This isn't over.

Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
schuylaar said:
'i don't have any it's just a feeling'
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A classic response especially for republican/conservative americans. They basically admit they don’t apply critical thinking and use “I feel...” instead of “I think” or at least “I suspect” followed by reasoning. I’m mainly familiar with the expression when it comes to the weather and whether it’s going to rain/storm, and as a response to “how do you know god exists?”

schuylaar said:
america 72M right 77M left..too close for comfort.
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Yeah but I think at the very least 20M of the 72M voted republican regardless of Trump. Voted republican because that’s what they did last time, and what their parents did. With a 2-party system, over time it seems to come close to almost an equilibrium. Make up a bunch of proposals, divide them randomly over 2 fictional parties, and people would probably vote close to 50-50 too. It’s historically rare for one side to reach 60% or more.

Taking that in consideration, 72M vs 77M isn’t all that bad.

If there were some way to force a split-up of both the dems and the gop, and have 4 parties across the spectrum, Trump would be far right and his party would likely receive less votes than center-right and center-left. The latter two would end up forming a coalition to gain a majority, and possibly sometimes center-left and farther-left would form a coalition for a temporary shift to the left because of things like climate change and socialistic healthcare. Far-right Trump would have a harder time forming a coalition with center-right unless his party would be the largest, which I think is an unlikely scenario. Center-right would have less problems forming a coalition with center-left because center-right voters wouldn’t have to worry about scary socialism. There are many countries where that works to prevent extremes from gaining a majority, but then also a few where it doesn’t... like Hungary and Poland.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
A classic response especially for republican/conservative americans. They basically admit they don’t apply critical thinking and use “I feel...” instead of “I think” or at least “I suspect” followed by reasoning. I’m mainly familiar with the expression when it comes to the weather and whether it’s going to rain/storm, and as a response to “how do you know god exists?”


Yeah but I think at the very least 20M of the 72M voted republican regardless of Trump. Voted republican because that’s what they did last time, and what their parents did. With a 2-party system, over time it seems to come close to almost an equilibrium. Make up a bunch of proposals, divide them randomly over 2 fictional parties, and people would probably vote close to 50-50 too. It’s historically rare for one side to reach 60% or more.

Taking that in consideration, 72M vs 77M isn’t all that bad.

If there were some way to force a split-up of both the dems and the gop, and have 4 parties across the spectrum, Trump would be far right and his party would likely receive less votes than center-right and center-left. The latter two would end up forming a coalition to gain a majority, and possibly sometimes center-left and farther-left would form a coalition for a temporary shift to the left because of things like climate change and socialistic healthcare. Far-right Trump would have a harder time forming a coalition with center-right unless his party would be the largest, which I think is an unlikely scenario. Center-right would have less problems forming a coalition with center-left because center-right voters wouldn’t have to worry about scary socialism. There are many countries where that works to prevent extremes from gaining a majority, but then also a few where it doesn’t... like Hungary and Poland.
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lulz

The US hits a rough patch and the world wants to tell us how to fix it. Canada and now the Netherlands. Western countries said the same kinds of things when the Articles of the Federation didn't work out. They said the same kinds of things when the Civil War broke out. We fuck up every now and then. As we did in 2016.

We are figuring it out. But thanks for the advice. And, no, we aren't going to embrace monarchy. That's what the Trumps were trying to establish and it was a near thing but we are going to clean them out of the People's House.

2024 is going to be another mess. Thanks in advance for the free advice.
 
S

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
it's got to be black shoe polish the kind you get in the round can for shoe shine..from the clump factor it looks like he combed it through to darken the gray on his sideburns- you can see where it came off and the hair is gray if you zoom in.

1605898734243.png

what a cheap fvcker- he can't afford Grecian Formula?
 
Bagginski

Bagginski

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
It didn’t for Hitler.

Probably not common in a 2-party system but Trump still got a higher % of votes than uhm... Hitler. :)

I agree though, if Biden works out well and Trump doesn’t get reelected in 2024, you didn’t do that bad at all.


Any book that makes you believe Socrates, the founder of western philosophy, one of the greatest critical-thinkers and intellectuals who walked the earth, is like fox news and Sean Hannity should be burned together with its probably christian author.

“If the news you bring me does not have the truth, is not good or useful to you, me, or the society, then, why bother telling it at all?” -Socrates

His crime in the eyes of the athenians was refusing to acknowledge exclusively the gods approved by the state and “corrupting the youth” by telling them ”To find yourself, think for yourself“, to think for themselves, rationally, which was a threat to believers.

His greatest lesson to the world was the Socratic method, dialectics, exactly what discussions on any level nowadays usually lack, the desire to find the truth through reason and rational critical thinking. Does that sound like Sean Hannity to you?

Maybe in the US but in monarchies that is actually a well-recognized advantage and one of the few roles the king or queen has left. Downgraded to be a national mascot.
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The book was an eye-opener for me, but the Socratic method wasn’t ’dialectic’ - that was Hegel, many years later. Structurally, the Socratic method was to stimulate thought by posing questions - which he was clearly good at; and maybe not fair to blame Socrates for the misuse of his teachings by his students, but not judge the book by me - or by the supposed Christianity of its Jewish author.

For what it’s worth, I agree with Socrates about the unexamined life not being worth living, and about the importance of the Delphic admonition, “Know Thyself”. Still, it is true that students of Socrates ruled various city-states as tyrants, (mis)used what they learned from their master to do it, and they had to be overthrown in bloody revolts - several Greek tragedies about them IIRC.

And I can solidly assure you the John Birch Society wing of US “conservative” craziness keeps Plato’s Republic very close to their hearts - right next to their dreams of a return to a less-free, more top-down society in which servants know their place and serve ‘joyfully’: I used to listen to them talk about it, it was they who encouraged Plato upon me - and yes, I was once among them.
 
S

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
A classic response especially for republican/conservative americans. They basically admit they don’t apply critical thinking and use “I feel...” instead of “I think” or at least “I suspect” followed by reasoning. I’m mainly familiar with the expression when it comes to the weather and whether it’s going to rain/storm, and as a response to “how do you know god exists?”


Yeah but I think at the very least 20M of the 72M voted republican regardless of Trump. Voted republican because that’s what they did last time, and what their parents did. With a 2-party system, over time it seems to come close to almost an equilibrium. Make up a bunch of proposals, divide them randomly over 2 fictional parties, and people would probably vote close to 50-50 too. It’s historically rare for one side to reach 60% or more.

Taking that in consideration, 72M vs 77M isn’t all that bad.

If there were some way to force a split-up of both the dems and the gop, and have 4 parties across the spectrum, Trump would be far right and his party would likely receive less votes than center-right and center-left. The latter two would end up forming a coalition to gain a majority, and possibly sometimes center-left and farther-left would form a coalition for a temporary shift to the left because of things like climate change and socialistic healthcare. Far-right Trump would have a harder time forming a coalition with center-right unless his party would be the largest, which I think is an unlikely scenario. Center-right would have less problems forming a coalition with center-left because center-right voters wouldn’t have to worry about scary socialism. There are many countries where that works to prevent extremes from gaining a majority, but then also a few where it doesn’t... like Hungary and Poland.
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are you in The Netherlands?

Trump won't be back for 2024- he'll be busy.
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
lulz

The US hits a rough patch and the world wants to tell us how to fix it. Canada and now the Netherlands. Western countries said the same kinds of things when the Articles of the Federation didn't work out. They said the same kinds of things when the Civil War broke out. We fuck up every now and then. As we did in 2016.

We are figuring it out. But thanks for the advice. And, no, we aren't going to embrace monarchy. That's what the Trumps were trying to establish and it was a near thing but we are going to clean them out of the People's House.

2024 is going to be another mess. Thanks in advance for the free advice.
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Yikes, you sound a bit like the CCP responding to criticism on China. As if I hit a nationalistic nerve because I dared to criticize the holy constitution.

Equating monarchy to Trump’s desired autocracy is just wrong, as you know. That’s of the same level as saying the US is a constitutional republic but not a democracy.

There’s nothing rational about the “they said the same things when ...” stuff. As if unasked and bad advice hundreds of years ago means anything now. As if the ”other western countries” form a hundreds of years old entity that should be distrusted and ignored. If that’s your thing, you might enjoy Russia.

It’s ok to fuck up now and then but when it’s the most powerful and thus potentially the most dangerous country in the world, with a military presence in our backyard, you can’t expect others not to comment on it. Especially when we’ve seen it before. Don’t expect non-Americans to keep their opinions to themselves as if it doesn’t concern them, because it does. So in advance, you are most welcome, please pass it on to Biden :)

I’m obviously not suggesting you go monarchy, as you know too, or go multiparty for that matter, I was illustrating the close margin isn’t as close as it seems and that that would be more obvious in case there were for example 4 parties.

schuylaar said:
are you in The Netherlands?
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Born, raised, and harvested.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
lulz

The US hits a rough patch and the world wants to tell us how to fix it. Canada and now the Netherlands. Western countries said the same kinds of things when the Articles of the Federation didn't work out. They said the same kinds of things when the Civil War broke out. We fuck up every now and then. As we did in 2016.

We are figuring it out. But thanks for the advice. And, no, we aren't going to embrace monarchy. That's what the Trumps were trying to establish and it was a near thing but we are going to clean them out of the People's House.

2024 is going to be another mess. Thanks in advance for the free advice.
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Political science encompasses more than American politics, myself, I've just mentioned things other Americans are thinking and options they are mulling over, the Americans who will actually do something about it. Human nature is transnational, political systems just try to contain and direct it in hopefully a beneficial direction. America has and will learn lessons from the successes and failures of others. The current lesson involves fascism, it's causes and prevention.
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
Yikes, you sound a bit like the CCP responding to criticism on China. As if I hit a nationalistic nerve because I dared to criticize the holy constitution.

Equating monarchy to Trump’s desired autocracy is just wrong, as you know. That’s of the same level as saying the US is a constitutional republic but not a democracy.

There’s nothing rational about the “they said the same things when ...” stuff. As if unasked and bad advice hundreds of years ago means anything now. As if the ”other western countries” form a hundreds of years old entity that should be distrusted and ignored. If that’s your thing, you might enjoy Russia.

It’s ok to fuck up now and then but when it’s the most powerful and thus potentially the most dangerous country in the world, with a military presence in our backyard, you can’t expect others not to comment on it. Especially when we’ve seen it before. Don’t expect non-Americans to keep their opinions to themselves as if it doesn’t concern them, because it does. So in advance, you are most welcome, please pass it on to Biden :)

I’m obviously not suggesting you go monarchy, as you know too, or go multiparty for that matter, I was illustrating the close margin isn’t as close as it seems and that that would be more obvious in case there were for example 4 parties.


Born, raised, and harvested.
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It is hard when you have Trump making dick jokes like this to not get defensive when talking about Trump and pseudo-royalty.

Took me a while to figure out what "NL" meant, I was really getting concerned I didn't know which Canadian province that was.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
hanimmal said:
It is hard when you have Trump making dick jokes like this to not get defensive when talking about Trump and pseudo-royalty.
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We were straying into the classics and the roots of political science Athenian democracy, the power of rhetoric and "dangerous" ideas. History holds many lessons for America and the founding fathers were all students of history, from the Greeks to the English civil war 150 years before your revolution. All the lessons were rolled into the constitution, a synthesis, something new, someone had dared put it on paper and make it real.
 
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