Boycott China.

neosapien

Well-Known Member
What did he prove untrue? It's not a fucking bio-weapon. Why not cite something if you believe that hasn't been proven?
Sorry but the burden is on you to cite something if you're saying it's true. You said it's been proven that it originated in the wet market. Zedd showed it was nothing more than a letter you produced. Did it start in that wet market? Looks likely. But still unproven and that's where I drew the line.
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
I agree that the Chinese government is corrupt and murderous. But after this it's pretty clear to see that most are. Trump had weeks, a month to prepare. Did nothing. Lots of dead.

I put Spanish in parentheses to emphasize how dangerous it is to put a region to a disease.

Everybody just references Humphries really. Like USA today?

Go YouTube Thailand wet market right now. Go YouTube Vietnam wet market right now.
I already know that the Triads operate in Thailand and Vietnam and bring critically endangered animals through those places to get to PRC. PRC is the only country where that shit is legal. The bushmeat markets in PRC are far bigger and traffic far more animals from every part of the world. The only country with a vast and vibrant market (not even a black market) for critically endangered animals for bushmeat is PRC. It is legal in no other country. A few small outlying places where a hidden corner is used to accommodate the PRC market does not spread the blame around.

Not everyone references Humphries. There's also the Langford study and the Sagepub metadata with the archives of several countries.
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
Sorry but the burden is on you to cite something if you're saying it's true. You said it's been proven that it originated in the wet market. Zedd showed it was nothing more than a letter you produced. Did it start in that wet market? Looks likely. But still unproven and that's where I drew the line.
I did cite an article in Nature. You're grasping at straws because you want a smoking gun. The CCP hid the smoking gun. We'll never get to study patient zero. The evidence is clear enough to conclude. It's a whole lot more than "looks likely". It's the evidence. The only other plausible explanation is an accidental lab leak from Wuhan, still the CCP's fault compounded by their cover-up.
 

neosapien

Well-Known Member
I did cite an article in Nature. You're grasping at straws because you want a smoking gun. The CCP hid the smoking gun. We'll never get to study patient zero. The evidence is clear enough to conclude. It's a whole lot more than "looks likely". It's the evidence. The only other plausible explanation is an accidental lab leak from Wuhan, still the CCP's fault compounded by their cover-up.
I agree completely. But it's still not "proven". And maybe, probably never will be. So we should use language like maybe, probably.

If you look at the study I cited about the 1918 flu, which was published just last year, they think it's likely that it started somewhere in North America and was around since maybe 1915. But no one will ever truly know the origins of that either.
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member

CONCLUSION:
Our analyses clearly show that SARS-CoV-2 is not a laboratory construct or a purposefully manipulated virus.
we propose two scenarios that can plausibly explain the origin of SARS-CoV-2: (i) natural selection in an animal host before zoonotic transfer; and (ii) natural selection in humans following zoonotic transfer.
1) intermediate host, such as a pangolin
1. Natural selection in an animal host before zoonotic transfer
As many early cases of COVID-19 were linked to the Huanan market in Wuhan1,2, it is possible that an animal source was present at this location.
2) no intermediate host, mutated in patient zero
2. Natural selection in humans following zoonotic transfer
It is possible that a progenitor of SARS-CoV-2 jumped into humans, acquiring the genomic features described above through adaptation during undetected human-to-human transmission.
3) lab escape
3. Selection during passage
Basic research involving passage of bat SARS-CoV-like coronaviruses in cell culture and/or animal models has been ongoing for many years in biosafety level 2 laboratories across the world27, and there are documented instances of laboratory escapes of SARS-CoV28. We must therefore examine the possibility of an inadvertent laboratory release of SARS-CoV-2.

In theory, it is possible that SARS-CoV-2 acquired RBD mutations (Fig. 1a) during adaptation to passage in cell culture, as has been observed in studies of SARS-CoV11. The finding of SARS-CoV-like coronaviruses from pangolins with nearly identical RBDs, however, provides a much stronger and more parsimonious explanation of how SARS-CoV-2 acquired these via recombination or mutation19.
The conclusion is what the analyses clearly show. It wasn't engineered or manipulated. It's not a fucking bioweapon.

The 3 hypothesis are posited in order of the likelihood they match the reality of the situation. All 3 of them lay the blame for the virus being introduced to humans solely upon the government of the PRC. You don't get absolutes in science. You get theory. Even gravity is a fucking theory. Whether you like it or not, I have sufficiently satisfied the burden to cite something for the conclusion that the CCP is absolutely and solely to blame for the pandemic.
If you look at the study I cited about the 1918 flu, which was published just last year, they think it's likely that it started somewhere in North America
No it doesn't. It examines this question and derives no conclusion.
Why would he blame an entire nation of people, he didn't say government he said people
Completely untrue. You're just full of shit on this one. You're obvious modus operandi consists of nothing more than insults and falsehood.
 
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neosapien

Well-Known Member

CONCLUSION:



1) intermediate host, such as a pangolin

2) no intermediate host, mutated in patient zero

3) lab escape

The conclusion is what the analyses clearly show. It wasn't engineered or manipulated. It's not a fucking bioweapon.

The 3 hypothesis are posited in order of the likelihood they match the reality of the situation. All 3 of them lay the blame for the virus being introduced to humans solely upon the government of the PRC. You don't get absolutes in science. You get theory. Even gravity is a fucking theory. Whether you like it or not, I have sufficiently satisfied the burden to cite something for the conclusion that the CCP is absolutely and solely to blame for the pandemic.

No it doesn't. It examines this question and derives no conclusion.

Completely untrue. You're just full of shit on this one. You're obvious modus operandi consists of nothing more than insults and falsehood.
No. It started in China.

Is that not you?
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
Is that not you?
Is this supposed to be coherent? Yes, I cited a natgeo article that cited the Humphries research. That research did indeed make the same conclusion that natgeo published. You cited a study with no conclusion.

I never went out of my way to blame the people and not the government as you say. In fact I have been very specific in my arguments.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Why would he blame an entire nation of people, he didn't say government he said people, for the 1918 pandemic when it isn't true. To sow hate. It's things like that that show his true intent.
Where does he say he blames all the people of China? He's clearly talking about its government and policies.

I agree that the Chinese government is corrupt and murderous. But after this it's pretty clear to see that most are. Trump had weeks, a month to prepare. Did nothing. Lots of dead.

I put Spanish in parentheses to emphasize how dangerous it is to put a region to a disease.

Everybody just references Humphries really. Like USA today?

Go YouTube Thailand wet market right now. Go YouTube Vietnam wet market right now.
If you are talking about what to do, then, yes wet markets are a topic of discussion. The really criminal act by the government of China is the cover up that there even was a problem early on suppression of information from China during that critical time. It swung from one authoritarian position to another after it became clear this virus is vicious in spread and effect.

The US has it's own problems with its leadership. The story of how it became a pandemic begins with authoritarian suppression of people and information by authorities in China in early January through late February. This is just example of many. Along with the OP, I'm just asking why are we doing business at all with that system?
 

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
Exactly. It was always so myopic and greedy to have manufacturing jobs over there in the name of profit for the business owners. For a while, it seemed ok, since products were cheap. Those were good jobs that went over there where wages are extremely low and environmental laws don't exist. Any savings in the prices of the junk have been lost (and then some) not just by the poor quality of those products, but by the fucking pandemic. It was not worth the cost to do business with the CCP.

To add insult to injury, all this revenue they have generated by seducing western industries into their sphere has enabled them to enact some of the worst atrocities being committed in modern times. It's time to cut it out.
Is where you live not just as bad though (not the markets) for cheap labour with very little or no worker rights? China is just one of many countries around the world that corporations seek out to get product made as cheap as possible to fill the pockets of their shareholders.
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
Where does he say he blames all the people of China? He's clearly talking about its government and policies.


If you are talking about what to do, then, yes wet markets are a topic of discussion. The really criminal act by the government of China is the cover up that there even was a problem early on suppression of information from China during that critical time. It swung from one authoritarian position to another after it became clear this virus is vicious in spread and effect.

The US has it's own problems with its leadership. The story of how it became a pandemic begins with authoritarian suppression of people and information by authorities in China in early January through late February. This is just example of many. Along with the OP, I'm just asking why are we doing business at all with that system?
Exactly. It was always so myopic and greedy to have manufacturing jobs over there in the name of profit for the business owners. For a while, it seemed ok, since products were cheap. Those were good jobs that went over there where wages are extremely low and environmental laws don't exist. Any savings in the prices of the junk have been lost (and then some) not just by the poor quality of those products, but by the fucking pandemic. It was not worth the cost to do business with the CCP.

To add insult to injury, all this revenue they have generated by seducing western industries into their sphere has enabled them to enact some of the worst atrocities being committed in modern times. It's time to cut it out.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
I agree that the Chinese government is corrupt and murderous. But after this it's pretty clear to see that most are. Trump had weeks, a month to prepare. Did nothing. Lots of dead.

I put Spanish in parentheses to emphasize how dangerous it is to put a region to a disease.

Everybody just references Humphries really. Like USA today?

Go YouTube Thailand wet market right now. Go YouTube Vietnam wet market right now.
Trump had years to prepare. One of the last things Obama did was try to set Trump up for success in the case of a pandemic, but like true Trump fashion, he claims he knows more than anyone, disbanded the team that would have gotten ahead of this pandemic, and blames everyone else when it blows up in his face (and asks governors to 'take the blame' for him).

https://apnews.com/ce014d94b64e98b7203b873e56f80e9a
Screen Shot 2020-03-31 at 7.04.56 AM.png


 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
Is where you live not just as bad though (not the markets) for cheap labour with very little or no worker rights? China is just one of many countries around the world that corporations seek out to get product made as cheap as possible to fill the pockets of their shareholders.
China is extremely belligerent over here too. They violate this country's sovereignty on a daily basis. I'm just waiting to see what the Japanese military does when the PLA tries to take advantage of the distraction. They most certainly will.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
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