DWC Root Slime Cure aka How to Breed Beneficial Microbes
- Thread starter Heisenberg
- Start date
OldSoulScorpio
New Member
Hey Heisenberg. Please bare with me as this is my first post, i literally just registered to ask some questions. Are you adding kangaroots to your nutrient solution or brewing it for maintenance? I been using hydrozyme and hydroguard in my solution for 20 years with amazing results, never any problems.. So i decided to up my game and started using orca, mammoth p , with my hydrozyme last run and did well just mixing into my nutrient solution. I picked up some king crab and microbial mass pro mixing it intermittently into my nutrient solution and now have brown foam and ph drops like crazy every since. i been add more bennies to the res but see its the wrong way to add bennies, i been wasting money and should be brewing it..
i run rdwc with chiller and was wondering do i add the aact to my nutrients solution, or to my epicenter after adding my nutrients solution?
Can i use botanicare pure blend tea as ewc for your recipe?
Is Xtreme tea brew ok to use as an emergency? It says not recommended to keep in reservoir for more then 2 days tho, why is that?
Is all aact safe for hydroponics or anything i should stay away from?
Hi-brix molasses ok for your recipe? I hear mix reviews on it.
learninlzaily
Member
Hey guys, I have been doing battle for about 6 months with slime, root rot and now DIATOMS. Over the past month I have read this thread in its entirety. I wanted to Thank everyone for this tread which has become my grow bible, I have tried almost every product and hack to fix my issues. I know this tread is super old, and yet it is still alive, which speaks to its vast knowledge base. I wanted to share my journey from mushy rotten roots to white pearly beautiful ones and also to list my mistakes so people don't make the same ones i did.
I have been running RDWC for about 6 runs, and my last two runs had to be terminated early due to root rot. the first few runs had no issues. I used to run hydro guard, but switched to southern AG with no issues. But the last two runs, i could not kill the rot which showed up a few weeks into flower. I was running a RDWC with waterfalls (450gph pump) and air stones(100gph pump), one 8 inch in both of the 13 gal buckets and one in the res(also 13gal bucket). I was using 2l ice bombs to keep temps around 68-70.
After the failures I decided to tear down my system and build a new 2 site system. I wanted to use the CCH20 multimod buckets for their bottom drain. Building this system i wanted to eliminate the airstones because in my mind they were adding too much heat and possibly contributing to my root rot. The system consisted of 3, 13gal multimod buckets, two plant sites and one res outside of the tent. The netpots are the CCH20 medium less setup,(I thought eliminating the hydroton would help with the root rot by not giving bad bugs a place to live). return pipes are 3 inch pvc and supply lines are 3/4 pvc which go into the plant buckets and have holes drilled into them to spray the top of the water to add O2, 5 sprayers on top of the water, and a pipe that goes to the bottom of the bucket with a sprayer to stir the buckets from the bottom, one hole at the bottom and one about half way down, In my mind this would stir the buckets and keep me from having dead spots of low O2. I am also using a danner 1200gph pump, I know its overkill but wanted the pressure to really move water through the sprayers. Also bought an RO machine and have 0 ppm starting water.
My first try with the new system has until recently been an absolute failure. My first mistake was to put my clones in the new system before they developed strong enough roots, My solution to this problem is going to be taking the clones out of the cloner and put them into a single site DWC bucket with an air stone with tea until they have a large enough root ball to handle the RDWC.
From day one I had issues. Clones went yellow and roots went brown. I was running Floranova series with all the additives (which was the same stuff i was running when i had my good runs). I also switched to Advanced Calmag because I got a gallon of it for a great deal. (looking back i stared using this on the run where things starting going wrong, more on that later). After one day I had a brown film on all the pvc in my buckets and on all the walls and net pots. After multiple cleanings and much research, I determined that i had Diatoms. This thread had mixed results when dealing with diatoms, I only had bad results. Things that I tried and Did not work at getting rid of Diatoms include: Cleaning the system with strong bleach, Physan 20, H202, vinegar, ClearRes, both by themselves and one after another(always flushing with plenty of water before returning plants. Also treated the roots with more diluted solutions of each. I Tried running Flyingskull Z7, Pondzyme, Southern AG, Orca, King Crab, great white...ect both alone and in different combinations. I bought a chiller and kept temps at 65, NOTHING WOULD KILL THESE DIATOMS. I insulated, re insulated and triple insulated for any light leaks to no avail. After a strong sterilization the stuff would come back in 2-3 days, after a weak cleaning it was back within hours.
ENTER THE TEA- So i planned on taking new cuttings from a mother and starting over, but wanted to figure out what was going on before putting new plants into the system, the plants in the system stayed around 5 inches tall for almost a month while i tried to kill the diatoms. I started a tea regiment a month ago, I wanted the most diverse tea i could muster, and luckily enough I had a TON of different products. My tea recipe started as:
3 gal RO water
1/2 cup EWC
1/2 cup Alaskan humus (couldn't get AF, these made a good replacement)
2ml Southern AG
1/4tsp great white
1/4tsp recharge
3ml Orca
3ml King Crab
10ml Floralicious plus
20ml Florablend
10ml Rapidstart
60ml Myocum
dash of Mikrobs
dash of Mikro-H2O
50 watt air pump and a bubble snake, bubble for 48 hours with a fishtank heater at 78 degrees F
at hour 46 I add 1/4 tsp Mikro-Myco (Mycorrhizal Fungi) 1/4 tsp Mikro-Root (Trichoderma)
Been adding 2 gal to 32 gal res at nute change and 4 cups every day to every other day.
I know, Overkill again, but was on a mission to kill this stuff, and had almost everything listed sitting on a shelf. After one day I saw little white roots poppin, 2 days and the color was coming back the the little plants. But the Diatoms were still there. More research told me to cut my silica, which I did. Still had them. I looked at all my bottles, and after seeing several posts about Flora Nova, I decided to switch to the GH 3 part. Still seeing Diatoms, but to a far less extent, I could stand to leave the res for a week, when before i was draining every other day or so. But still having problems, plants looked better but still not growing like they used to. Then I looked at my bottle of AN calmag, and right there on the bottle it said With KELP... I Cut this out and replaced with Botinacare calmag plus which has no organics. I now have no signs of the Diatoms. I still get gunk on my sprayers and screens, but this was not the same as the diatoms, and what i can only attribute to the particles from the tea.
Over the past month I have had awesome root growth. I never have had roots this white in RDWC and am thinking that even in my good runs I had issues, I have never had something so health to compare to. The plants are about a 12-16 inches tall, great color leaves praying. I have upped my chiller from 65-67 to 70-72, It kicks on so infrequently now (plus for the electric bill). I no longer add any organics to the res, I put any organic additives into my Tea and haven't had any issues. My tea keeps in the fridge for one week and no issues there either.
My nutes are now as follows
in the res:
GH three part 1-1-1
Botanicare calmag
as of this week i began adding back GH Armor-si(silica) which i was worried about because Diatoms eat silica, but so far no issues.
In the tea:
Floralicious Plus
Florablend
rapidstart
I also foliar feed Optic foliar Transport, Watts and REV every other day ( I believe these replace the Saturator and Liquid Light Heisenberg is so fond of) I also bought a bottle of Snow Storm Ultra i will be adding next week.
Now that my roots and plants look so great( good enough I felt that I could top them) I have been dialing back my tea. I still have all the listed products, but don't use every one every time. The additives i still add (F+, FB & RS) but some batches get Greatwhite, some get Orca/king crab..ect, I don't really measure anymore, just a dash or a splash, with no ill effects. roots are still white and plants are doing daily prayers. I also only brew 2 gallons now and only add 1gal at res change and 2 cups either every day or every other day.
I am supper happy with my results and so thankful for Heisenberg, Mr Bond and all others who contributed to this tread. Anyone dealing with root issues should not knock the tea until they try it, and for those who have issues with Diatoms, just keep with it, Cut the silica and any organics from the res until you stop getting the diatom film for a few weeks. I plan on exparimenting with adding back some of the nutes that have organics in them ( i have gallons of floranova and AN calmag) just to use them up. But am so much happier with the GH 3 part, a much cleaner experience in my opinion.
I know Heis never thought he would be contributing to this tread 10+ years later, but am so happy that this thread is still kicking, I do have a few questions if he reads this post:
-Have you used the Optic foliar products (am i right that these replace the saturator and liquid light? If so how do you apply?
-How do you apply your Kangaroots? (if i understand you use this instead of the tea unless you have issues?)
-If i understand you mix your Snow Storm with saturator(transport) and foliar feed (but not on days your use LL+sat)
-Do you recommend adding Snow Storm to the res?
-Do you think i can get away with just using the sprayers to add DO or should I add air stones into the system.
If these questions were answered in the thread I apologize, I could have missed them when taking notes.
Thanks again, sorry for the novel, but I hope that at least someone finds my journey helpful.
I have been running RDWC for about 6 runs, and my last two runs had to be terminated early due to root rot. the first few runs had no issues. I used to run hydro guard, but switched to southern AG with no issues. But the last two runs, i could not kill the rot which showed up a few weeks into flower. I was running a RDWC with waterfalls (450gph pump) and air stones(100gph pump), one 8 inch in both of the 13 gal buckets and one in the res(also 13gal bucket). I was using 2l ice bombs to keep temps around 68-70.
After the failures I decided to tear down my system and build a new 2 site system. I wanted to use the CCH20 multimod buckets for their bottom drain. Building this system i wanted to eliminate the airstones because in my mind they were adding too much heat and possibly contributing to my root rot. The system consisted of 3, 13gal multimod buckets, two plant sites and one res outside of the tent. The netpots are the CCH20 medium less setup,(I thought eliminating the hydroton would help with the root rot by not giving bad bugs a place to live). return pipes are 3 inch pvc and supply lines are 3/4 pvc which go into the plant buckets and have holes drilled into them to spray the top of the water to add O2, 5 sprayers on top of the water, and a pipe that goes to the bottom of the bucket with a sprayer to stir the buckets from the bottom, one hole at the bottom and one about half way down, In my mind this would stir the buckets and keep me from having dead spots of low O2. I am also using a danner 1200gph pump, I know its overkill but wanted the pressure to really move water through the sprayers. Also bought an RO machine and have 0 ppm starting water.
My first try with the new system has until recently been an absolute failure. My first mistake was to put my clones in the new system before they developed strong enough roots, My solution to this problem is going to be taking the clones out of the cloner and put them into a single site DWC bucket with an air stone with tea until they have a large enough root ball to handle the RDWC.
From day one I had issues. Clones went yellow and roots went brown. I was running Floranova series with all the additives (which was the same stuff i was running when i had my good runs). I also switched to Advanced Calmag because I got a gallon of it for a great deal. (looking back i stared using this on the run where things starting going wrong, more on that later). After one day I had a brown film on all the pvc in my buckets and on all the walls and net pots. After multiple cleanings and much research, I determined that i had Diatoms. This thread had mixed results when dealing with diatoms, I only had bad results. Things that I tried and Did not work at getting rid of Diatoms include: Cleaning the system with strong bleach, Physan 20, H202, vinegar, ClearRes, both by themselves and one after another(always flushing with plenty of water before returning plants. Also treated the roots with more diluted solutions of each. I Tried running Flyingskull Z7, Pondzyme, Southern AG, Orca, King Crab, great white...ect both alone and in different combinations. I bought a chiller and kept temps at 65, NOTHING WOULD KILL THESE DIATOMS. I insulated, re insulated and triple insulated for any light leaks to no avail. After a strong sterilization the stuff would come back in 2-3 days, after a weak cleaning it was back within hours.
ENTER THE TEA- So i planned on taking new cuttings from a mother and starting over, but wanted to figure out what was going on before putting new plants into the system, the plants in the system stayed around 5 inches tall for almost a month while i tried to kill the diatoms. I started a tea regiment a month ago, I wanted the most diverse tea i could muster, and luckily enough I had a TON of different products. My tea recipe started as:
3 gal RO water
1/2 cup EWC
1/2 cup Alaskan humus (couldn't get AF, these made a good replacement)
2ml Southern AG
1/4tsp great white
1/4tsp recharge
3ml Orca
3ml King Crab
10ml Floralicious plus
20ml Florablend
10ml Rapidstart
60ml Myocum
dash of Mikrobs
dash of Mikro-H2O
50 watt air pump and a bubble snake, bubble for 48 hours with a fishtank heater at 78 degrees F
at hour 46 I add 1/4 tsp Mikro-Myco (Mycorrhizal Fungi) 1/4 tsp Mikro-Root (Trichoderma)
Been adding 2 gal to 32 gal res at nute change and 4 cups every day to every other day.
I know, Overkill again, but was on a mission to kill this stuff, and had almost everything listed sitting on a shelf. After one day I saw little white roots poppin, 2 days and the color was coming back the the little plants. But the Diatoms were still there. More research told me to cut my silica, which I did. Still had them. I looked at all my bottles, and after seeing several posts about Flora Nova, I decided to switch to the GH 3 part. Still seeing Diatoms, but to a far less extent, I could stand to leave the res for a week, when before i was draining every other day or so. But still having problems, plants looked better but still not growing like they used to. Then I looked at my bottle of AN calmag, and right there on the bottle it said With KELP... I Cut this out and replaced with Botinacare calmag plus which has no organics. I now have no signs of the Diatoms. I still get gunk on my sprayers and screens, but this was not the same as the diatoms, and what i can only attribute to the particles from the tea.
Over the past month I have had awesome root growth. I never have had roots this white in RDWC and am thinking that even in my good runs I had issues, I have never had something so health to compare to. The plants are about a 12-16 inches tall, great color leaves praying. I have upped my chiller from 65-67 to 70-72, It kicks on so infrequently now (plus for the electric bill). I no longer add any organics to the res, I put any organic additives into my Tea and haven't had any issues. My tea keeps in the fridge for one week and no issues there either.
My nutes are now as follows
in the res:
GH three part 1-1-1
Botanicare calmag
as of this week i began adding back GH Armor-si(silica) which i was worried about because Diatoms eat silica, but so far no issues.
In the tea:
Floralicious Plus
Florablend
rapidstart
I also foliar feed Optic foliar Transport, Watts and REV every other day ( I believe these replace the Saturator and Liquid Light Heisenberg is so fond of) I also bought a bottle of Snow Storm Ultra i will be adding next week.
Now that my roots and plants look so great( good enough I felt that I could top them) I have been dialing back my tea. I still have all the listed products, but don't use every one every time. The additives i still add (F+, FB & RS) but some batches get Greatwhite, some get Orca/king crab..ect, I don't really measure anymore, just a dash or a splash, with no ill effects. roots are still white and plants are doing daily prayers. I also only brew 2 gallons now and only add 1gal at res change and 2 cups either every day or every other day.
I am supper happy with my results and so thankful for Heisenberg, Mr Bond and all others who contributed to this tread. Anyone dealing with root issues should not knock the tea until they try it, and for those who have issues with Diatoms, just keep with it, Cut the silica and any organics from the res until you stop getting the diatom film for a few weeks. I plan on exparimenting with adding back some of the nutes that have organics in them ( i have gallons of floranova and AN calmag) just to use them up. But am so much happier with the GH 3 part, a much cleaner experience in my opinion.
I know Heis never thought he would be contributing to this tread 10+ years later, but am so happy that this thread is still kicking, I do have a few questions if he reads this post:
-Have you used the Optic foliar products (am i right that these replace the saturator and liquid light? If so how do you apply?
-How do you apply your Kangaroots? (if i understand you use this instead of the tea unless you have issues?)
-If i understand you mix your Snow Storm with saturator(transport) and foliar feed (but not on days your use LL+sat)
-Do you recommend adding Snow Storm to the res?
-Do you think i can get away with just using the sprayers to add DO or should I add air stones into the system.
If these questions were answered in the thread I apologize, I could have missed them when taking notes.
Thanks again, sorry for the novel, but I hope that at least someone finds my journey helpful.
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
Sorry for the late response. I'm sure you've probably already answered these questions for yourself by now.
Optic foliar products do appear to be equivalent to the prior dutch master sprays.
If you've tried the Optic Foliar products I would be interested in hearing about your experience.
I got away from these products because of a powdery mildew problem. I was growing in a basement at the time and adding moisture to my tent in the form of foliar spraying wasn't a good idea. While looking for a mildew resistant strain I ended up with an amazing hybrid that produced huge heavy plants to the point that extra products would seem to only add incremental benefits. I literally just use the GH micro and bloom at this point.
Optic foliar products do appear to be equivalent to the prior dutch master sprays.
I only use kangaroots for newly rooted cuttings now, mostly to just give the roots a starting boost. Again I think the strain I use is resistant to root pathogens and an initial inoculation seems to do the trick. I haven't made tea or seen any slime for many years (though I always have the ingredients handy just in case). Kangaroots can be added directly to the res 15-20 ml per 5 gal, preferably first diluted slightly in a cup of water and poured over the root crown.
I only used SS for a short time but yes, alternate foliar feedings. At this point if I used those products I think it would be LL once a week for the stretch phase and SS once or twice during the "weight gain" phase. But I don't have any real insight.
No I would def just foliar feed, especially in a slime-prone environment. You could try a test bucket to see if it becomes a problem.
I think sprayers would add plenty of DO but air stones do offer housing for beneficials to colonize. If you think of it as risk vs benefit there isn't any downside.
If you've tried the Optic Foliar products I would be interested in hearing about your experience.
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
Thank you I ordered MycoGrow soluble and some ewc in the mean time I’m trying htg stump tea I seen it had everything we needed as far as bacteria, one thing I’m wondering is what is the proper way to treat with the Physan 20? I got some coming hopefully
Well I decided to just use the tea and not soak the roots in anything wow just doing that has been an awesome turn around my plants went from not growing at all for 3 weeks to having 6 inches of growth or more in a week since starting the tea nice white roots and shoots coming in, I did have some black gunk in a few buckets I think those ones were the worse affected I just rinsed the roots off every few days then added more tea they are doing awesome thank you Heisenberg. I wish I knew about this stuff years ago doing flood tables
rkymtnman
Well-Known Member
maybe? what dosage are you using for the southern ag?
ponics42o
Well-Known Member
I'm running 1ml per bucket which is probably about 3.5 gallons of water. I think I'm putting more than needed actually lol.
Checked roots again today and yeah they seem more orange than brown so maybe I'm good? Regardless I'll be switching the water out every 7 to 10 days.
Billy the Mountain
Well-Known Member
It's not from any color/dye in the nutes. If so, the color would be uniform.
rkymtnman
Well-Known Member
how often?
ponics42o
Well-Known Member
Damn, I will keep a close eye on it.
I only add it after every water change which is usually between 7 to 10 days.
rkymtnman
Well-Known Member
i'd try every other day for a week and see what happens . you can't really overdose it
ponics42o
Well-Known Member
I checked the roots today and the discoloring is gone, it's pearl white at the moment.
I think the Southern AG is working its magic cause my grow tent has been averaging like 80 degrees in the past week. But I will go ahead and add a dash of it every other day.
Billy the Mountain
Well-Known Member
South AG works well for pythium
Pics from a previous pythium battle using Southern AG:
I chopped off all the exposed roots with a pair of scissors
Four days from the second to the last picture.
FWIW, I had another plant in the next bucket that I treated with Chlorine (Calcium Chloride at ~ 4-8 ppm). I stopped after a few days as it was clear the Southern AG treatment was working better. Both plants recovered nicely.
ponics42o
Well-Known Member
Billy the Mountain
Well-Known Member
No idea, I didn't do an A/B test (chopping off bad roots vs. not), I can only attest that the new roots grew back rapidly.
I started 12/12 a week after the last pic.
Yield and end results were the same as previous, pythium-free runs fwiw
Andy Anderson
Member
Hi, everyone!
I've been struggling with slime and brown roots for months. Now bewing my first batch of tea using ahornsirup instead of molasses (ordered one already).
Recently, I got a water chiller for 100 bucks, 5 gallon insulated bucket and can keep any res temp I want. Currently it's set between 64-66 degree. The tea is being brewed at 71-72. Should I increase the res temp to 71-72 before applying the tea, or just keep it at 64-66 and pour some extra tea?
I've been struggling with slime and brown roots for months. Now bewing my first batch of tea using ahornsirup instead of molasses (ordered one already).
Recently, I got a water chiller for 100 bucks, 5 gallon insulated bucket and can keep any res temp I want. Currently it's set between 64-66 degree. The tea is being brewed at 71-72. Should I increase the res temp to 71-72 before applying the tea, or just keep it at 64-66 and pour some extra tea?
