We steal secrets

HA, you don't what I'm teaching. You don't need to. It is going in there. It is a riddle to your mind.
It is a Zen Koan to your Self.

And yes, I play xbox, i just back from 1000 miles on big motorbike.

But, perhaps more important for you if we ever meet, I stay in shape and I train daily in Now, to be fearless.

I train in martial arts to punish with pain. I train in dark mind influence to teach your sorry ass whether you like it or not.

I'm geek. We get things done. I'm inured to your words and I can take a strike in gut. Get ready to protect.

For you, I suggest the ignore list or....

Hold your plow with empty hands.

Doer said:

HA, you don't what I teaching. You don't need to. It is going in there.

And yes, I play xbox, i just back from 1000 miles on big motorbike.

But, perhaps more important for you if we ever meet, I stay in shape and I train daily in Now, to be fearless.
I train in martial arts to punish with pain. I train in dark mind influence to teach your sorry ass whether you like it or not.

I'm geek. We get things done. I'm inured to your words and I can take a strike in gut. Get ready to protect.

For you, I suggest the ignore list.

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I don't what you teaching.

Holy fucking horrible grammar.

Followed up by the "Internet tough guy" routine.

I LOL at your "Martial arts" and "dark mind" bullshit.

Good laughs as always.

How was the X-Box motorcycle trip? was it like a real one?

Rob Roy said:

Nope. I don't smear myself with anything....hey you been peaking in my windows again?

Justice is not a concept that a majority vote can somehow make a thing that is intrinsically wrong now morally right. Example: Slavery was accepted by the "majority"....when was it ever right? Never.

Manning was telling the truth....for that he has already been punished.

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Why do you get to say what is right? What do you think of someone sworn to secrecy, suddenly aiding the enemy? The truth? You can't handle it.

What if he was looking in your window and found you engaged in un-speakable deeds.
He will tell the truth for us all, NOT SWORN to desist.

You think you have a handle on what is right for everyone? You think there is absolute right and wrong that was not decided by all?

Tyrants are made of such. You just assume all right thinker will agree with you. You are not the only one.

There are a dozen, or more, here, present in our RIU AR. So, you cannot all define Right, in the same way. You don't. Merry tap dancers.

You can't say what is right for me. But, WE say what is right for US, like it or not.

Punished? There is no verdict yet. Let the beatings continue as a message, I say.

NoDrama said:

I don't what you teaching.

Holy fucking horrible grammar.

Followed up by the "Internet tough guy" routine.

I LOL at your "Martial arts" and "dark mind" bullshit.

Good laughs as always.

How was the X-Box motorcycle trip? was it like a real one?

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Such a girl.

Oh, btw, I'm glad you mentioned the grammer. Bad spelling I try to correct. Adding linking concepts for flow, I try to do that.

How about incomplete sentences? How about lack of articles?

How about backward phrasing?

Do you think all that and the grammar is accidental.

You don't want it. I understand. But, that doensn't matter.

You couldn't ignore me. The dark mind craves influence. And like a good Buddhist, Doer is there.

Not as a Buddhist, of course.

Pick up the sunken stone with dry fingers.
Listen to trees, clapping with one hand.

echelon1k1 said:

very clear double standard from you... Leaking secrets must only be okay if the white house does it everyone else is a "traitor" LOL... grow up

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Of course it's a double standard. The president of the United States was elected by the people of the United States to make American policy--he can divulge anything he wants because it's his prerogative. Bradley Manning volunteered to enlist in the United States Army and chose to be part of a hierarchical command structure; he agreed to keep classified information secret. He had no right to divulge anything.

tokeprep said:

Of course it's a double standard. The president of the United States was elected by the people of the United States to make American policy--he can divulge anything he wants because it's his prerogative. Bradley Manning volunteered to enlist in the United States Army and chose to be part of a hierarchical command structure; he agreed to keep classified information secret. He had no right to divulge anything.

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LOL... Here I thought above all else the job of POTUS was to "preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States" in addition to duties required by the executive branch.

Doer said:

Such a girl.

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Please tell me you will be wearing your Ninja suit when you come to kick my ass. Swift, silent, deadly, Doer. Kinda has a nice ring to it.

BTW how many black belts do you currently have? I heard you only had 20 different ones from "various" styles.

When you practice your

Dark mind influence. I'm trained in it.

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can you choke people out from across the table?



Perhaps across the world when you said you were going to fire the Russian person, whom you employ at your leisure as a "Communications" person?

I really have no Idea, you are just to cool to mess with, and an obvious bad ass, what with the dark mind influence thing you got going.

I don't what you teaching.

Rob Roy said:

Why do you value obedience over freedom and truth? The majority of the people thought burning witches was normal and acceptable a few hundred years ago.

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If you're unwilling to perform your duties, don't voluntarily enlist in the United States Army. If you're unhappy, that's irrelevant; if you don't think a policy is wise, that's irrelevant; if your judgment is that some piece of classified information should not be classified, that's irrelevant. A private does not get to make these decisions.

I think we're missing the point of my comment about majority opinion. I meant that people have no interest in Bradley Manning's case because they consider him a traitor--they think he's guilty and they want him jailed. There's no drama in it.

Doer said:

grammer. Bad spelling I try to correct.
doensn't

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*Grammar*
*Doesn't*
Do not try, do.

echelon1k1 said:

LOL... Here I thought above all else the job of POTUS was to "preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States" in addition to duties required by the executive branch.

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How would that be relevant to the president's prerogative to divulge classified information...?

tokeprep said:

How would that be relevant to the president's prerogative to divulge classified information...?

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His prerogative is purely in regards to which party occupies the oval office. A CRS report from 1997 sums it up by stating;

The rules governing how best to protect the nation’s secrets, while still insuring that the American public has access to information on the operations of its government, past and
present, have shifted along with the political changes in Washington. Over the last fifty years, with the exception of the Kennedy Administration, a new executive order on
classification was issued each time one of the political parties regained control of the Executive Branch. These have often been at variance with one another ... at times even
reversing outright the policies of the previous order.

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So as you can see the "prerogative" on classified disclosures has for the most part been motivated not by national security concerns, but political browning points.

tokeprep said:

Of course it's a double standard. The president of the United States was elected by the people of the United States to make American policy--he can divulge anything he wants because it's his prerogative. Bradley Manning volunteered to enlist in the United States Army and chose to be part of a hierarchical command structure; he agreed to keep classified information secret. He had no right to divulge anything.

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Quite right. Nothing at all, is OK, like that. Your word is bond in this country. And, the shifting morality play we call the Pursuit of Happiness has nothing to do with it in Self Rule. Right and wrong is the same a skirt length outside of Law where we play.

That is the very point. No fad governance. Big and slow, rule changing process, a Court that can and does consider the Morality Play, an active Executive branch, that I agree is somewhat Heavy, and one guy with....ahem, with vast and powerful persuasion. And a person that can get us all killed, quite actually.

It is that balance in Self Rule, everyone hates. No one gets their way,

....except perhaps Snowden. He did something. I don't know what all. But, the bold move may actually put a stop to the Anti-Cons storing our voice conversations. The covert blackmail is the reason that is strictly prohibited. Listening, and tracking under warrant is one thing, storingvoice is Anti-Con. Obtaining and storing decrypted passwords for later, is Treason to the People.

If they get away with that, we are done. Already we can imagine they have collected all voice, since. 2012, but likely before.

You can see the potential in politics. Mysterious caller. "Is this your voice?............don't say anything." Listen very carefully to what you will do with the.........Bill. ( or add your own....you will drop out of the race, today)

Or how about this one from the Chicago Machine. "Is this your voice?............don't say anything." Listen very carefully to these instruction about wreaking your car. Yes. At a certain time and place, you will wreak this pole with your car."

Some plausible denaibliy setup you will never know. Say anything and the town, county, nation, will hear what you said. Not pretty is it? Ask Richard Nixon.

Don't be naive to the ways of power. It however is beyond our imagination, alas.

So, Nathan Hale went to the gallows with a good phrase on his lips. We like a dead hero. But, Snowden will be back. You know that, right? WE are going thru the hoops to prove to Puttie, we will not kill him or "torture." We don't torture.

And it will cost Treasure and it will be more, keep the Congress in '14. That is how a President operates.

I'm sure some don't see a difference between Manning and Snowden.....<sigh>

tokeprep said:

If you're unwilling to perform your duties, don't voluntarily enlist in the United States Army. If you're unhappy, that's irrelevant; if you don't think a policy is wise, that's irrelevant; if your judgment is that some piece of classified information should not be classified, that's irrelevant. A private does not get to make these decisions.

I think we're missing the point of my comment about majority opinion. I meant that people have no interest in Bradley Manning's case because they consider him a traitor--they think he's guilty and they want him jailed. There's no drama in it.

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you have a lot to learn - starting with the difference between whistleblowers and spies...

In a nutshell...thanks.

echelon1k1 said:

His prerogative is purely in regards to which party occupies the oval office. A CRS report from 1997 sums it up by stating;

So as you can see the "prerogative" on classified disclosures has for the most part been motivated not by national security concerns, but political browning points.

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I'm not agreeing with you but I think it's irrelevant anyway. The motivation doesn't change the fact that it is the president's prerogative or that the president was elected and is accountable to the people.

Bradley Manning is a soldier sworn to follow orders. He has no prerogative.

echelon1k1 said:

you have a lot to learn - starting with the difference between whistleblowers and spies...

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See, it's actually you who has a lot to learn. "Whistleblower" has a very specific meaning in American law, and Bradley Manning does not qualify because he bypassed the protections available to whisteblowers in favor of illegally disclosing vast amounts of classified information to the public.

He is a traitor who aided the enemies of the United States, and I would gladly kick the stool from under his feet so that the rope could break his neck.

tokeprep said:

I'm not agreeing with you but I think it's irrelevant anyway. The motivation doesn't change the fact that it is the president's prerogative or that the president was elected and is accountable to the people.

Bradley Manning is a soldier sworn to follow orders. He has no prerogative.

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All great ideas that have no practical application. In a national security state you cannot have secrecy/classifications and nation security at every turn and expect accountability. We've yet to see any accountability in the most transparent and open administration in US history

So, to me, however, we have two spies unfortunately. Too late to call either a whistleblower.

In Hierarchy, you skip a few levels if the reveal is big enough. But, they will favor the favored.
Time to turn in some Brownie Points.

If it is a truely startling big reveal, you go Deep Throat. You give the Press the shot. Snowden did all
that, but then surfaced in Communism. Hmmm........Why there? Deep Throat never surfaced or
maybe he did. Some do claim.

All this other, is spying. All the spying is deadly to someone and all is quite, un-lawful in some way, if
you get caught.

How thin is it for Manning's Defense to say he didn't know the Jihad would read wiki-leaks? It was shown that he did know. He won't be hanged. He will live.

echelon1k1 said:

All great ideas that have no practical application. In a national security state you cannot have secrecy/classifications and nation security at every turn and expect accountability. We've yet to see any accountability in the most transparent and open administration in US history

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To be clear, I would not consider all people who leaked classified information--even beyond the executive branch--to be traitors. If they found real violations of the law, had solid evidence of them, followed proper procedures, and were then ignored by higher ups, I think a revelation to the American people would be entirely permissible. The government could try to argue that a crime had been committed, but the public would never stand for it. This has happened in past leak cases, but it's not what happened here.

Of course, as for your last statement: that's because this isn't "the most transparent and open administration in US history." Those are just comforting political words meant to ensure Obama's loyal followers that he's looking out for them. Obviously it's a lie, but Obama is a great liar. Don't blame me, I never voted for him, but I respect his right to make decisions about classified information.

tokeprep said:

See, it's actually you who has a lot to learn. "Whistleblower" has a very specific meaning in American law, and Bradley Manning does not qualify because he bypassed the protections available to whisteblowers in favor of illegally disclosing vast amounts of classified information to the public.

He is a traitor who aided the enemies of the United States, and I would gladly kick the stool from under his feet so that the rope could break his neck.

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Protections available to whistle-blowers under the Obama administration? Pull the other one champ... That classified information by the way revealed wrong doing and what basically amounted to war crimes. You should been happy with the "collateral murder" video as it's supports your position of US troops having NO responsibility to mitigate civilian casualties in war zones.

The main thing linking him to the "aiding the enemy" charge is the DVD recovered from UBL's compound containing the Wikileaks disclosures - testified to by the SEAL that found the DVD.
Ironically no Americans were killed because of the disclosure, unfortunately we cannot say the same about the white house disclosing details on the unit that conducted the raid.

As with the majority of these people, do you think such a life altering decision is just made on a whim? There is absolutely nothing to gain for these people by them disclosing info, their lives and that of their families is basically ruined. "In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act"