3 days on jack's 5-12-26 and the plants are loving it! Bye bye General Hydroponics forever

Fuckingatodeaso

Fuckingatodeaso

Member
jonnynobody said:
Watch 51:50 of GreenGene's video up there. Fucking epic knowledge bomb :)
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That's right. The casparian strip does not allow organic material to pass through it. I've told people that plants don't utilize organic material for growth in the root zone but rather the biproduct of microbiological activity there but they don't want to hear it. It's the same when I tell people that over 80 percent of a cows diet is saturated fat due to microbiological activity in the rumen but I see the same look of bewilderment.
 
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jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
Fuckingatodeaso said:
That's right. The casparian strip does not allow organic material to pass through it. I've told people that plants don't utilize organic material for growth in the root zone but rather the biproduct of microbiological activity there but they don't want to hear it. It's the same when I tell people that over 80 percent of a cows diet is saturated fat due to microbiological activity in the rumen but I see the same look of bewilderment.
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People ignore the truth when it doesn't align with their deeply held igorance....I mean beliefs :) dam brain fart typo.
 
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newbplantgrower420

Well-Known Member
rkymtnman said:
i run the RO formula with well water and need nothing else. iv'e never tried 321 myself.
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ya i run it with my tap water 0.4ec.... its great just not perfect.

i just had some purple leaves early flower when they started budding along with some calcium deficiencies here and there.

couldve been my pH being over 6. i think i kept it like 6.3 in hydro this time.... not really anal about pH these days. as long as its anywhere from 5.5-6.5
 
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jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
rkymtnman said:
i run the RO formula with well water and need nothing else. iv'e never tried 321 myself.
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Shit why would you wanna monkey with 321 when Jack's tap is kicking ass for you? I'm all about simple. If it ain't broke. Don't fix it :)

Still awaiting a reply from the fine folks at Peters about my finish formula question. The pot I just dried and smoked grown with jacks is so effing good I'm willing to do anything to my plants Peters suggests. Clearly they know what the fuck they're doing! I haven't had good soil tasting pot since the last time I used jacks 321 in my hydro buckets. They say use a finish formula? Done. I have no reason not to trust them at this point. They're basically the only fertilizer company I've ever dealt with that is honest, professional, and treat their customers like family. Not to mention their fertilizer grows the best tasting hydro pot I've ever had in my life! I feel like these mofos need to put me on the marketing payroll :)

I just shopped around for and ordered a 25# bag of Jack's finish formula for $83 with shipping. Of course I paid the extra $3 for the sticker pack! :)

Light speed ahead fellas!
 
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jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
newbplantgrower420 said:
ya i run it with my tap water 0.4ec.... its great just not perfect.

i just had some purple leaves early flower when they started budding along with some calcium deficiencies here and there.

couldve been my pH being over 6. i think i kept it like 6.3 in hydro this time.... not really anal about pH these days. as long as its anywhere from 5.5-6.5
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If you are doing hydro you really need to set your PH to 5.8 or so. Soil is 6.3-6.5. Certain elements become unavailable to the plant if the PH is out of range. Jacks is incredibly stable. When you set it once it doesn't move a single tenth of a point for 8 days in a stationary bubbling res. There is no excuse to not PH. It takes like 2 minutes. Have a coke and a smile while you knock that shit out in the interest of frosty nuggy goodness. Sorry, didn't mean to get all technical on you there. I only break out the word nuggy for the real serious conversations :)
 
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newbplantgrower420

Well-Known Member
jonnynobody said:
If you are doing hydro you really need to set your PH to 5.8 or so. Soil is 6.3-6.5. Certain elements become unavailable to the plant if the PH is out of range. Jacks is incredibly stable. When you set it once it doesn't move a single tenth of a point for 8 days in a stationary bubbling res. There is no excuse to not PH. It takes like 2 minutes. Have a coke and a smile while you knock that shit out in the interest of frosty nuggy goodness. Sorry, didn't mean to get all technical on you there. I only break out the word nuggy for the real serious conversations :)
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all the nutrients ive used over the years my pH always rises in the first day or two then stays somewhat stable. ill set it at ~6 after dumping in the nutes then next day i come itll be up to a 6.4. i just left it at 6.4 this time. couldve been the reason for the purpling of leaves idk. its here and there.

ill try dropping it to 5.5ph after dumping in the nutes next time then let it fluctuate to a 6.0 and leave it.

dont know why that is exactly... could be rockwool as my medium or the most likely its the tap water i use that causes ph to rise initially
 
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jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
newbplantgrower420 said:
all the nutrients ive used over the years my pH always rises in the first day or two then stays somewhat stable. ill set it at ~6 after dumping in the nutes then next day i come itll be up to a 6.4. i just left it at 6.4 this time. couldve been the reason for the purpling of leaves idk. its here and there.

ill try dropping it to 5.5ph after dumping in the nutes next time then let it fluctuate to a 6.0 and leave it.

dont know why that is exactly... could be rockwool as my medium or the most likely its the tap water i use that causes ph to rise initially
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That's a fair assessment. I'm on RO water and I can't remember if I had any PH fluctuation when I was running jack's 5-12-26 with tap water. And to be fair I've no experience with Jack's Tap formula. However, I think you're on point as rockwool being your PH culprit. I specifically use #4 perlite or hydroton, because they are truly inert. They don't affect your PH or interact with your fertilizer in any way shape or form. Rockwool and coco do not share this inert attribute which is why I never recommend either. There are simply better options that do not cause PH fluctation. Why not use them and ditch the problem mediums? I use and recommend #4 chunky perlite because it's the cheapest light weight inert medium I can find readily available all the time. It doesn't interact with my fertilizer. It doesn't interact with my PH. It is truly and inert medium. I get 1.5cu ft for $40. 2 bags is enough to pot all the plants for an entire flower cycle, and that's a 12x16 dude! The point is there are other mediums that are much better and will cause you less headaches. Hydroton isn't bad, but it's fucked up heavy and offers no superior benefits to perlite. It is also more expensive than #4 chunky perlite. Ditch the rockwool my friend. It is causing you unnecessary PH fluctuation. Switch over to something else that doesn't do that. Anything else :)

Found this on RW:

One of the drawbacks to using rockwool cubes is the special care and consideration that needs to be taken when working with them. While they are a beneficial resource for hydroponics growing system, they do have some important drawbacks that need to be addressed.

  • DO take the time to properly prepare rockwool cubes before starting seeds or trying to root cuttings. Their natural pH is too high for optimum plant growth and will create problems and instability within the hydroponics system if left at that alkalinity.
www.trees.com

How to use Rockwool Cubes for Growing, Seed Starting, and Cutting Propagation - Trees.com

Rockwool is a mainstay growing media for commercial hydroponics growers. I'm going to find out its use, how to prepare, and use it for growing, and propagation.
www.trees.com www.trees.com
 
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newbplantgrower420

Well-Known Member
jonnynobody said:
That's a fair assessment. I'm on RO water and I can't remember if I had any PH fluctuation when I was running jack's 5-12-26 with tap water. And to be fair I've no experience with Jack's Tap formula. However, I think you're on point as rockwool being your PH culprit. I specifically use #4 perlite or hydroton, because they are truly inert. They don't affect your PH or interact with your fertilizer in any way shape or form. Rockwool and coco do not share this inert attribute which is why I never recommend either. There are simply better options that do not cause PH fluctation. Why not use them and ditch the problem mediums? I use and recommend #4 chunky perlite because it's the cheapest light weight inert medium I can find readily available all the time. It doesn't interact with my fertilizer. It doesn't interact with my PH. It is truly and inert medium. I get 1.5cu ft for $40. 2 bags is enough to pot all the plants for an entire flower cycle, and that's a 12x16 dude! The point is there are other mediums that are much better and will cause you less headaches. Hydroton isn't bad, but it's fucked up heavy and offers no superior benefits to perlite. It is also more expensive than #4 chunky perlite. Ditch the rockwool my friend. It is causing you unnecessary PH fluctuation. Switch over to something else that doesn't do that. Anything else :)

Found this on RW:

One of the drawbacks to using rockwool cubes is the special care and consideration that needs to be taken when working with them. While they are a beneficial resource for hydroponics growing system, they do have some important drawbacks that need to be addressed.

  • DO take the time to properly prepare rockwool cubes before starting seeds or trying to root cuttings. Their natural pH is too high for optimum plant growth and will create problems and instability within the hydroponics system if left at that alkalinity.
www.trees.com

How to use Rockwool Cubes for Growing, Seed Starting, and Cutting Propagation - Trees.com

Rockwool is a mainstay growing media for commercial hydroponics growers. I'm going to find out its use, how to prepare, and use it for growing, and propagation.
www.trees.com www.trees.com
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ya its all good ill just start at a lower pt of pH from now on.

whats ur method for creating concentrated stock solutions for 321? i think ill go back to it cause the blue residue the RO formula leaves is too messy for my liking.

only reason i left jacks is cause i have 4 70 gal reservoirs and got tired of mixing all those powders for each rez. a concentrated stock solution would solve that problem for me

i got left over 5gal dynagro containers. im thinking ill fill them up with my tap water then fill it with a powder and mix it...making a stock solution. whats the grams per gal for the base, cal-nit and epsom needed?
 
TintEastwood

TintEastwood

Well-Known Member
On the subject of PH.

I'm trying to understand N types. Ammonical N for example....if when how much for what substrate.

How the Ammonium-nitrate ratio affects your plants | CANNA Gardening USA

In this article, we are going to look specifically at the effect of the ammonium/nitrate ratio and its effect on the growth and development. Read more >
www.cannagardening.com www.cannagardening.com

Notice how the Jacks bagged 10-30-20 is 50/50 on the Nitrate/Ammonical percentages.
 
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jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
newbplantgrower420 said:
ya its all good ill just start at a lower pt of pH from now on.

whats ur method for creating concentrated stock solutions for 321? i think ill go back to it cause the blue residue the RO formula leaves is too messy for my liking.

only reason i left jacks is cause i have 4 70 gal reservoirs and got tired of mixing all those powders for each rez. a concentrated stock solution would solve that problem for me

i got left over 5gal dynagro containers. im thinking ill fill them up with my tap water then fill it with a powder and mix it...making a stock solution. whats the grams per gal for the base, cal-nit and epsom needed?
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2# Jack's to 1 gallon water. Max solubility is 3#/gallon. Might take a day for it to all go into solution at 3#/gallon. I believe calcium nitrate is 580g/gallon. Let me confirm the calcium nitrate stock solution rate. Stock solutions are lovely :)
 
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jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
Man I love jack's customer service as much as I love their products:

Thanks for reaching out and choosing Jack's! Great questions about our Ultraviolet and Finish formulas.


We have seen great results with both of the Bloom and Ultraviolet products in our trials. However, we typically recommend the 10-30-20 Bloom over the Ultraviolet – not that the ultraviolet is a bad product, but we prefer the 10-30-20 ratio. We have seen the Bloom formula do a great job of shutting down vegetative growth and beginning flower and bud production. We have seen the Ultraviolet do the same; however, sometimes the high phosphorus levels in the Ultraviolet can induce increased internode stretching which in many cases is not desirable. With that being said, some growers prefer the increased phosphorus levels in the Ultraviolet formula and use this formula with great success. So, I would personally recommend the Bloom, but Ultraviolet is also a great product!


The high potassium in our 7-15-30 Finish formula is the driving force to fatten up and bulk buds, making them more uniform and dense. This is pretty much our "bud hardener" with additional micronutrients for your plants too. Keep in mind it does not have calcium in it, which is okay, since you are only using it for 1-2 weeks. Let me know if I can help you with anything else.


Happy Growing!!


Kaitlyn Sterner
 
Fuckingatodeaso

Fuckingatodeaso

Member
Unlike GH they don't treat people like dicks for asking questions. I'm not saying that the people at jack's are wrong. (they obviously know more than me) but I don't understand how if your nitrogen and potassium levels are already adequate, then why pump them up as well? Maybe people are using 10-30-20 in place of 12-4-16 along with cal nit or over doing it with the ultraviolet as an addition or even using the ultraviolet as a replacement for base as well?
 
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newbplantgrower420

Well-Known Member
jonnynobody said:
Man I love jack's customer service as much as I love their products:

Thanks for reaching out and choosing Jack's! Great questions about our Ultraviolet and Finish formulas.


We have seen great results with both of the Bloom and Ultraviolet products in our trials. However, we typically recommend the 10-30-20 Bloom over the Ultraviolet – not that the ultraviolet is a bad product, but we prefer the 10-30-20 ratio. We have seen the Bloom formula do a great job of shutting down vegetative growth and beginning flower and bud production. We have seen the Ultraviolet do the same; however, sometimes the high phosphorus levels in the Ultraviolet can induce increased internode stretching which in many cases is not desirable. With that being said, some growers prefer the increased phosphorus levels in the Ultraviolet formula and use this formula with great success. So, I would personally recommend the Bloom, but Ultraviolet is also a great product!


The high potassium in our 7-15-30 Finish formula is the driving force to fatten up and bulk buds, making them more uniform and dense. This is pretty much our "bud hardener" with additional micronutrients for your plants too. Keep in mind it does not have calcium in it, which is okay, since you are only using it for 1-2 weeks. Let me know if I can help you with anything else.


Happy Growing!!


Kaitlyn Sterner
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i see. when they say it has no calcium in it are they referencing that about the 10-30-20 and that its ok to have the plants eating no calcium for the first 1-2 weeks of flip?

or was that about the finish 7-15-30
 
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jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
newbplantgrower420 said:
i see. when they say it has no calcium in it are they referencing that about the 10-30-20 and that its ok to have the plants eating no calcium for the first 1-2 weeks of flip?

or was that about the finish 7-15-30
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Both. What jack's found is that the tissue in cannabis (after doing a tissue sample analysis) is a super accumulator of calcium. Going 1-2 weeks without at the onset of flower doesn't affect them negatively one bit. They'll be riding high on reserves that you fed them in veg. Then after 2 weeks you're right back on it as their onboard supply of calcium is depleting. Then as the plant is finishing you begin using the 7-15-30 ripening formula with epsom salts. This drastically reduces the nitrogen input and omits the calcium while elevating the P & K which is what the plant wants primarily in the final phase of growing. She's trying to push out those last flowers, and if you provide the proper formula she'll have everything she needs and nothing she doesn't. Peters knows their shit :)
 
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jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
Fuckingatodeaso said:
Unlike GH they don't treat people like dicks for asking questions. I'm not saying that the people at jack's are wrong. (they obviously know more than me) but I don't understand how if your nitrogen and potassium levels are already adequate, then why pump them up as well?
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When using the 10-30-20 for 1-2 weeks at the 12/12 flip you stop using calcium nitrate and the 5-12-26. The plants still need nitrogen, but the higher levels of P and K tell the plant's hormones "it's time to flower" to initiate flower set. Once that's achieved you switch back to the standard 3-2-1 formula. Then just before harvest you omit the calcium nitrate once more and use the 7-15-30 with epsom salt to promote ripening while drastically reducing the amount of N. The extra P and K promote thickening of the flowers while reducing the amount of N and omitting calcium completely. Just jack'n it baby :)
 
Fuckingatodeaso

Fuckingatodeaso

Member
jonnynobody said:
When using the 10-30-20 for 1-2 weeks at the 12/12 flip you stop using calcium nitrate and the 5-12-26. The plants still need nitrogen, but the higher levels of P and K tell the plant's hormones "it's time to flower" to initiate flower set. Once that's achieved you switch back to the standard 3-2-1 formula. Then just before harvest you omit the calcium nitrate once more and use the 7-15-30 with epsom salt to promote ripening while drastically reducing the amount of N. The extra P and K promote thickening of the flowers while reducing the amount of N and omitting calcium completely. Just jack'n it baby :)
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That makes sense. I was thinking people were using it the way the old school boosters worked. (adding it on top of everything else)
 
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jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
Fuckingatodeaso said:
That makes sense. I was thinking people were using it the way the old school boosters worked. (adding it on top of everything else)
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I use to think the same way because the fertilizer companies brain washed me like everyone else. Then I found my friends at Jack's who set me straight :)
 
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