"I don't support universal healthcare because we don't have the support in congress.."

ttystikk said:
Meh. I'm spreading the word to those who care about making our country a better place for all of us, not just the elites.

You apparently think things are fine. I disagree. I believe far more people agree with my position than yours.

Another difference between us is that I can disagree without being disagreeable.
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the young turks exist only because of massive corporate donations. and cenk ungur is a genocide denier.
 
UncleBuck said:
are you fucking retarded?

they primaried mike castle, got christine o'donnell instead, and she lost that seat to coons. would have been an easy pickup for castle.

in colorado they primaried norton, got ken buck, and he lost the seat to bennett.

in alaska, they primaried murkowski, got joe miller, and miller lost to a fucking write in campaign.

in indiana, they primaried lugar, got mourdock, and mourdock lost to joe donnely where lugar would have easily won.

the GOP would be close to a supermajority right now if not for the fact that they primaried their electable candidates in favor of ultra-right wingers.

you far left idiots are about as braindead as the far right. i'd rather work with rick wilson on legislation than bernie sanders at this point.
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Maybe that's what we need.

You are actually advocating AGAINST citizen participation and a bigger voice in government.

I disagree.
 
ttystikk said:
Maybe that's what we need.

You are actually advocating AGAINST citizen participation and a bigger voice in government.

I disagree.
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i am pointing out to you the facts: republicans primaried their own and it was disastrous. it did not work out great for them, as you tried to claim.

facts have to matter at some point.
 
UncleBuck said:
the facts: republicans primaried their own and it was disastrous. it did not work out great for them
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Republicans control 69 state legislatures, the House, the Senate, the Supreme Court, the presidency, as well as the majority of governorships across the country

How is that "disastrous"?
 
Padawanbater2 said:
Republicans control 69 state legislatures, the House, the Senate, the Supreme Court, the presidency, as well as the majority of governorships across the country

How is that "disastrous"?
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are you illiterate?

i listed exactly what happened when they primaried their own, you fucking cult worshiper.
 
Padawanbater2 said:
Republicans control 69 state legislatures, the House, the Senate, the Supreme Court, the presidency, as well as the majority of governorships across the country

How is that "disastrous"?
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Depressing, isn't it?

We could have had that last court nomination, but too much anti-Hillary rhetoric.

You turn your nose at 'incremental' change but that's how it's always worked. One seat at a time.


Someday, all this will hit you like a shit load of bricks. You can't force rapid change, half the country is always against us and every seat we wrestle from a republican is a victory.
 
Padawanbater2 said:
Complete and total control of government is "disastrous". OK

I think your education was disastrous, the results speak for themselves
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present evidence to the contrary or just sit there whining like the petulant child you are, fucktard.

i showed you 4 easy pickups that republicans blew by primarying their moderates. show me at least 5 that went the opposite direction, flaming pad.

facts are going to have to count for something at some point.
 
ttystikk said:
Maybe that's what we need.

You are actually advocating AGAINST citizen participation and a bigger voice in government.

I disagree.
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I root against citizen participation in many areas.

Because they're just too damn stupid. Intelligent people don't vote for an against-the-grain-freak like Trump.
Only wishful thinkIng idiots who think he'll get those coal mines running again, or racist dickheads who didn't like Obama because he was dark skinned, or the fucking morons who said a woman can't be president.

And no matter what, there's always, always, ALWAYS a political ebb and flow. And it's low tide right now.
 
tangerinegreen555 said:
Depressing, isn't it?

We could have had that last court nomination, but too much anti-Hillary rhetoric.

You turn your nose at 'incremental' change but that's how it's always worked. One seat at a time.


Someday, all this will hit you like a shit load of bricks. You can't force rapid change, half the country is always against us and every seat we wrestle from a republican is a victory.
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Right, "too much anti-Hillary rhetoric" is what lost her the nomination. She didn't have a viable message for working-class people; that's what lost her the nomination. If the next establishment Democrat up to bat doesn't have a viable message for working-class people, they will lose to Trump, too. So what is the establishment wing of the Democratic party doing right now to entice working-class people to vote for them in 2018 and 2020? Honest question

People all over the country are begging for change, nothing is forced, and nothing is so outlandish or bold that it couldn't become the law. These are things people from many different parts of the western world have and even many Republican voters support when framed the right way; universal healthcare, universal college, rebuilding domestic infrastructure, ending the drug war, etc. None of it is radical or "far left".

So that's what I'm working on, getting the people out of office who don't support these things for whatever reason and getting the people who do in positions to make them possible. There is no reason to support a politician like Joe Manchin if you're a Democratic voter.
 
tangerinegreen555 said:
I don't approve of those subsidies.

But I'll bet you $100. that they continue to get them, right or wrong.

You mention 'the will of the people' and numerous supporting polls frequently.

But there is an insulation layer, the congress. Your elected representatives.
If you want as much of your ideology represented in DC as you can personally get, then You know who to vote for.
If that's not good enough, you could wind up with no representation at all. (refer to 2016 presidential election.)

I'd love to see change and reform. But I know who the real enemy is in your scenarios. I'm not one to throw Democrats under the bus and let another Trump reach power.

Everybody who takes campaign money isn't a crook. I would judge them more by what they stand for than where there contributions came from and what they do for them.

How you think Trump is doing? We missed by a margin so narrow that a lot of different things impacted.
I can safely and honestly say that I didn't help Trump either directly or indirectly. Keeping him out was the prime directive, Bernie Sanders said as much.

But a hell of a lot of Democrats got on the right wing created 'crooked Hillary' bandwagon.

Hillary's dirt was methodically created by the right over 25 years. George W. had 11 Benghazi type incidents and Hillary's predecessor had the same private email set up. The whole thing makes a sane person vomit for fucks sake, already.

'Know thine enemy'
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I still think no campaign funding from corporate, SuperPAC or dark money is a big step forward.

I reject the excuse that 'we need it to win'- in large part because EVEN THAT ISN'T WORKING.

We lost the presidency, the Senate, Congress, the majority of governorships and 73 of 100 legislatures across the country.

When will the party apparatchiks and apologists here and elsewhere realize that it's time for a change?
 
Padawanbater2 said:
Right, "too much anti-Hillary rhetoric" is what lost her the nomination.
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No, the fact that she lost the election lead to another Scalia.

please be accurate while you complain about the country's direction and the reason why the SCOTUS will rule against your wishes going forward.

there's an ebb and flow in politics, but those SCOTUS seats last decades.
 
Anybody in this thread that doesn't think this country would be better off with ANY Democrat and without the Trump crew, please raise your hand.

If your hand isn't raised, YOU are the problem. Thanks for your help.
 
UncleBuck said:
including tty the turncoat.
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This is rude and makes you look bad- and worse, desperate.

I'm trying to make our country better for everyone, most certainly including those of color, religious minorites and the poorest of the poor.

If I was a racist I'd deserve such vitriol, but I'm not.

I disagree with your approach but that's what makes democracy a great thing.

And clearly you're biased against those with mental disabilities, yet another group who has suffered mightily under our politico economic system of the past half century.

If you'd like to be taken seriously, confine your personal slights to those who deserve them. Otherwise people will see you in the same light as our current president, for better- or worse.
 
Fogdog said:
Sanders didn't "fall behind" in the south, he was drubbed there and had lost the nomination before your state's caucus. Your belief is not the same as fact. Sanders didn't convince southern black voters who make up a large proportion of Democratic Party voters that he understood the difference between a jobs first policy and the equal right to a job for which one is qualified, regardless of race, religion or sexual orientation and how both are equally important. When Sanders was asked about wage and opportunity disparity all he did was talk about jobs growth.

I believe Sanders does understand the difference but I'm not sure Bernie's boys do.

Why should anybody listen to a person who is no better than Trump in telling the truth? That fat guy was telling you what you want to hear. But it was bullshit. Or at least the first few minutes were. Completely fabricated alternative facts. I don't want the party to go the way of the Republican fact free but sounds good mentality.

Did you know that in 2014, 100% of the Democratic Senate caucus voted for Sander's amendment to repeal Citizen's United? They could not get enough votes from republicans to break a filibuster. Less than a month later, the electorate of this country turned the Senate over to Republican control by voting out many of those senators. Explain again how the country will be energized into liberal utopia by taking on the corporations through the issue of campaign finance reform?
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Yet that vote isn't why they lost the majority.

Why don't you educate me as to why the Democratic Party has taken such a drubbing in recent elections? My best guess is that they've lost the confidence of the electorate that they represent the interests of the majority of voters.

Can you be more specific?
 
UncleBuck said:
i am pointing out to you the facts: republicans primaried their own and it was disastrous. it did not work out great for them, as you tried to claim.

facts have to matter at some point.
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The extreme polarization of today's politics is a direct result of the fact that people are being systematically disenfranchised.

That's why extreme candidates are getting more traction, because people are trying ANYONE who says they'll do the bidding of the average American.

If Bernie had run against Trump, he very likely would have won; I believe a populist from the left would have been the winner vs the Chump's populism from the right.

But I agree, that contest is over. However, I'm far from alone in thinking that Mr Sanders spoke to my interests and desires in government and he had a high degree of integrity.

I'm looking at the next crop of potential Democratic candidates, and I'm having trouble seeing past three old people; Sanders, Warren and Biden.

I am further left than you because I think both parties are too far to the right.

Yet, instead of finding common ground, you're sucked into the trap of screaming about our differences. That's happening throughout the country in the Democratic Party- and I got news for you, pal- THAT'S a losing strategy too!
 
ttystikk said:
The extreme polarization of today's politics is a direct result of the fact that people are being systematically disenfranchised.

That's why extreme candidates are getting more traction, because people are trying ANYONE who says they'll do the bidding of the average American.

If Bernie had run against Trump, he very likely would have won; I believe a populist from the left would have been the winner vs the Chump's populism from the right.

But I agree, that contest is over. However, I'm far from alone in thinking that Mr Sanders spoke to my interests and desires in government and he had a high degree of integrity.

I'm looking at the next crop of potential Democratic candidates, and I'm having trouble seeing past three old people; Sanders, Warren and Biden.

I am further left than you because I think both parties are too far to the right.

Yet, instead of finding common ground, you're sucked into the trap of screaming about our differences. That's happening throughout the country in the Democratic Party- and I got news for you, pal- THAT'S a losing strategy too!
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"bernie would have won" and "no you're the divisive one" in no way address the facts i posted about how primarying their moderates was a massive setback for the GOP.
 
UncleBuck said:
present evidence to the contrary or just sit there whining like the petulant child you are, fucktard.

i showed you 4 easy pickups that republicans blew by primarying their moderates. show me at least 5 that went the opposite direction, flaming pad.

facts are going to have to count for something at some point.
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And yet they're still sitting in complete control and you're talking about a few outlier cases.

You've stopped making sense and the constant insults make it easy to tune you out as just another partisan zealot. It's exactly what the average American is tied of and you're missing it.
 
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