 . . .

No doubt about the high price. But the effectiveness of LEDs and the resulting yields are the subject of this debate. I want to see your evidence that LEDS have inferior light output. That is what got MY goat. Christ, an LED is a mini SUN for Christs sake. Why do you think that technology is even moving in that direction in all lighting fields??

I never compared LED to CFL lighting. Now just like everyone, when presented with apparent facts you decide to have an 'emotional' response.

When you can sell me an LED that can spread light over 365 degrees, is as effective in REAL professional grow rooms, and costs the same as a 1,000w set- up I will buy it.

Get your own evidence, grow with LED's and HID's. Then come back and have this same agument with me

Ps- Nothing compares to the sun. Comparing LED's to the sun is just silly. Grow outside and tell me that again

My comments were directed (at first) to Clonex, so lets get THAT outta the way. It was him/her that compared CFLs to LEDs. Now then, you are 100% right that LEDs are directional. This can be a mixed blessing. For the vast majority of hobbyist and small professional growers, this translates into more effective use of light.
I have never grown with LEDs nor have I claimed to, hence this erstwhile civil discussion. I do, however, respect the opinions of those who have (and have the results to back that up), and thats the kind of stuff pertinent to this discussion/thread. The whole an LED is a mini sun thing was allegorical, and you must have taken that literally. WOW.
It's obvious you have issues with LEDs, and you are entitled to them. You grow vertical, and LEDs are definitely not for you.(Impressive grow in your journal, BTW) But please refrain from unsubstantiated bashing of them here as we are trying to find out why the OP has the opinion he does. As far as my "emotional" response, that would be contingent upon the fact that I care about what you think, which I do not. If you want a rational discussion of WHY you don't like them, then I'm all ears, as would most of the participants of the thread

Could just be cheap chinese junk LED or maybe the growth from the T5 is really stretching.

hoss12781 said:

Awesome, just what this board needs - more people shitting on leds. Have you used them Clonex, if so which brands/wattage and how did you have them set up? If you haven't don't blindly re-iterate what other people have said without speaking from personal experience. It doesn't further the conversation.

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My words were "led's are not comparable to HID's" freedom of opinion, you have mine - put your chest away -

Jack Harer said:

Dude, where in the hell do you get that information?? LED light has FAR greater intensity than HIDs, and far greater penetration. Comparing LEDs to CFLs is like comparing the sun to a flashlight bulb!!
I am not currently using LEDs, but I HAVE done my research so that I might make an intelligent decision about them. I do not advocate them or bash them, what I do NOT do is state incorrect info.

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you keep telling yourself that - its my opinion - calm yourself, ive used both.

Jack Harer said:

My comments were directed (at first) to Clonex, so lets get THAT outta the way. It was him/her that compared CFLs to LEDs. Now then, you are 100% right that LEDs are directional. This can be a mixed blessing. For the vast majority of hobbyist and small professional growers, this translates into more effective use of light.
I have never grown with LEDs nor have I claimed to, hence this erstwhile civil discussion. I do, however, respect the opinions of those who have (and have the results to back that up), and thats the kind of stuff pertinent to this discussion/thread. The whole an LED is a mini sun thing was allegorical, and you must have taken that literally. WOW.
It's obvious you have issues with LEDs, and you are entitled to them. You grow vertical, and LEDs are definitely not for you.(Impressive grow in your journal, BTW) But please refrain from unsubstantiated bashing of them here as we are trying to find out why the OP has the opinion he does. As far as my "emotional" response, that would be contingent upon the fact that I care about what you think, which I do not. If you want a rational discussion of WHY you don't like them, then I'm all ears, as would most of the participants of the thread

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Direct what you like at Clonex , im not here for a fight , ive done the trials and my OPINION is they are not comparable. ty

That sounded bad. it was meant to be "an answer to you" not the argumentative guy who butted in. You are right of course, that LEDs cost more than HID, but from what I have gleaned from all my research, they will eventually replace HIDs, and watt for watt they are more than capable of replacing them now.

Jack Harer said:

That sounded bad. it was meant to be "an answer to you" not the argumentative guy who butted in. You are right of course, that LEDs cost more than HID, but from what I have gleaned from all my research, they will eventually replace HIDs, and watt for watt they are more than capable of replacing them now.

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And thats your opinion and sorry if i jumped a bit , but i have used both , not the led's you buy off Ebay either , and my main issue was coverage and penetration. They have their advantages i agree , in stealth situations and they produce less heat and are cheaper to run, but in my opinion because of the lack of coverage large scale growers cannot use them, its not personal , just this is how it worked for me ....

And I can respect the hell outta that!!

Stay away from LED's? Oooooh scare tactics. New technology comes along and some people get excited and some people get defensive. Pity. But someone said here it may be bad for you? Or your eyes? Or something to that effect. I've been wearing sunglasses in my led area because of nausea. But aside from that I don't worry...pfft..I already have skin cancer anyway.

There was no 'unsubstantiated bashing'. On too many levels LEDs are the worst choice for an indoor grow room. The yeild just does not compare, sorry I've seen it with all of them! Yeild has a direct correlation to the health of the plant. If you are getting crappy yields your plants are unhealthy. LEDs and t5's grow plants in what I refer to as 'stasis' most of the time. HID exhibits by far the most impressive growth rate and healthiest plants. Now none of these even compare to the sun! When putting a plant from HID into sunlight it needs to be shaded and acclimated to the intensity of the sunlight. If the plants are not acclimated in shade the leaves bleach and die. Plants grown in sunlight are by far the healthiest, strongest, and fastest growing plants.
Indoors the best we can do is maximize the amount of light the plants receive, LED's provide a poor option. You said it yourself, vertical growing. It's the closest we can get to 'outdoor' conditions indoors

For the record nothing I have stated about LED's is unsubstantiated. All statements are based on real experience.

check your self man its becuase you had shitty led's not cause led's dont work

agesbuds said:

I had 8 LED pannels in my 4 by 4 tent and they didnt do their job. Super slow growth. Switched to T5"s like 3 weeks ago and now my plants grow close to 3 inches a week vs the 1'' for the first 3 weeks!!! THEY are JUNK imho. Sorry my fellow LED growers, but this was in mt experiance

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some led's don't work you have to find the right ones but i prefer hps &mh

I think people mistake 'gentlemanly augment' AKA debate as a 'fight'. I do not however nor do I believe that JackHerer thinks it's a fight. Nothing wrong with rational discussion of marketing ploys , I was having a great time one he 'mighty wash' thread the other day. Did you know mighty wash is 99.9% water and kills all mites!?

Want to know how to identify a good product?
People use it often because of the value it transmits. Not saying it's not possible to build an LED that can compare to HPS, more so challenging people to build that better product. No one has done so yet.

its quite simple really-large scale growers cannot get away with leds, not enough coverage/penatration , stealth cabinet growers can use leds, they have no heat issues and there cheap to run. is this not obvious to everyone ?
there is no point comparing !!! jesus already! peace