3 days on jack's 5-12-26 and the plants are loving it! Bye bye General Hydroponics forever

jcdws602

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the heads up. I'm definitely trashing the rest of it. Shit foamed in my res. I literally had to skim it off. I think I originally bought the stuff for making organic microbe tea but I did very badly at growing organically and abandoned that ship quickly for hempy buckets. I occasionally find all sorts of weird shit in my cabinets from that organic expedition. A gallon of molasses the other day. What the hell do ya do with a gallon of molasses?
Haha here ya go.....

Molasses adds moisture and color to baked goods like pecan pie, and it thickens up barbecue sauce for meat like pulled pork. Some other ways to use molasses in cooking include: Syrup: Light molasses can be a substitute for maple syrup, drizzled over pancakes or to sweeten a bowl of oatmeal.
 

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
What the hell do ya do with a gallon of molasses?
 

toastedleaf

Well-Known Member
anyone supplement Jacks 3-2-1 with anything else? Im running into some leaf issues and wondering if it was because of my Sf2000, I have herd, recently, i may need to add mag sulfate 4-6g/ gallon. Wanted to confirm so i can keep things moving, I'm on day 11 from flip. Thanks for the adviceIMG_1724.jpg
 

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
anyone supplement Jacks 3-2-1 with anything else? Im running into some leaf issues and wondering if it was because of my Sf2000, I have herd, recently, i may need to add mag sulfate 4-6g/ gallon. Wanted to confirm so i can keep things moving, I'm on day 11 from flip. Thanks for the adviceView attachment 4924530
Man that picture makes me wanna say you have possible light burn, because I see the necrotic spots on your leaves and the plant as a whole looks very healthy. A little chlorosis in the leaves, but I think that's just early stages of light burn. You just switched to flower so this damage I see may be from your veg cycle. It's common with LED's because the lights run for 18/6 instead of 12/12. If the light intensity is too much it's too much for 6 hours longer each day. Those lower necrotic leaves could either be lack of light and be nothing of significance or another issue. Probably just lack of light which is very common and natural. Personally I don't add any epsom in veg with the 321 system. Jack's 5-12-26 has 6.3% mag sulfate. That's a lot. However, I do add it in flower for the extra sulfates. Also, this is when your plants are the largest and have the largest nutrient demands of their life cycles. I just don't feel it's necessary in veg.
 

toastedleaf

Well-Known Member
Man that picture makes me wanna say you have possible light burn, because I see the necrotic spots on your leaves and the plant as a whole looks very healthy. A little chlorosis in the leaves, but I think that's just early stages of light burn. You just switched to flower so this damage I see may be from your veg cycle. It's common with LED's because the lights run for 18/6 instead of 12/12. If the light intensity is too much it's too much for 6 hours longer each day. Those lower necrotic leaves could either be lack of light and be nothing of significance or another issue. Probably just lack of light which is very common and natural. Personally I don't add any epsom in veg with the 321 system. Jack's 5-12-26 has 6.3% mag sulfate. That's a lot. However, I do add it in flower for the extra sulfates. Also, this is when your plants are the largest and have the largest nutrient demands of their life cycles. I just don't feel it's necessary in veg.
so should I just raise the light up? it’s 12” to the tallest one now. Didn’t want to raise to too high, in hopes to control stretch, and get some into the shorter plants. I could also dim it.
also just to clairify, I should look into some mag sulfate, but probably won’t need to use it for another couple weeks? Appreciate the help!
 
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jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
so should I just raise the light up? it’s 12” to the tallest one now. Didn’t want to raise to too high, in hopes to control stretch, and get some into the shorter plants. I could also dim it.
also just to clairify, I should look into some mag sulfate, but probably won’t need to use it for another couple weeks? Appreciate the help!
12" is very close for a high output qb. I would raise the light to 24". After flower set at week 4 I would look at lowering it back down to 12". There's no point in showering the plant with too much light in week 1-3 of flower. You've got delicate fresh flower sites forming and they have no need for extreme intensity. Once you've developed some healthy flowers by week 4 it's time to crank up the volume until you harvest. Those flower sites at week 4-harvest will need all the flower power they can get.

Add epsom salt once you're in flower. It is not needed in veg.
 

2com

Well-Known Member
so should I just raise the light up? it’s 12” to the tallest one now. Didn’t want to raise to too high, in hopes to control stretch, and get some into the shorter plants. I could also dim it.
also just to clairify, I should look into some mag sulfate, but probably won’t need to use it for another couple weeks? Appreciate the help!
That is not "light burn".
 

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
Assuming he's using jack's at the proper ec and PH he shouldn't be having any nutritive issues. Definitely not a K deficiency. Add magnesium to that list. Jack's 5-12-26 has 6.3%. There's no way you're going to see a deficiency when jack's is applied at the recommended rate. Without more info it's not possible to diagnose further. I have no idea what his PH or medium is like. I'd still lean towards LED light burn. There should be no nutritive issue if he's using the 5-12-26 and calcium nitrate at the recommended rates. Tip burn is possible when running a high ec with jack's, but there should be zero reason for a deficiency. Lot's of people like to monkey with the jack's ratio though for some reason unbeknownst to me. It rarely ends up a happy story. Who knows? Maybe he's using his own formula. I've never seen anything but LED light burn and magnesium deficiency cause that kind of chlorosis and necrosis. Again with 6.3% mag sulfate in the jack's there's no way he's experiencing a magnesium deficiency. This is all assuming he is following the proper mixing instructions.
 

toastedleaf

Well-Known Member
Assuming he's using jack's at the proper ec and PH he shouldn't be having any nutritive issues. Definitely not a K deficiency. Add magnesium to that list. Jack's 5-12-26 has 6.3%. There's no way you're going to see a deficiency when jack's is applied at the recommended rate. Without more info it's not possible to diagnose further. I have no idea what his PH or medium is like. I'd still lean towards LED light burn. There should be no nutritive issue if he's using the 5-12-26 and calcium nitrate at the recommended rates. Tip burn is possible when running a high ec with jack's, but there should be zero reason for a deficiency. Lot's of people like to monkey with the jack's ratio though for some reason unbeknownst to me. It rarely ends up a happy story. Who knows? Maybe he's using his own formula. I've never seen anything but LED light burn and magnesium deficiency cause that kind of chlorosis and necrosis. Again with 6.3% mag sulfate in the jack's there's no way he's experiencing a magnesium deficiency. This is all assuming he is following the proper mixing instructions.
I will try to answer all uncertainties :
1. i'm doing DWC 70L totes with 50L water in each, i mix my res up in a separate 120 L tote before dividing between the 2.
2. My recipe for the 100L is Jack A- 95g B-63g salt 25g ( i will now moving forward omit the salt until flower has set in).This
3. Ph 5.8 currently although it was crept up slowly to 6.2 over the grow.
4. I do have a small grow journal should anyone want to check it out, it does at least document my progress so far.
res temp has been in the low 70's-high 60's.
5. tent temp had been a little cool last week 65-75, its now 75-83. ( i had been venting outside, switched to inside as i was pretty sure LED wanted higher temperatures.
6. humidity levels 50-55%, just lowered it to 45% as she's about to show signs of flowering any day and i thought that would be better.

again thanks for the input
 

Snowback

Well-Known Member
I just bought my first Jacks. Two different types: The 5-12-26 and the 15-6-17 (Clone), which will not actually be used for clones most of the time.
Thanks to all of you for the valuable info that you supplied in this thread. It helped me to make my decision.
 

MustGro

Well-Known Member
I just finished my first flower run on Jack's 3-2-1 and my plants loved it. I tried their Finish at the end and my plants hated it! Surprised me since the 3-2-1 was so well received. Thought it might be a nice way to run them out at the end; a little less N and some more K than the 3-2-1. It's blue powder so it's dyed. Turned my reservoir windex blue. About 3 days later a few of my leaves started to get that dark purple indica color from it. The PH dropped so much that I used as much PH up in 4 days as I did in the last 4 months. The PPM didn't change in my tank. I was adding so much PH up that the PPMs stayed around 750 for 4 days. There's no calcium in it so they recommend you buy their calcium supplement to go with it also. I dumped it after 5 days and went back to a lower dose of the 3-2-1 to run out. The plants got happy again. I hope the 15-6-17 clone works better for you @Snowback !
I do love the 2 part, just amazes me how much of a difference there was in the 2 products.
 

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
I will try to answer all uncertainties :
1. i'm doing DWC 70L totes with 50L water in each, i mix my res up in a separate 120 L tote before dividing between the 2.
2. My recipe for the 100L is Jack A- 95g B-63g salt 25g ( i will now moving forward omit the salt until flower has set in).This
3. Ph 5.8 currently although it was crept up slowly to 6.2 over the grow.
4. I do have a small grow journal should anyone want to check it out, it does at least document my progress so far.
res temp has been in the low 70's-high 60's.
5. tent temp had been a little cool last week 65-75, its now 75-83. ( i had been venting outside, switched to inside as i was pretty sure LED wanted higher temperatures.
6. humidity levels 50-55%, just lowered it to 45% as she's about to show signs of flowering any day and i thought that would be better.

again thanks for the input
After omitting the epsom your recipe is nearly the same as mine. I hold 32 gallon reservoirs but when weighing the A and B I always pretend as if it's only 24 gallons to hit my target ec of 1.3-1.4. A tip for maintaining proper temp in your grow space when growing with LED lights is to buy an elecrric oil filled radiator. Usually $40-$50. I fucked up a bunch of plants before I put the heaters in. I was running temps between 70-74 and the plant's metabolism slows to a crawl. The leaves sweat off moisture at a much lower rate and drink less at the root zone as a result. Boom! I started seeing all sorts of strange shit happening to the foliage that made no sense at the time. They basically weren't drinking fast enough to consume the nutrients they were given. Instead of watering every other day as per usual with my t5's I was only watering once every 3 days. I learned very quickly the only flaw with LED lights is they are so dam efficient they often do not provide enough heat output to keep the grow space at the ideal temperature (78-82F) which causes the plants to basically starve. To complicate matters further the plants are being showered with more light than they can use. Chlorosis and necrotic spots develop. I often hear the myth that won't die that LED grown plants require more mag and calcium. Horse shit. The plants need heat in the right range to grow properly. Supplemental heat. Problem solved.

Keep kicking ass buddy. You'll get things dialed in before long. All of your other variables seem to be in check. Light speed ahead sir.
 

toastedleaf

Well-Known Member
After omitting the epsom your recipe is nearly the same as mine. I hold 32 gallon reservoirs but when weighing the A and B I always pretend as if it's only 24 gallons to hit my target ec of 1.3-1.4. A tip for maintaining proper temp in your grow space when growing with LED lights is to buy an elecrric oil filled radiator. Usually $40-$50. I fucked up a bunch of plants before I put the heaters in. I was running temps between 70-74 and the plant's metabolism slows to a crawl. The leaves sweat off moisture at a much lower rate and drink less at the root zone as a result. Boom! I started seeing all sorts of strange shit happening to the foliage that made no sense at the time. They basically weren't drinking fast enough to consume the nutrients they were given. Instead of watering every other day as per usual with my t5's I was only watering once every 3 days. I learned very quickly the only flaw with LED lights is they are so dam efficient they often do not provide enough heat output to keep the grow space at the ideal temperature (78-82F) which causes the plants to basically starve. To complicate matters further the plants are being showered with more light than they can use. Chlorosis and necrotic spots develop. I often hear the myth that won't die that LED grown plants require more mag and calcium. Horse shit. The plants need heat in the right range to grow properly. Supplemental heat. Problem solved.

Keep kicking ass buddy. You'll get things dialed in before long. All of your other variables seem to be in check. Light speed ahead sir.
Thanks, i was considering weighing nutes out for 80L instead of 100L for next grow, as i seem to be diluting it every res change anyway. I'm moving into flower now, just past day 21, i figured may as well keep the current measurements as I'm sure they will get hungry soon.
The heat I have under control now as summer has set in and tent temps are now 75-83. Just did a decent amount of defoil. All my problems cleared up once i followed your advice of raising light/turning it down.
I appreciate the advice and encouragement.
 

Snowback

Well-Known Member
After omitting the epsom your recipe is nearly the same as mine. I hold 32 gallon reservoirs but when weighing the A and B I always pretend as if it's only 24 gallons to hit my target ec of 1.3-1.4. A tip for maintaining proper temp in your grow space when growing with LED lights is to buy an elecrric oil filled radiator. Usually $40-$50. I fucked up a bunch of plants before I put the heaters in. I was running temps between 70-74 and the plant's metabolism slows to a crawl. The leaves sweat off moisture at a much lower rate and drink less at the root zone as a result. Boom! I started seeing all sorts of strange shit happening to the foliage that made no sense at the time. They basically weren't drinking fast enough to consume the nutrients they were given. Instead of watering every other day as per usual with my t5's I was only watering once every 3 days. I learned very quickly the only flaw with LED lights is they are so dam efficient they often do not provide enough heat output to keep the grow space at the ideal temperature (78-82F) which causes the plants to basically starve. To complicate matters further the plants are being showered with more light than they can use. Chlorosis and necrotic spots develop. I often hear the myth that won't die that LED grown plants require more mag and calcium. Horse shit. The plants need heat in the right range to grow properly. Supplemental heat. Problem solved.

Keep kicking ass buddy. You'll get things dialed in before long. All of your other variables seem to be in check. Light speed ahead sir.
Those were my findings as well. Unfortunately in the winter all of the heat that I have to add into the system almost completely offsets my electrical savings vs. HIDs. Right now in the hotness of summer the efficiency is great though.
 

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
Those were my findings as well. Unfortunately in the winter all of the heat that I have to add into the system almost completely offsets my electrical savings vs. HIDs. Right now in the hotness of summer the efficiency is great though.
You are on point sir. I'm saving 2 of my 1000w lamps for winter growing to provide heat and some nice flower power. Otherwise I'll have to run a heater in the room. That puppy is 1500w and doesn't add any light to the room. Might as well get some lumens and heat at the same time by running a couple HID's. I'm planning to mount the 2 1000's right in the center of the room where they were before flanked by 2 660w qb's in the front and rear of those. Overkill? Nah :)

Summer is a bitch. There's no other way to describe it. Between the bugs, heat, and outside yard maintenance everything is harder and takes more time. Electric consumption is higher too. It's challenging to overcome all of these variables, but each problem has a solution. Heat? LED lighting paired with heavy duty ventilation both in and out of the room. The faster you exchange the air the more closely the grow room will match the ambient temperature of the intake air which is usually stable in most homes (emphasis on most). Back up ventilation with a portable AC if needed is environmental insurance for the scorching hot days. You may need it and it's one of those things that's nice to have and not need but it's brutal to need it and not have it. Watching high value plants cook is devastating. Been there. Done that. Bought the t-shirt. Then I bought a portable AC and said never again. A solid integrated pest management program keeps bugs out of your garden. Something I slacked on and am now presently battling spider mites due to lack of IPM. However, I got the medicine for those bastards. Hosed 'em down with Forbid 4F. Next day dead mites were allover the ground. Both nauseating and satisfying at the same time. It was a real mind bender and a testament to what happens when you slack off on your IPM. Those fuckers are looking for any way in they can find to make an all you can eat buffet out of your plants. If you're running an IPM regimen (I wasn't) you'll be right as rain. If not you'll be waging war which is time consuming and may potentially affect your final yield depending on the level of infestation. IPM is much easier.
 

toastedleaf

Well-Known Member
After omitting the epsom your recipe is nearly the same as mine. I hold 32 gallon reservoirs but when weighing the A and B I always pretend as if it's only 24 gallons to hit my target ec of 1.3-1.4. A tip for maintaining proper temp in your grow space when growing with LED lights is to buy an elecrric oil filled radiator. Usually $40-$50. I fucked up a bunch of plants before I put the heaters in. I was running temps between 70-74 and the plant's metabolism slows to a crawl. The leaves sweat off moisture at a much lower rate and drink less at the root zone as a result. Boom! I started seeing all sorts of strange shit happening to the foliage that made no sense at the time. They basically weren't drinking fast enough to consume the nutrients they were given. Instead of watering every other day as per usual with my t5's I was only watering once every 3 days. I learned very quickly the only flaw with LED lights is they are so dam efficient they often do not provide enough heat output to keep the grow space at the ideal temperature (78-82F) which causes the plants to basically starve. To complicate matters further the plants are being showered with more light than they can use. Chlorosis and necrotic spots develop. I often hear the myth that won't die that LED grown plants require more mag and calcium. Horse shit. The plants need heat in the right range to grow properly. Supplemental heat. Problem solved.

Keep kicking ass buddy. You'll get things dialed in before long. All of your other variables seem to be in check. Light speed ahead sir.
was wondering if I could pick your brain again, after following your instructions, almost a month ago, by raising/dimming the light the problem went away. I now seem to be having the same problem, day 36 from flip, they are now 14" from the light (sf2000) with is at %55 power. I've got a few similar pics over the last week that show its getting slightly worse. I'm happy to provide more details/ photos. Just didn't want to mess with your thread too much. Thanks
 
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