3 days on jack's 5-12-26 and the plants are loving it! Bye bye General Hydroponics forever

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
Thank you. Very good info, I was asking about the actual chemical or product you use for pH adjustment of the nutrient solution.

My bad I wasnt clear but the info is a plus.
Nothing fancy sir. Just standard issue PH up and PH down. I prefer the Cyco brand products because they're highly concentrated and you get more value for your money than most others. GH's ph up and down is heavily watered down. I have to use 10x the amount of PH up with GH's watered down bullshit versus Cyco's ph up. 3ML to a 32 gallon reservoir gets the job done with Cyco ph up. GH? Just squirt and squirt. Eventually you'll get it where you want it :)

Getting back to the jack's and the poor flavor I experienced with my blue dream last harvest. It was not the jack's finish formula that caused the problem. It was dried too dam fast. The BD buds were the most dense and large of all my plants. That means they had a great deal more off gassing of chlorophyll than the smaller flowers from my other strains and humidity took such a huge dive they dried in 3-4 days. Usually it takes 6 or 7. As a result I think a lot of chlorophyll was locked in that did not have an opportunity to off gas. I recently just trashed boveda packs in another thread just a few days ago. I wound up ordering a 320 pack for $25 to see if I can save my blue dream's flavor. The reason I think this will be successful is because I just took a crispy dry bud of bd out of my storage container yesterday and popped it into a glass container with a paper towel soaked in lime juice and a few slices of banana separated by a piece of plastic. I came back 2 hours later. The bud absorbed so much moisture I had to use a grinder to break it up. And it was smooth. The harshness smoothed out. It was actually enjoyable to smoke. Still not smooth on the level of my other strains, but light years better than it tasted prior to re hydrating.

To add more evidence that the 7-15-30 did not cause this flavor problem I just smoked some small flowers that weren't quite dry yet. Certainly not crispy and the stems did not snap. It was basically the perfect consistency. And it was very smooth. My failure I believe was drying too fast and had nothing to do with the jack's. Smoking chlorophyll is not smooth. So I'll be placing all of the bd in a 5 gallon bucket with the 320 pack and a gasket sealed air tight lid on monday when it arrives. I'm hoping within 7 days it will have amply re hydrated the over dried flowers to a more appropriate and desirable consistency.

What caused this over drying shit is that we had a dramatic shift in weather patterns abruptly just as the bd went onto the net. It went from cool and humid (perfect for slow drying) to below 32 degrees and no humidity. Forced air heat kicking on dropping it even further. I saw 30-35% for days and the dehumidifiers just sat idle. This is a perfect example of how important drying is. Moving forward I will be purchasing a heavy duty humidifier to maintain the ideal drying humidity. It's a completely preventable problem and easily solved.

What lesson can be learned from this? Dry yo shit properly holmes :) If stems snap you've already dried too much. You will not achieve a cure of any kind. I'll be jarring just as the exterior of the flowers are slightly crispy and stems feel close to snapping. That's the perfect condition for curing and sweating the flowers. Snapping stems means your shit has dried to a crisp and then you're in my situation buying overpriced boveda packs. $25 for this dam thing. If it does not work to my satisfaction it will be returned to amazon as defective. I hate products that don't work as advertised, but everyone seems to really love the bovedas that find themselves in my situation. I know fresh leaves can be added to re hydrate but I do not have any available. My vegging plants just recently had pesticide applied so I cannot use those.

I'll report back in 10 days or so how the boveda pack worked on the bd.
 

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
So waiting on my 320 boveda until monday I thought I'd try something else to experiment with re hydrating my buds in a different way using a slice of bread and banana slices placed in a bowl. Here's how I did it. Took about 2 hours for moisture to accumulate as droplets on the lid inside the refrigerator. Pulled the bud out and it was perfectly hydrated. I'll do 2 hours on this one and hopefully I'll repeat the same success as yesterday :)

20210514_184625.jpg20210514_184634.jpg20210514_184641.jpg
 

Lenin1917

Well-Known Member
I run masterblend rn with pretty good results so far, but I'll be switching to jacks next time because they're more dialed in for flower than masterblend (took some trial and error to get right) dry nutes overall are just better than the water down stuff. And they do a better job keeping the res clean.
 

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
I run masterblend rn with pretty good results so far, but I'll be switching to jacks next time because they're more dialed in for flower than masterblend (took some trial and error to get right) dry nutes overall are just better than the water down stuff. And they do a better job keeping the res clean.
12 years ago when I was a young little whipper snapper the RIU old timers of that era kept telling me and everyone else to use jack's. Me and most of those other people desperately wanted to believe that growing dope was more complicated than it really is. If a nutrient lineup didn't have 10 different bottles I was convinced it had to be garbage. If only I could time travel and tell myself what I know now I would have saved myself years of frustration. What I'm trying to say is when an old timer tells you what's what about something you may want to actually listen and digest that information before completely disregarding it. Don't be a jonnynobody. Take the shortcut :)

You're gonna love the jack's! I've found the sweet spot to be 675-725ppm. No epsom in veg. It will only cause you problems. Jack's has 6.3% mag sulfate. In flower add the epsom. The extra sulfates will help produce some stinky bud. In veg it is just unnecessary and causes foliage problems. I mix 4g 5-12-26/gallon and 2.4g calcium nitrate/gallon. PH adjust to 5.8. Dilute to 675-725ppm as needed. I don't mess with the ratios as others do. That's the reason most people that switch to jack's have problems. Jack's is a little hot at the recommended strength, but the ratios are perfect. I just add as much RO to my reservoir as I need to balance out the mixture. I have a 32 gallon res and a shortcut is that I'll weigh out 26 gallons of fertilizer and the ppm almost comes out perfect. Good luck dude! You're gonna love the change!
 

Nrk.cdn

Well-Known Member
After running the jack nutrient line NPK ratios as per Jacks, I still can't wrap my head around the numbers. It's just hard to imagine numbers that high not destroying shit.

Jacks 3.6-2.4-1.2 @ 145-50-205 (1200ppm on a 500 scale) OR
Jacks tap 15-5-20 5grms w/1grm epson salts @198-29-219 (1050ppm 500 scale)

Jacks bloom 10-30-20 5grm + 1grm epson salt @ 132-173-219 (950ppm 500 scale)

Jacks finisher 7-15-30 5.4grm + 1grm epson salts @ 100-93-355
1050ppm 500 scale)

The grams are from jacks feed schedule.
Am I missing something?
 

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
After running the jack nutrient line NPK ratios as per Jacks, I still can't wrap my head around the numbers. It's just hard to imagine numbers that high not destroying shit.

Jacks 3.6-2.4-1.2 @ 145-50-205 (1200ppm on a 500 scale) OR
Jacks tap 15-5-20 5grms w/1grm epson salts @198-29-219 (1050ppm 500 scale)

Jacks bloom 10-30-20 5grm + 1grm epson salt @ 132-173-219 (950ppm 500 scale)

Jacks finisher 7-15-30 5.4grm + 1grm epson salts @ 100-93-355
1050ppm 500 scale)

The grams are from jacks feed schedule.
Am I missing something?
I'm gonna make this real simple for you sir. Pay attention. All fertilizer manufacturers recommend too high a ppm for our crops. They're in the business of selling fertilizer. The more you use the more they sell. Simple as that. Now that you understand this simple fact let's move forward.

Regardless of which jack's product you use unless you have 10' trees that are 15' in diameter you do not ever need to run higher than 725 ppm. Mix jack's up at the recommended ratios then dilute the mixture to 675-725ppm with RO or plain water. No rocket science here dude. I'll tell you the same thing I tell everyone else: think for yourself. Don't let the fertilizer manufacturer's tell you how strong your fertilizer should be. Listen to your plants. If you have burned tips and edges you are feeding too strong. Again, no rocket science here. To make it even simpler let's say you have a 15 gallon reservoir for example. Jack's is too strong at the recommended dose, right? When you're doing your math to weigh out your powder just pretend your reservoir is 12 gallons. So 5-12-26 @ 4g/gallon x 12=48g. Calcium nitrate? 2.4g x12=28.8g. Again, if you are in veg using the 321 system omit the epsom salt. You do not need additional epsom above and beyond what the 5-12-26 already provides at 6.3% in veg. There as absolutely no reason to add epsom in veg with the 321 system. In flower? Yes! You want the extra sulfates to make some stinky flowers. Same target ppm for flower @ 675-725. Running a higher PPM will not get you better bud. It will only burn your plants and reduce your yield.

To directly answer your question: what you're missing is the fertilizer companies are great at making fertilizer. They're terrible at recommending the proper ec for optimal growth. Do remember these people aren't in our business. They don't grow pot. They make fertilizer. I have this same conversation with people about LED grow lights. Nearly every manufacturer recommends a distance too close to the canopy resulting in an epidemic of LED light burned plants and growers that don't understand what's happening. Same analogy. They're great at making lights (most anyways), but they do not grow pot. They make lights. The moral of the story here is think for yourself sir. You are the bottom line :)
 

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
Hash from jack's 321 grown plants. It's so strong as soon as you exhale your eyes instantly get heavy and everything moves slower. Just jack'n it homie - 1 day at a time :)

I dry ice sieved this through a 220 micron bubble bag. Nice haul. A little pissed off I didn't hit 1/2# :)

20210608_182447.jpg
 

Nrk.cdn

Well-Known Member
Plain and simple. Thank you fellow scholar. I do tend to follow the ppm/EC as a guideline.

So irrelevant of "what" you are using (I have only used 5-12-26 / cal-nit / epson ), keep to 675-725.

The EC fert Co. recommendations are insane but on these forums there is a constant Bro science at work that tends to confuse the messages from experienced growers.

Thanks again.
Knowledge is power.
 

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
The EC fert Co. recommendations are insane but on these forums there is a constant Bro science at work that tends to confuse the messages from experienced growers.
Bro science gets us all at one point or another :) Fortunately those years are behind me. Most of the problems I see in the new grower section are over feeding whether it's a soil grower or hydro grower. For every 10 growers that over feed I might see 1 that under feeds. Just remember less is more.

Hell, when I water jack's on my soil godfather OG or even on my outdoor flower garden I only water in fertilizer at 600-700ppm once every 2 weeks. My godfather OG looks fantastic. And so does the flower garden!

My first grow I ever did I used 10 different bottles of techna flora brand nutrients. The shit literally came in a little suit case type package. It was ridiculous. Needless to say I fried all of the plants and I didn't harvest a single gram worth smoking. It was bad. I almost gave up growing after that because I couldn't understand what I did wrong. Then the old timers kept telling me less is more. Eventually it sunk in. Why must we all resist good advice when given? It's definitely one of the lesser human qualities and I think we're all affected by it at one point or another in our lives. Some much more often than others :)
 

Nrk.cdn

Well-Known Member
Johnnynobody,

Great name, reminds me of the spaghetti western "my name is nobody".

Quick question, do you use jacks 10-30-20 for the 1-2 weeks? If so, same deal at the 675-725ppm?
 

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
Johnnynobody,

Great name, reminds me of the spaghetti western "my name is nobody".

Quick question, do you use jacks 10-30-20 for the 1-2 weeks? If so, same deal at the 675-725ppm?
I actually have not used the 10-30-20 bloom formula. I would love to try it though. I did run the 7-15-30 finish formula for 2 weeks on the last cycle at 725ppm and it seems to produce favorable results. New flower blooms started popping out with new white hairs everywhere. Cost is the only thing that's stopped me from getting the bloom boost. Trying to keep costs down at the moment. I'm definitely buying it before my next flower cycle though after seeing how well the finish formula performed. I always like to buy the 25# bags. Super economical. Toss it all in a homer bucket with the orange rubber gasket style lid and it's good for infinite long term storage.

Regardless of which fertilizer I'm using 675-725 ppm on the 500 scale or about 1.4-1.6 ec is the max I would feed. Very few scenarios would requirea higher ppm. Flood and drain systems for instance may require a higher ppm by the nature of how they work. Roots are flooded a few times per hour with fertilizer versus constant exposure. For this reason flood and drain would require a higher ppm to deliver the necessary amount of elements to the plant in those short windows of time during the flood cycle.
 

Nrk.cdn

Well-Known Member
i run jacks RO at either 1 or 1.5 g/gal. no cal or mg needed. 1.5 is roughly 0.5 EC. i use well water.
I was also looking at the 12-4-16 RO. You are not adding anything else?
With 1.5grm, buds swell nice?
I have city water at 100-150ish ppm.

I have read a few of your posts so this is good information from another experienced grower. Thanks.
 

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
I was also looking at the 12-4-16 RO. You are not adding anything else?
With 1.5grm, buds swell nice?
I have city water at 100-150ish ppm.

I have read a few of your posts so this is good information from another experienced grower. Thanks.
i run a silica product si dioxide (so no potassium), a fulvic product and southern ag.

i run DTW DWC (hydrofarms) and i feed 1x a day to slight runoff at 0.7 (0.2 well water)
 

The Dankstar

Well-Known Member
I heard mixed reviews on those. So far the boveda is working great. Pricey sucker though. I'll try the integras next time. Much more affordable. If they don't work out amazon will take 'em back. Love me some amazon.
Great rundown on everything man. I'm just waiting out some summer heat here and i'm gona run some jacks too. Going to copy paste all your numbers and try it out. RDWC building with 14g totes rn.
 

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
I heard mixed reviews on those. So far the boveda is working great. Pricey sucker though. I'll try the integras next time. Much more affordable. If they don't work out amazon will take 'em back. Love me some amazon.
i started with the bovedas and then tried the integras. i like the integras better. i buy the ones that are like 3" x 5" big.
 

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
I'm impressed with the performance of the boveda 320g 62%. I actually don't have anymore bud to hydrate and it's a bit much for long term storage to be honest. 62% is excellent for over dried bud, but I would never use it for storage. Too much moisture for properly dried buds. Maybe the 58% ones are popular for a reason?
 
>
Top