rkymtnman
Well-Known Member
Bingo
"I don't support universal healthcare because we don't have the support in congress.."
- Thread starter Padawanbater2
- Start date
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
That's just disingenuous. You don't know it's drivel, you didn't watch it.
Corruption is the reason we don't have universal or single payer healthcare.
Corporate welfare and Citizens United are also issues he discussed.
I don't think you want to be part of a solution.
That's just lazy.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Incrementalism hadn't worked. It's time to step up the pressure.
I think a campaign based on those who do take money from corporations vs those who don't would produce some very surprising results.
Because the way things are is Social for cortisone and capitalism for private individuals.
Doesn't seem fair. And in fact, it isn't.
Why should Exxon get $40 billion in subsidies? Aren't they one of the world's most profitable corporations? Socialism for them but nothing for American citizen taxpayers?
Come on!
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
I'm not suggesting we put a bill in the table today. I'm suggesting we run progressive candidates and primary the crap out of sitting Democrats. It seems to have worked out well for the Republicans, after all!
The only requirement for these progressive candidates is that they don't take corporate or SuperPAC money.
The only requirement for these progressive candidates is that they don't take corporate or SuperPAC money.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
I gave the video more than the cursory five seconds out of respect to you. The dude is repeating the same false assumptions you repeat. Including the one about the Democratic party elites "chose" Hillary over Sanders. From there he goes on about they just aren't listening because of course Sanders would have won.
Sanders couldn't win the Democratic Primary. Yet you and that pudgy bloviating video speaker tout Sander's failure as proof the he'd win the general? What kind of logic is that?
The Young Turk makes no more sense than you do. His logic, if you can call it that, is based upon false assumptions and don't hold up to scrutiny. Bernie Sanders lost the south. He was drubbed, beaten, hardly won a single vote. Losing the South by huge margins was the cause of losing to Clinton in the primary. The claim that "Bernie would have won" is an unprovable hypothesis. So, prove to me that Bernie would have won and I'll sit down. But nobody can. Because he lost the primary before March 1.
So, ok, have your beliefs but that's all it is. Religious zealots demand that women should be denied abortions because they believe god is against it and you demand that nonbelievers in Sanders' invicibility just tow the line about your belief.
poppycock
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry you didn't get any further than ten seconds in, there were lots of good ideas.
By the way, Colorado's caucus was on March 1 and he was doing very well. He won here, for instance. It was the summer season in the South where he fell behind.
Wanting a better country for the rest of us isn't zealotry. Wanting to end the corporate stranglehold on our political system isn't anything like attempting to ban abortion, Mr Strawman.
I'm sorry you don't feel like these are fights worth having.
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Why do they want it repealed? Do they even know? I've never heard one say why.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
are you fucking retarded?
they primaried mike castle, got christine o'donnell instead, and she lost that seat to coons. would have been an easy pickup for castle.
in colorado they primaried norton, got ken buck, and he lost the seat to bennett.
in alaska, they primaried murkowski, got joe miller, and miller lost to a fucking write in campaign.
in indiana, they primaried lugar, got mourdock, and mourdock lost to joe donnely where lugar would have easily won.
the GOP would be close to a supermajority right now if not for the fact that they primaried their electable candidates in favor of ultra-right wingers.
you far left idiots are about as braindead as the far right. i'd rather work with rick wilson on legislation than bernie sanders at this point.
The hypothesis that Clinton would've won is unprovable too.
tangerinegreen555
Well-Known Member
I don't approve of those subsidies.
But I'll bet you $100. that they continue to get them, right or wrong.
You mention 'the will of the people' and numerous supporting polls frequently.
But there is an insulation layer, the congress. Your elected representatives.
If you want as much of your ideology represented in DC as you can personally get, then You know who to vote for.
If that's not good enough, you could wind up with no representation at all. (refer to 2016 presidential election.)
I'd love to see change and reform. But I know who the real enemy is in your scenarios. I'm not one to throw Democrats under the bus and let another Trump reach power.
Everybody who takes campaign money isn't a crook. I would judge them more by what they stand for than where there contributions came from and what they do for them.
How you think Trump is doing? We missed by a margin so narrow that a lot of different things impacted.
I can safely and honestly say that I didn't help Trump either directly or indirectly. Keeping him out was the prime directive, Bernie Sanders said as much.
But a hell of a lot of Democrats got on the right wing created 'crooked Hillary' bandwagon.
Hillary's dirt was methodically created by the right over 25 years. George W. had 11 Benghazi type incidents and Hillary's predecessor had the same private email set up. The whole thing makes a sane person vomit for fucks sake, already.
'Know thine enemy'
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
including tty the turncoat.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
i am not going to be polite to anyone who runs roughshod over the facts anymore. no more kid gloves for the far left. hillary did that to bernie and it didn't work. so i won't do it either.
they need to grow up and face reality. the GOP only hurt themselves by primarying their moderates. the same would hold true for the democrats.
Funny how you seem so familiar with stuff that happened here long before you were ever around. You sure love being a puppet, don't you?
tangerinegreen555
Well-Known Member
If you ask me, we could use a few more moderates on both sides.
And I consider myself quite liberal. But not stupid liberal.
Politics is, by nature, a shitty endeavor. Much like a union rep., half your constituents hate you and the other half think you should be doing more. You give your time and all you get is shit. And that's from somebody who knows, trust me. I have elected officials in my family and among my closest friends. It's not a big bowl of cherries, it's tedious work and somebody always has a complaint, as trivial as the majority of complaints are.
I still love this country and have high hopes for 2018 and 2020.
It would be nice to have a united Democratic party, but I'll work for them either way. It's all I can do.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
It's not a hypothesis. Clinton lost. It was a dirty contest. I'm over it.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Sanders didn't "fall behind" in the south, he was drubbed there and had lost the nomination before your state's caucus. Your belief is not the same as fact. Sanders didn't convince southern black voters who make up a large proportion of Democratic Party voters that he understood the difference between a jobs first policy and the equal right to a job for which one is qualified, regardless of race, religion or sexual orientation and how both are equally important. When Sanders was asked about wage and opportunity disparity all he did was talk about jobs growth.
I believe Sanders does understand the difference but I'm not sure Bernie's boys do.
Why should anybody listen to a person who is no better than Trump in telling the truth? That fat guy was telling you what you want to hear. But it was bullshit. Or at least the first few minutes were. Completely fabricated alternative facts. I don't want the party to go the way of the Republican fact free but sounds good mentality.
Did you know that in 2014, 100% of the Democratic Senate caucus voted for Sander's amendment to repeal Citizen's United? They could not get enough votes from republicans to break a filibuster. Less than a month later, the electorate of this country turned the Senate over to Republican control by voting out many of those senators. Explain again how the country will be energized into liberal utopia by taking on the corporations through the issue of campaign finance reform?
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Meh. I'm spreading the word to those who care about making our country a better place for all of us, not just the elites.
You apparently think things are fine. I disagree. I believe far more people agree with my position than yours.
Another difference between us is that I can disagree without being disagreeable.