Ppfd :-)
- Thread starter Kingrow1
- Start date
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
Yeah I don't disagree with any of that. Just trying to offer a counter-point in regards to long term cost savings. When I finally upgrade my system I plan on a combo of LED and CMH.
rkymtnman
Well-Known Member
if i had more space, a bare bulb 315 cmh hung vertically in between 4 plants and QBs that covered the whole ceiling. bam!
CanadianJim
Well-Known Member
Lots of guys are going that way. I've only seen one guy who had tried it say it sucked, and a bunch of others said it was great.
bk78
Well-Known Member
Literally busting my gut right now lmao
Moflow
Well-Known Member
Lots of different light charts
(μmol/s)/(PPFD) with respect to Hang height
Hey guys, I'm looking for fixture PAR maps and the μmol/s output for the PAR measurements taken. Doesn't matter if it's lensed or not. If you've a saved PAR map on your phone or computer, post it up, thanks! 1. Total μmol/s: 2. PAR map(s) Trying to asses real world correlation between PPFD...
www.rollitup.org
kmog33
Well-Known Member
1 1k de puts out about the same ppfd as 4 x 315s....which puts out about the same ppfd is 2 x 600s as far as tested data goes. So not a bad comparison as far as it’s concerned. 2 680s, regardless of efficiency is closer to 1500 watts than it is to 1k, so you looking more like 1 x 1k and 1.5 x 315s which would put your output somewhere between 2400-3000umol. I don’t know how much light those 680s actually put out, but at the point you have that much light in that much space, the issue becomes more space than light. Gpw/sq’ is probably a better way to look at it imo, but watt for watt, in the hands of a capable grower, all the systems you described(if not comparing 1300 watts to 1500 because that’s an extra 200 watts which is an additional pound under the circumstance you described with those 680s.
talking about what one grower can do with a specific light set up in a specific environment doesn’t really translate to real world results for everyone imo. Have you pulled 5.1# from 1500 watts? I have not and I do pretty well, but I would get your average grower, even with a decent amount of experience and resources to buy quality leds, is probably not going to hit this range in a system that isn’t completely dialed in. And I don’t Know what grows you’re looking at, but very few(especially on here) are dialed to the 2+ gpw range. Most are still fighting to hit one.
For me efficiency matters to the point of, do I grow more weed than I could buy with the overhead costs of my grow space. If I can produce enough bud in the space I have, I would rather focus on the health of my plants than the efficiency of my lights.
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kmog33
Well-Known Member
Light is absorbed or turns to heat. Sort of why light efficiency/spectrum is important. 70% efficient means 30% is put out pretty much as just heat as far as I understand.Light is heat - the more light the hotter it gets.
Eventually those with leds realise their light dosent spread and saturate the room or tent which is why you need to compensate for a lesser environment.
You openly stated led destroys cmh - wasnt refering to heat though were you, 5.1 yeild, cmh hps cant do etc etc.
kmog33
Well-Known Member
On point. Leds in cold climate can be shit for efficiency when you need to add a power heavy heater/hvac. Throw in a bunch of hids and your heat problem is solved by adding more light. Some like efficiency swaps here. Just because your light is efficient, doesn’t mean your room is.Ever grown in a cold basement?
I've said it many times, the best light is the one that best fits your situation.
kmog33
Well-Known Member
Why hps do well with “shitty” spectrum = ppfd output. At this point, 1k still wins in amount of useable light put out, which translate to penetration additionally. I’m personally into the cmh/de combo, seems to do great in my space. That said, I also run leds.You cant handle the discussion, ive given answers - Start with why led spectrum makes hps spectrum look shit but yet hps does pretty darn well.... Explanations please??????
Its all good trolling and copy pasting led rubbish but if you ever hope to deal with higher discussion then you will address the stuff thats already at hand and not revert back to.led troll default.
Kingrow1
Well-Known Member
Soooo much efficiency, funny how the sun is not very - check out how much percentage ir it kicks out.
Leds bullshitted the science - why every conversation with them turns toxic.
Leds bullshitted the science - why every conversation with them turns toxic.
Kingrow1
Well-Known Member
Its easy to find on this thread and everyother - leds claim superior light everything and 30% bigger yeilds for same watts over hps
kmog33
Well-Known Member
Leds are fine, but like any other light, they have pros AND cons. There is also such thing as too much light, and I’ve found if I’m over 1100umole, I have feeding problems and it’s much harder to keep the plants healthy. I’m into using whatever works though...so I have a lot of convos.Its easy to find on this thread and everyother - leds claim superior light everything and 30% bigger yeilds for same watts over hps
Kingrow1
Well-Known Member
Well that was the purpose of the thread, im finding light levels for each stage and that most of the info and light charts have me too close at times and working in ppfd or umols gives me a better scale.
Leds are great lights, their history and attitude here let alone failings to discuss why that shitty hps spectrum they were meant to kill does so darn well less than reputable.
Some suggested i was inviting led argument... this just one in many environment threads where im trying to pin exact numbers down and ive done the same for wind speed recently amongst one or two other topics like temps. Ive seen research labs grow other plants using all this data and just wanted to get to that level and also work out the set for mj.
I see seedlings at 100-200umols but this is just taken from base info and leaves a 4x24w t5 unit let alone 250w hps pretty high above jusr to achieve such low level. So is this why seedlings can do so well in windows but bum out under lights.
I grow but i have so.much fine detail ahead
Leds are great lights, their history and attitude here let alone failings to discuss why that shitty hps spectrum they were meant to kill does so darn well less than reputable.
Some suggested i was inviting led argument... this just one in many environment threads where im trying to pin exact numbers down and ive done the same for wind speed recently amongst one or two other topics like temps. Ive seen research labs grow other plants using all this data and just wanted to get to that level and also work out the set for mj.
I see seedlings at 100-200umols but this is just taken from base info and leaves a 4x24w t5 unit let alone 250w hps pretty high above jusr to achieve such low level. So is this why seedlings can do so well in windows but bum out under lights.
I grow but i have so.much fine detail ahead
Kingrow1
Well-Known Member
If led peeps want to join in then lets forget what is the best light.... lets compare some seedlings umols and your light hanging distances or at what umol are plants bumming out in veg or flower and such. Be way more intresting and t5 leds are getting a bit more use thesedays so they seem cool hopefully cheap
hybridway2
Amare Shill
Grow consistency.You would expect hps to be dead by now as well but seems to be as strong as ever - wtf happened there?
hybridway2
Amare Shill
Here's why we dont use hps much anymore.Well that was the purpose of the thread, im finding light levels for each stage and that most of the info and light charts have me too close at times and working in ppfd or umols gives me a better scale.
Leds are great lights, their history and attitude here let alone failings to discuss why that shitty hps spectrum they were meant to kill does so darn well less than reputable.
Some suggested i was inviting led argument... this just one in many environment threads where im trying to pin exact numbers down and ive done the same for wind speed recently amongst one or two other topics like temps. Ive seen research labs grow other plants using all this data and just wanted to get to that level and also work out the set for mj.
I see seedlings at 100-200umols but this is just taken from base info and leaves a 4x24w t5 unit let alone 250w hps pretty high above jusr to achieve such low level. So is this why seedlings can do so well in windows but bum out under lights.
I grow but i have so.much fine detail ahead
This 1000w hps barely has the ppfd of this led at 4'.
Putting out twice as much light per watt might have something to do with it.Mind you, you can grow 6"-48" with the led certain led w/o hurting the plant. Others,not so much.
Then to top it off the spectrum is much fuller having monos integrated into the white for chloro peaks.
My led strips put out 480wof T-5 output using 100w.
Yeah!
Depending on the spectrum & desighn/layout will determine your useful ppfd.
They can vary quite a bit between leds.
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hybridway2
Amare Shill
I do not want a dead even ppfd or spread. What i showed is how I like it for 2 reasons. 1) overlap would be higher then centerOn paper led rocks but in reality it cant match its paper data - is that a spectrum problem? Historically thats always been a stumbling block.
Im all for leds becomoling the best light but i just cant see it yet.
Personally its a non issue, i just hated how led posters hated on everyone else and thought there was a better way to co-exist.
Id also.like to see an even ppfd over the whole tent from leds, different voltages to each diode maybe idk but theres more they could push than just the basic models
2) slightly reduced edges allow wall reflection to even out edge #'s in a tent.
hybridway2
Amare Shill
Cmh has been known to equally perform to a 600w hps. Same growers hands. Because of spectrum. Better weed.
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