Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
Thank you for the info man!
Personal experiences using LED in general and also Far Red - Faster Finishing Times.
- Thread starter Airwalker16
- Start date
Thundercat
Well-Known Member
I'll also add you might have a really fast Phenotype, totally possible. BUT starving your plants still leaves potential on the table 
. I'm not an advocate for heavy feeding, or for all kinds of nutes and boosters either! I am an advocate for growing healthy plants.
The best smoke comes from healthy plants with FULLY ripened slowly dried buds.
. I'm not an advocate for heavy feeding, or for all kinds of nutes and boosters either! I am an advocate for growing healthy plants. The best smoke comes from healthy plants with FULLY ripened slowly dried buds
.
Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
I don't know why you think they're starving. They're not. They're flushing. The buds that are white and whispy do not get big. Ever. This is my third time running it and it's getting shit canned cause it hasn't gotten any better.
The dad literally started like 5 days ago. So I emptied the res, which was low ph and above 600ppm, and refilled it with new to water and nutes of only 200ppm.
There's still nutrients in the solution if they wanted to uptake it. But they don't. They're fading like they do every time. And my ash is white as white can be.
growingforfun
Well-Known Member
People trying to help you makes it garbage?
If its garbage now then that's what it always was.. people trying to help you doesnt make it that way.
That isnt a good looking plant. It may do better if it wasnt so hungery, and you may need more light. If its truly done then I'd be interested to know the yield on it and some photos of the dried buds. It's possible they are bigger than they look, but...
OneHitDone
Well-Known Member
This has really shed some light on things.
Would you be open to flower under HPS at this point in your growing adventure?
Thundercat
Well-Known Member
Well you can think what you want, but they havn't been fed enough to be that yellow already. Don't get mad dude, I'm not trash talking you.
Plants don't usually naturally turn yellow at 45 days from flip. That is because you under fed them. If you just started flushing they wouldn't already be fading that fast. 600ppm is rather low. Those buds that you say won't get bigger need more food. If they are not uptaking the food it is because you have an environmental issue. They should not be that yellow that fast unless you underfed them. But its cool you really don't have to listen man. However I really man just trying to help you. Those plants had more potential then you are going to get from them this round. I'm glad you are happy with what you have thats awesome, and it looks like it will be nice smoke. BUT>>>>>>>>>You did not get the full potential of the genetics, and thats the name of this game.
Plants don't usually naturally turn yellow at 45 days from flip. That is because you under fed them. If you just started flushing they wouldn't already be fading that fast. 600ppm is rather low. Those buds that you say won't get bigger need more food. If they are not uptaking the food it is because you have an environmental issue. They should not be that yellow that fast unless you underfed them. But its cool you really don't have to listen man. However I really man just trying to help you. Those plants had more potential then you are going to get from them this round. I'm glad you are happy with what you have thats awesome, and it looks like it will be nice smoke. BUT>>>>>>>>>You did not get the full potential of the genetics, and thats the name of this game.
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
Weve had this aswell, early senesence and fall colors. Dont think it had to do with feeding as much as massive amounts of light. They were under 2000 diodes run at nominal but the whole fixture was real close. The rest of the grow with similar lighting in watts per area never did this. Only the plants that were absolutely covered in light with real low hanging height. We took all trays to 11 weeks even if we had fading on these trays, the final swell doesnt happen til late in our amnesia.
What everybody has failed to mention is what criteria they use for saying finished. This discussion is a bit pointless without that. Fading, final swelling or ambering tricomes. They dont all come att the same time always. What do people use for criteria?
What everybody has failed to mention is what criteria they use for saying finished. This discussion is a bit pointless without that. Fading, final swelling or ambering tricomes. They dont all come att the same time always. What do people use for criteria?
Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
My tricks are all milky on the ghost train.
Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
And thank you rocket soul, you're very right.
Everything under that dense yellowing is green as can be. Light is definitely a factor. I've even got them dimmed now.
Everything under that dense yellowing is green as can be. Light is definitely a factor. I've even got them dimmed now.
Thundercat
Well-Known Member
Those things don't happen at the same time, but they do typically happen in a pretty standard order of events. People judging harvest time off one criteria is over simplification. The whole plant needs to get looked at. Stigma turning red and receeding is usually one of the first signs, but does not mean the plant is done. It means it is nearing the end of that part of its growth.
AFTER that happens the plants will typically stop outward growth and begin to swell internally. This can be seen visibly once the individual bracts begin to fatten up. This usually takes 1-2 weeks AFTER most bud growth has stopped, and after the stigma receed.
Then finally the plant is finishing it ripening. This is when you can check trichomes is you want. Trichomes are not the be all end all of plant harvesting. Its pretty generally accpected that milky trichomes have peak THC. However its also been determined (I'd have to go looking for the info but its out there) that while THC does degrade into CBN, that it happens very slowly.
In my experience most long time growers learn to look at the plants and watch the whole big picture, rather then solely focusing on one single metric. While there is occasionally a plant that steps outside the normal order of things, what I laid out above is a VERY TYPICAL maturation process for cannabis plants. There really shouldn't be much debate about when plants are finished, because they will tell us when they are done.
It is really easy to harvest a plant early because it "looks done" or to think a plant is finished because you starved it to death and ya its "finished". What is much harder is growing plants that stay healthy till they express all the signs of properly ripened cannabis. Healthy plants will give the best representation of the genetic potential of a strain.
The best smoke comes from healthy plants with FULLY RIPENED buds.
Thegermling
Well-Known Member
Dude, imagine if we got our hands on that? Would it finish in 35 days with far red?
The last is incorrect way to monitor the flower stage. When you start to flower that same day the hormones that initiate flower are starting to redistribute in the plant.
Thundercat
Well-Known Member
Wrong. Flowering time begins when flowers start to form.
Look into the biology of plant growth phases. The plant goes through a "transition phase" between veg and flowering. Often times in science this is called the 'preflower stage", not to be confused with early signs of sex in veg which are called "preflowers". Flowering does not begin until flowers start to form.
The ONLY people I've ever seen say that flowering begins at 12/12 flip are some indoor pot growers. Pretty much everyone else understands that it takes time for the plant to actually begin to flower. If you were growing outside, you wouldn't say it was flowering until it began to show flowers.... Well indoor is not different in that regard.
Just because you can physically change the light schedule doesn't actually make you a god over your plants. They will still take however much time they need to actually start flowering. It all depends on the genetics and the environment. Most mature plants only take 7-10 days to transition into flower. HOWEVER some take much longer and if the genetics aren't actually mature before you switch them or the environment isn't ideal, then it can take weeks for them to transition. So counting from 12/12 flip is a totally arbitrary number that doesn't show an accurate length of time for the plant to mature. If you count from when the flowers form until whatever time the plant is finally done it gives the most accurate idea of the way the genetics will grow and mature.
This winter we had a bad cold snap, and my heater couldn't cut it. My room got down into the 50s for a few weeks. It made my clones take over 3 weeks to transition, and slowed their flowering. It didn't stunt them, I just harvested them, and they are dank, and have nice dense nugs. BUT they took an extra month of 12/12 time over any other time I've ran these clones(I've had this phenotype for over 4 years).
If you want to count time, go for it, but the plants won't finish until they are actually done. The number of weeks a breeder lists is totally irrelevant most of the time. If you are going to count time I don't really care when you count from either. But counting from 12/12 flip is just that its time from flip, not flowering time. FLowering time begins when the plants are flowering
.growingforfun
Well-Known Member
That's pointless to say is correct or incorrect. It's best to simply accept that roughly half the members here judge it one way or the other and be able to talk with both groups and understand what they mean.
I know my clone runs 70 days from flip or 56 days from sign of flower.
Thegermling
Well-Known Member
Thats a response to flower initiaton aka 12/12 etc. Google it. As soon as you put them in the flowering light cycle those plants start the bloom phase. Its simple botany. Too many forum paradigms on here man. Stick to sound gardening, what a good grower on here taught me.
If you dont know when the sunlight hours have been reduced (unless you check how many hours of light there is in youre area at a given time) then I could see that people would say "ok its flowering so this is week one." It was flowering well before that.
Thats the exact definition of stunted growth.
Totally agree on that.
Another forum paradigm.
Thundercat
Well-Known Member
Thats a response to flower initiaton aka 12/12 etc. Google it. As soon as you put them in the flowering light cycle those plants start the bloom phase. Its simple botany. Too many forum paradigms on here man. Stick to sound gardening, what a good grower on here taught me.
Lol I am sticking to sound gardening and actual botany bud, rather then guesstimates based on arbitrary numbers. Switching the lights doesn't make them instantly begin to flower. It allows the flowering hormone to START to build up in the plant. It takes an indefinable amount of time for that to happen depending on your plants and environment. If you interrupt that process soon enough it stops before the plant starts to actually flower.
If you put a seedling directly under 12/12 lighting it doesn't instantly start to flower. It takes weeks for the plant to reach genetic maturity THEN it starts to flower.
If you dont know when the sunlight hours have been reduced (unless you check how many hours of light there is in youre area at a given time) then I could see that people would say "ok its flowering so this is week one." It was flowering well before that.
Unfortunately no that's not the case because different genetics and environments will change when that initiation begins. So it's not just "oh cool there is "x" amount of light or dark hours now its instantly flowering." You can't accurately judge when a plant has began to flower by anything other then when it actually shows flowers.
Thats the exact definition of stunted growth.
It was not really stunned though, it was merely slowed down. The plants flowered to nearly their full potential still. They yielded good dense frosty nugs
Another forum paradigm.
This info never came from the forum, or from another grower specifically. This is from spending YEARS growing thousands of plants and reading lots of research on both cannabis growth and other plant growth. Nothing I said is actually debatable because it's backed by science. the things you are supporting are the "forum paradigms". You can not accurately determine flower length from an arbitrary number.
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CobKits
Well-Known Member
for sure. if you cut clones from thinned bottom branches that had any more than a few 12/12 cycles, even if they dont look like they are flowering you set the hormones in motion and they will flower while rooting
Thegermling
Well-Known Member
I recently took clones off a two week flowering plant. I knew that it would take awhile for these cuts to revert the hormones back to veg under a 24/0 schedule to initiate root production. It does take awhile.
getogrow
Well-Known Member
thunder is right , those plants are starving to "death" ....when the plant knows its going to die , it will finish early. its not finished , its dead. Flushing is the most overrated word on the internet....most dont even know what it means. imagine what them buds would of looked like if they wasnt forced to eat themselves ?
Thundercat
Well-Known Member
Yet that's called re vegging. At two weeks from 12/12 that plant should have been actually flowering or very close. So yes it would have to transition back I veg state which can be tough.
Many times I've taken plants into 12/12 for a few days(4-6)to encourage sexing and a little stretch, and then back into veg to clone them. Unless the plant had actually began to form flowers it never had any delay in going back to veg or had the clones try to flower.
I have had plants from very mature genetics very heavily preflower in veg and then the clones almost act like they were reveging after rooting. That was a weird one.
Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
Wrong.Wrong. Flowering time begins when flowers start to form.
Look into the biology of plant growth phases. The plant goes through a "transition phase" between veg and flowering. Often times in science this is called the 'preflower stage", not to be confused with early signs of sex in veg which are called "preflowers". Flowering does not begin until flowers start to form.
The ONLY people I've ever seen say that flowering begins at 12/12 flip are some indoor pot growers. Pretty much everyone else understands that it takes time for the plant to actually begin to flower. If you were growing outside, you wouldn't say it was flowering until it began to show flowers.... Well indoor is not different in that regard.
Just because you can physically change the light schedule doesn't actually make you a god over your plants. They will still take however much time they need to actually start flowering. It all depends on the genetics and the environment. Most mature plants only take 7-10 days to transition into flower. HOWEVER some take much longer and if the genetics aren't actually mature before you switch them or the environment isn't ideal, then it can take weeks for them to transition. So counting from 12/12 flip is a totally arbitrary number that doesn't show an accurate length of time for the plant to mature. If you count from when the flowers form until whatever time the plant is finally done it gives the most accurate idea of the way the genetics will grow and mature.
This winter we had a bad cold snap, and my heater couldn't cut it. My room got down into the 50s for a few weeks. It made my clones take over 3 weeks to transition, and slowed their flowering. It didn't stunt them, I just harvested them, and they are dank, and have nice dense nugs. BUT they took an extra month of 12/12 time over any other time I've ran these clones(I've had this phenotype for over 4 years).
If you want to count time, go for it, but the plants won't finish until they are actually done. The number of weeks a breeder lists is totally irrelevant most of the time. If you are going to count time I don't really care when you count from either. But counting from 12/12 flip is just that its time from flip, not flowering time. FLowering time begins when the plants are flowering
As far as breeders timing goes and the amount of days they suggest it takes,is meant to be interpreted as from the day you switch the light schedule.