Health Care and Income - What would you pay?

[UncleBuck]

You might have a problem understanding how a free market would bring more choices and lower prices to consumers.

our health care market is the most free market of any wealthy nation in the world.

we have the highest costs and don't even cover all of our citizens, and medical debt bankrupts countless people every year.

every other nation has more regulation, more government control, lower costs, all citizens covered, and no medical debt.

so do go on about this free market bunny that you are chasing.

and clean your goddamn room already.

 

[Rob Roy]

our health care market is the most free market of any wealthy nation in the world.

we have the highest costs and don't even cover all of our citizens, and medical debt bankrupts countless people every year.

every other nation has more regulation, more government control, lower costs, all citizens covered, and no medical debt.

so do go on about this free market bunny that you are chasing.

and clean your goddamn room already.

No market is free if there are obstacles placed between the consenting buyers and sellers. To be a free market it must include choices of IF people will buy something and choices of WHERE they will purchase it. You are a champion for coercive government and their policies, I get that. You think limiting choices by regulatory barriers, protectionism and forced consumption of a service is a good thing, that would make you not very smart and a prohibitionist.

So why do you frequent a pot forum if you are for taking away a person choice to control their own decisions? What makes you think you can run other peoples lives for them? I know you won't answer these questions, because you can't and the clown shoes you are wearing are pinching your toes and distracting you.

 

[canndo]

No market is free if there are obstacles placed between the consenting buyers and sellers. To be a free market it must include choices of IF people will buy something and choices of WHERE they will purchase it. You are a champion for coercive government and their policies, I get that. You think limiting choices by regulatory barriers, protectionism and forced consumption of a service is a good thing, that would make you not very smart and a prohibitionist.

So why do you frequent a pot forum if you are for taking away a person choice to control their own decisions? What makes you think you can run other peoples lives for them? I know you won't answer these questions, because you can't and the clown shoes you are wearing are pinching your toes and distracting you.

Consistant irrationality here.


Ok, you and I enter into a contract. We both carefully read it but we agree. After consumation of that contract we find that indeed we did not actually agree. You feel cheated and I do as well. In your world, what exactly happens in order to resolve this free engagement turned sour? to whom do we turn for arbitration and how is the results of that arbitration enforced?


Is it fairies? little people? do we both simply wonder off conent in the knowlege that we are "free" after all?

 

[Rob Roy]

Consistant irrationality here.


Ok, you and I enter into a contract. We both carefully read it but we agree. After consumation of that contract we find that indeed we did not actually agree. You feel cheated and I do as well. In your world, what exactly happens in order to resolve this free engagement turned sour? to whom do we turn for arbitration and how is the results of that arbitration enforced?


Is it fairies? little people? do we both simply wonder off conent in the knowlege that we are "free" after all?

Okay thanks for proving my first point. Yes, for a contract to be valid it requires consent of all the involved parties and cannot include fraud or coercion. That invalidates the present system doesn't it?

Your question raises a different point, how are things arbitrated in a truly free market? That is a good question. Stay tuned.

 

[canndo]

Okay thanks for proving my first point. Yes, for a contract to be valid it requires consent of all the involved parties and cannot include fraud or coercion. That invalidates the present system doesn't it?

Your question raises a different point, how are things arbitrated in a truly free market? That is a good question. Stay tuned.

Who decides what is fraud or coersion?

 

[UncleBuck]

No market is free if ...

i said we were the MOST free. less regulation and government involvement than any other wealthy nation, yet we pay more, we cover less, and we get worse results.

reconcile that with your childish ramblings.

 

[Flaming Pie]

What country has the best healthcare system?

 

[UncleBuck]

What country has the best healthcare system?

by what metrics do you wish to define best?

some say it is ours, even though it is only the best of you're wealthy. if you're poor, you might as well be living in a third world nation.

 

[Flaming Pie]

by what metrics do you wish to define best?

some say it is ours, even though it is only the best of you're wealthy. if you're poor, you might as well be living in a third world nation.

You can still get good healthcare if you're poor. The hospital will just claim your house after you die.

 

[Rob Roy]

Who decides what is fraud or coersion?

First one of the parties to the agreement has to make a claim to an arbitration board. If there was no agreement in the first place, then it is likely that coercion has occurred. Hmmm, when have we ever seen this? Oh yes, Obamacare is a coercive policy isn't it?

 

[canndo]

First one of the parties to the agreement has to make a claim to an arbitration board. If there was no agreement in the first place, then it is likely that coercion has occurred. Hmmm, when have we ever seen this? Oh yes, Obamacare is a coercive policy isn't it?

the arbitration board awards you money, I don't agree with the decision, I don't pay, now what?

 

[Rob Roy]

the arbitration board awards you money, I don't agree with the decision, I don't pay, now what?

If the private arbitration board had a solid reputation, at a minimum you would lose credit with others that do honor their agreements. Similar to a credit rating, you would then be shooting yourself in the foot if you failed to abide by the decision, since people prefer to deal with those that have a good reputation.

If the original agreement had an appeals clause (which it could) you would be able to appeal the decision.

 

[Doer]

How much of your income would you be comfortable paying for healthcare?

Not saying "forced" or "voluntary" as both sides can be argued...

Like, if there was a mandatory tax for health care that was 5% of your paycheck each week and that covered you completely, would you be okay with that?

Shopping around for healthcare plans, what is the price point where you would say "well I gotta get that because it is a fair deal." (please put it in terms of percentage of pay)

When you need it you would pay anything to live.....not that it will ever help in the long run.

 

[NoDrama]

and medical debt bankrupts countless people every year.

Pfffft, people went bankrupt in order to default on the medical debt. Not the other way around you dolt.

 

[canndo]

If the private arbitration board had a solid reputation, at a minimum you would lose credit with others that do honor their agreements. Similar to a credit rating, you would then be shooting yourself in the foot if you failed to abide by the decision, since people prefer to deal with those that have a good reputation.

If the original agreement had an appeals clause (which it could) you would be able to appeal the decision.

Let us go backward a step - this deal is worth several million dollars - it is about all the money either of us has. My walking off with your millions and a bad checkmark on my reliability record still puts you in serious straights. Now what if the board really is biased for some reason? what if you or I influenced that board, what if one of us had insider information the other didn't have - about that board. If I am again unfairly treated by that board, whom can I appeal not the decision, but the black mark?

Who publishes these "histories"? Do THEY get money for doing so as credit agencies do? In short, so far you show me no enforcement what so ever in a society where each will, if given the chance take advantage of another. Unless you can get an entire country to agree and keep by that agreement NOT to take advantage of others, you have nothing. And if you DO get that agreement it will on its face be fraudulent.

One more thing. I NEVER made any contractual obligation to drive on the right side of the street. Why should I do so now? Havn't I, not having such an agreement, just as much of a right to drive on the other side?

 

[Rob Roy]

• One more thing. I NEVER made any contractual obligation to drive on the right side of the street. Why should I do so now? Havn't I, not having such an agreement, just as much of a right to drive on the other side?
  
  
  
  You make a good argument to privatize the roads here.
  
  
  
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[UncleBuck]

• One more thing. I NEVER made any contractual obligation to drive on the right side of the street. Why should I do so now? Havn't I, not having such an agreement, just as much of a right to drive on the other side?
  
  
  
  You make a good argument to privatize the roads here.
  
  
  
  ​
  
  

you make a good argument for a fiery, fatal, head on collision here, which is funny because it's a perfect analogy for your entire ill-thought out philosophy.

 

[Rob Roy]

you make a good argument for a fiery, fatal, head on collision here, which is funny because it's a perfect analogy for your entire ill-thought out philosophy.

You look pale. Here have some word salad.

Oh I guess if a road were privatized, the people that maintain it would have no fucking idea how to regulate traffic flow.

In your delusional world, in order to do this, you must have licked the boots of the state or the mysteries of traffic control will not be revealed. Hey you could get a job and show them how, you could start as a Prussian School crossing guard parasite.

 

[NLXSK1]

I am more concerned what I am going to get, not what I am going to pay.

 

[Flaming Pie]

What do you think is neccesary in a healthcare plan and what is a luxury?