Why Does Milk Cost More Than Gas?

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
By Nicholas von Hoffman, The Nation. Posted July 20, 2007.

Our unabated appetite for gas-guzzling cars and the wrongheaded belief that ethanol is the answer means pricey milk for everyone.​

The other day milk was selling in a New England supermarket at $4.79 a gallon. Down the street, regular gasoline was going for about $3.04 a gallon.

One of the factors driving up the cost of milk is the ethanol stampede. Ethanol, as we all have been taught to believe by now, will bring us "energy independence" and lessen global warming with no change in the way we live -- unless we happen to be a small child in a household with a limited budget.

Children from low-income families are either going to have to accustom themselves to drinking gasoline or learn to sing "No Milk Today."

American ethanol is made from corn, and the more corn we use to feed our cars, the more expensive is the corn left over for our livestock. Ergo, "No Milk Today."

If ethanol we must have, we could import it from Brazil, where they can make it cheaper from sugar cane than Americans can make it from corn. But Brazilian ethanol, thanks to the agribusiness lobby and a 54-cent-per-gallon import tariff, is kept out of the country.

Politicians of both parties, mad for winning elections in corn-growing Iowa, do not mention the cheaper Brazilian stuff. Their silence on lesser-cost alternative ethanol sources may help them please Midwestern agribusiness interests and just about nobody else.

But nobody else seems to know that, although it is not for lack of available information. The ethanol fraud has been exposed on mainstream TV on programs like ABC's 20/20.

If ethanol is a failure as a practical short-term gasoline substitute, it is a political success. It will be years before ethanol has even a minor beneficial effect, which matters not to American politicians intent on slow-poking on climate warming, pollution and our ever-constricting energy sources. Kid the voters into thinking something is being done when it is not.

The energy bill gradually making its way through Congress contains a section upping the fuel-economy standards on gasoline-powered vehicles to take full effect when? In the year 2020. As of now cars in Europe and Japan get many more miles to the gallon than cars in America.

The last time the government imposed fuel-efficiency standards on cars was thirty-two years ago. In the intervening generation, car makers have learned to make more energy-efficient engines, but their technical progress has been defeated by making ever-larger automobiles. The Wall Street Journal reports that "models that started out as subcompacts have grown to become more like midsize models. Honda Motor Co.'s Civic CRX, a mid-1980s two-seater of 20 years ago, was 12 feet long and weighed about 1,700 pounds. Today's Civic sedan is nearly three feet longer and weighs about 900 pounds more. Even the smaller Honda Fit, considered almost impossibly small today, is larger than the mid-1980s Civic CRX."

The world is many years away from inventing and deploying oil substitutes. The present American policy of doing nothing until that day comes is short-sighted, idiotic and, ultimately, costly. Instead of making windy speeches about our "oil addiction," our politicians should be at work making sure we use less of the stuff now.

Two measures of immediate effect could be put in place now. The first is to reduce speed limits on roads built with federal dollars. The second is a tax on the horsepower and weight of new cars. This should be an annual tax, not a one-time levy so that only the very rich will find that they can afford to drive overweight gas guzzlers.

Why should the rich get to guzzle gas when the rest of us cannot? Because, as someone once said, the rich are different. But we can also place a ruinous tax on their private airplanes. That ought to make the rest of us feel better even as, at long last, we take effective measures to deal with climate and energy.
 

medicineman

New Member
By Nicholas von Hoffman, The Nation. Posted July 20, 2007.

Our unabated appetite for gas-guzzling cars and the wrongheaded belief that ethanol is the answer means pricey milk for everyone.

The other day milk was selling in a New England supermarket at $4.79 a gallon. Down the street, regular gasoline was going for about $3.04 a gallon.

One of the factors driving up the cost of milk is the ethanol stampede. Ethanol, as we all have been taught to believe by now, will bring us "energy independence" and lessen global warming with no change in the way we live -- unless we happen to be a small child in a household with a limited budget.

Children from low-income families are either going to have to accustom themselves to drinking gasoline or learn to sing "No Milk Today."

American ethanol is made from corn, and the more corn we use to feed our cars, the more expensive is the corn left over for our livestock. Ergo, "No Milk Today."

If ethanol we must have, we could import it from Brazil, where they can make it cheaper from sugar cane than Americans can make it from corn. But Brazilian ethanol, thanks to the agribusiness lobby and a 54-cent-per-gallon import tariff, is kept out of the country.

Politicians of both parties, mad for winning elections in corn-growing Iowa, do not mention the cheaper Brazilian stuff. Their silence on lesser-cost alternative ethanol sources may help them please Midwestern agribusiness interests and just about nobody else.

But nobody else seems to know that, although it is not for lack of available information. The ethanol fraud has been exposed on mainstream TV on programs like ABC's 20/20.

If ethanol is a failure as a practical short-term gasoline substitute, it is a political success. It will be years before ethanol has even a minor beneficial effect, which matters not to American politicians intent on slow-poking on climate warming, pollution and our ever-constricting energy sources. Kid the voters into thinking something is being done when it is not.

The energy bill gradually making its way through Congress contains a section upping the fuel-economy standards on gasoline-powered vehicles to take full effect when? In the year 2020. As of now cars in Europe and Japan get many more miles to the gallon than cars in America.

The last time the government imposed fuel-efficiency standards on cars was thirty-two years ago. In the intervening generation, car makers have learned to make more energy-efficient engines, but their technical progress has been defeated by making ever-larger automobiles. The Wall Street Journal reports that "models that started out as subcompacts have grown to become more like midsize models. Honda Motor Co.'s Civic CRX, a mid-1980s two-seater of 20 years ago, was 12 feet long and weighed about 1,700 pounds. Today's Civic sedan is nearly three feet longer and weighs about 900 pounds more. Even the smaller Honda Fit, considered almost impossibly small today, is larger than the mid-1980s Civic CRX."

The world is many years away from inventing and deploying oil substitutes. The present American policy of doing nothing until that day comes is short-sighted, idiotic and, ultimately, costly. Instead of making windy speeches about our "oil addiction," our politicians should be at work making sure we use less of the stuff now.

Two measures of immediate effect could be put in place now. The first is to reduce speed limits on roads built with federal dollars. The second is a tax on the horsepower and weight of new cars. This should be an annual tax, not a one-time levy so that only the very rich will find that they can afford to drive overweight gas guzzlers.

Why should the rich get to guzzle gas when the rest of us cannot? Because, as someone once said, the rich are different. But we can also place a ruinous tax on their private airplanes. That ought to make the rest of us feel better even as, at long last, we take effective measures to deal with climate and energy.
The Hydrogen pill. Where are those guys? Turns water into hydrogen, Amen!
 

ViRedd

New Member
Good article for the most part, but I take exception to the forced reduction of speed limits and an annual tax on horsepower. Not suprising that the author would be for these government controls, after all, the article was in The Nation, *lol*

The answer to our oil dependence isn't corn. It isn't taxes. It isn't lighter cars. The answer is to go completely nuclear for our energy. That would leave plenty of oil to run our Big Block Chevies on.

Vi
 

Wavels

Well-Known Member
Ethanol is indeed a fraud and is not a viable petroleum substitute....
I agree with Vi's assessment of article...
Certain brands of bottled water cost more than milk or gas per gallon....???
 

medicineman

New Member
Good article for the most part, but I take exception to the forced reduction of speed limits and an annual tax on horsepower. Not suprising that the author would be for these government controls, after all, the article was in The Nation, *lol*

The answer to our oil dependence isn't corn. It isn't taxes. It isn't lighter cars. The answer is to go completely nuclear for our energy. That would leave plenty of oil to run our Big Block Chevies on.

Vi
And small blocks, my small block makes more HP than any factory bigblock ever did.
 

krime13

Well-Known Member
You guys need to save your millions and switch to a jap customized, however I was rather impressed with the new dodge chergers as far as the feul economy goes, and yes, its got a hemi.
 

Token

Well-Known Member
Good article for the most part, but I take exception to the forced reduction of speed limits and an annual tax on horsepower. Not suprising that the author would be for these government controls, after all, the article was in The Nation, *lol*

The answer to our oil dependence isn't corn. It isn't taxes. It isn't lighter cars. The answer is to go completely nuclear for our energy. That would leave plenty of oil to run our Big Block Chevies on.

Vi

I'd have to disagree with you vi the answer isn't nuclear either to dangerous and you would need a power plant close to a major city and if it ever failed millions would suffer. the answer is still out there, if your looking for just one source of energy. Also American ethanol can be made from any veggie just like alcohol. I think the answer is a combo of everything wind farms solar panels hydrogen compressed air(for cars in the city) hydro dams thermal heat(like in greenland).
 

ThatPirateGuy

Well-Known Member
The last time the government imposed fuel-efficiency standards on cars was thirty-two years ago. In the intervening generation, car makers have learned to make more energy-efficient engines, but their technical progress has been defeated by making ever-larger automobiles. The Wall Street Journal reports that "models that started out as subcompacts have grown to become more like midsize models. Honda Motor Co.'s Civic CRX, a mid-1980s two-seater of 20 years ago, was 12 feet long and weighed about 1,700 pounds. Today's Civic sedan is nearly three feet longer and weighs about 900 pounds more. Even the smaller Honda Fit, considered almost impossibly small today, is larger than the mid-1980s Civic CRX."


I understand the authors point....but how the fuck are we supposed to carpool (which is being pushed heavily by conservationists everywhere) if we all drive two seater cars that weigh 8 pounds soaking wet

 

medicineman

New Member
The last time the government imposed fuel-efficiency standards on cars was thirty-two years ago. In the intervening generation, car makers have learned to make more energy-efficient engines, but their technical progress has been defeated by making ever-larger automobiles. The Wall Street Journal reports that "models that started out as subcompacts have grown to become more like midsize models. Honda Motor Co.'s Civic CRX, a mid-1980s two-seater of 20 years ago, was 12 feet long and weighed about 1,700 pounds. Today's Civic sedan is nearly three feet longer and weighs about 900 pounds more. Even the smaller Honda Fit, considered almost impossibly small today, is larger than the mid-1980s Civic CRX."


I understand the authors point....but how the fuck are we supposed to carpool (which is being pushed heavily by conservationists everywhere) if we all drive two seater cars that weigh 8 pounds soaking wet
Crotch rockets!
 

ViRedd

New Member
For those of you who are interested, here's a pretty complete analysis of the true cost, both economical and ecological of producing oil from corn:

Ethanol

I remain firm in my assessment that nuclear is the way to go.

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
If one person has a right to something he didn't produce, simultaneously and of necessity it means that some other person does not have right to something he did produce. .......................................................................... Here's something to think about VI, How about I produce a big fat turd and give it to you. ~LOL~.
 

ViRedd

New Member
If one person has a right to something he didn't produce, simultaneously and of necessity it means that some other person does not have right to something he did produce. .......................................................................... "Here's something to think about VI, How about I produce a big fat turd and give it to you. ~LOL~."
Well, that certainly adds a bright note to the discussion. Geeze Med, if my anti-Communist signature bothers you that much, perhaps you could counter it with something other than the desire to produce a fat, smelly lump. Like a reasonaby intelligent post for example. :blsmoke:

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
For those of you who are interested, here's a pretty complete analysis of the true cost, both economical and ecological of producing oil from corn:

Ethanol

I remain firm in my assessment that nuclear is the way to go.

Vi
I totally agree that ethanol is a Joke, however, being a great conspiratorist, I believe the hidden gem is in water, the pure fuel. Oxygen and hydrogen for combustion, separation and recombination. The secret already found and hidden away by the oil barrons and the auto mfgrs. And what is the polution caused by this perfect fuel, water vapor. This could be used to power everything on the planet, electrical, water purification from salt water, etc, the perfect fuel. All we have to do is wrestle the secret from the vaults of Big oil, the vault that NO-ONE IS ALLOWED TO LOOK IN.
 

ViRedd

New Member
I totally agree that ethanol is a Joke, however, being a great conspiratorist, I believe the hidden gem is in water, the pure fuel. Oxygen and hydrogen for combustion, separation and recombination. The secret already found and hidden away by the oil barrons and the auto mfgrs. And what is the polution caused by this perfect fuel, water vapor. This could be used to power everything on the planet, electrical, water purification from salt water, etc, the perfect fuel. All we have to do is wrestle the secret from the vaults of Big oil, the vault that NO-ONE IS ALLOWED TO LOOK IN.
Well, I can see why the oil barons would be secretive about a water vapor fuel, but why on earth would auto makers be opposed? After all, Med ... aren't the auto makers greedy, fat-cat capitalists who put profit before their own mother's lives? It seems to me, if an auto maker would be the first to come out with a alternate type of car that runs on nothing more than water vapor, the car buying public would wear a path to their door. Hell, even I and my fellow conservatives, who support messy, greasy, black-spewing, filthy oil, and all it represents, including those beautiful, rainbow colored oil slicks shimmering on pristine seas, would be clamoring for a car that runs on freakin' water! *lol* :mrgreen:

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
Well, that certainly adds a bright note to the discussion. Geeze Med, if my anti-Communist signature bothers you that much, perhaps you could counter it with something other than the desire to produce a fat, smelly lump. Like a reasonaby intelligent post for example. :blsmoke:

Vi
What, I thought that very appropriate for a response to that bit of nonsense in your signature. as in " if you dont produce, you get nothing, Nothing". So anyone that doesnt produce should be removed from your earth. What's your Nickname, God?
 

ViRedd

New Member
Here's the signature again, Med. Please point out where is says: "If you don't produce, you get nothing." Thanks ...

"If one person has a right to something he didn't produce, simultaneously and of necessity it means that some other person does not have right to something he did produce."

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
Well, I can see why the oil barons would be secretive about a water vapor fuel, but why on earth would auto makers be opposed? After all, Med ... aren't the auto makers greedy, fat-cat capitalists who put profit before their own mother's lives? It seems to me, if an auto maker would be the first to come out with a alternate type of car that runs on nothing more than water vapor, the car buying public would wear a path to their door. Hell, even I and my fellow conservatives, who support messy, greasy, black-spewing, filthy oil, and all it represents, including those beautiful, rainbow colored oil slicks shimmering on pristine seas, would be clamoring for a car that runs on freakin' water! *lol* :mrgreen:

Vi....................Uhhh, in case you haven't noticed, there is a huge amount of collusion between them.
 
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