37 days into flowering and now this!!Need help figuring it out.

cowboylogic said:

0 nitrogen because it one part of a three part nutrient program. The ole 3-2-1 during veg. Then 1-2-3 during flower. Grow, Micro, Bloom each repectively

Click to expand...

Right - I get the system - but the point is that it is a massive scam to skim money off of marijuana growers.

There isn't a single plant in the world besides marijuana that would be valuable enough to grow this way - so the point is that GH or any of these other companies that sell like "flower hardener" for $60/1.5oz or "FabBloom" for $79 or whatever else - are banking on the fact that they know you are growing a plant with a street value of ~$5000/lb.

So the goofy fertilizer just seems normal to gullible consumers that don't understand a thing about horticulture, plants, or anything else. In some respects this speaks to the ridiculous state of science education in the public sphere. Anyway -

The "3-part-system" comes that way to seperate you from a very large amount of money at little or no benefit to you over products that are, seriously, 2000% cheaper.

Uncle Ben said:

Superthrive contains Indolebutric acid (sp), a synthetic hormone, and Vitamin B1. It works (some say it doesn't) by synthetically inducing cell division and elongation and is often used as a root stimulator. I know of no scientific basis of it affecting the flowering response which is driven by a hormone called phytochrome.

Regards,
UB

Click to expand...

I have done side by side tests. Superthrive used regularly during the flower cycle greatly slows the flowering process. Trust me on this one. I am speaking from experience. I use it myself, but only early on in the veg cycle.

sedate said:

Right - I get the system - but the point is that it is a massive scam to skim money off of marijuana growers.

There isn't a single plant in the world besides marijuana that would be valuable enough to grow this way - so the point is that GH or any of these other companies that sell like "flower hardener" for $60/1.5oz or "FabBloom" for $79 or whatever else - are banking on the fact that they know you are growing a plant with a street value of ~$5000/lb.

So the goofy fertilizer just seems normal to gullible consumers that don't understand a thing about horticulture, plants, or anything else. In some respects this speaks to the ridiculous state of science education in the public sphere. Anyway -

The "3-part-system" comes that way to seperate you from a very large amount of money at little or no benefit to you over products that are, seriously, 2000% cheaper.

Click to expand...

I could not agree more. I am sure we all that corner of a shelf or box with things we have purchased over the years looking for a miricle.

cowboylogic said:

0 nitrogen because it one part of a three part nutrient program. The ole 3-2-1 during veg. Then 1-2-3 during flower. Grow, Micro, Bloom each repectively.

Click to expand...

Don't know what series you're talking about, but taking the Flora series as an example the Grow is 7-10-4, Micro 5-0-1, Bloom 4-8-7. Not one is very high in N, nor do any one of the products provide complete nutrition. Added together in equal parts and you have a 5.3-4-6.

Their business model (GH) and all cannabis specific fertilizer programs are designed for marketing and profit margins only. The more confusing and the more choices they offer the more they can increase those profits. (Can't have just one, gotsta buy 'em all). Unless I'm missing something regarding uptake in a water culture environment, a high K food is not the greatest to support foliage production/retention.

UB

cowboylogic said:

I have done side by side tests. Superthrive used regularly during the flower cycle greatly slows the flowering process. Trust me on this one. I am speaking from experience. I use it myself, but only early on in the veg cycle.

Click to expand...

No offense, but I don't trust most of the anecdotal evidence on cannabis forums. I need the whys and some clinical trials.

All plant processes are directed by hormonal influences. Now, if Superthrive has some hormone that might influence plant processes and has been clinically proven, I'll believe it. I have been using it as a transplant drench for 40 years. Pros I hang with say it's snake oil. One quick cursory read of their bullshit label suggests that may be true. As for me, guess it's a feel-good thang.

UB

The gh npk values of all 3 combined is 7-6-10. I bouht them during my first attemp at growing back in June and still have a little left for one more res change which I will do in 2 day since I am flushing as we speak. It may be a joke compared to other nutes but like I said I did little reserch and paid little attention to the nute catagory. I spent $45.00 for all 3, I wounder what my plants would look like if I had a better nutes. As far as this grow goes its going fine. But will be looking for better nutes in the future.

steelherman said:

....but like I said I did little reserch and paid little attention to the nute catagory.

Click to expand...

That is the biggest mistake growers make. Did your research involve taking push ads and anecdotal evidence to heart, or trying to understand the function of macros and micros? No offense, guys like GH thrive on your type. They hate peeps like me.

Your plants would have done much better if that ratio had been reversed, at least for the general growth cycle. 10-6-7 would have carried them thru from start to finish.

UB

I'm reading dyna grow right now, thanks for the link. I guess every grower gets taken once when they start off. Trust me I plan things to be better the next time around,this time i will get the knowlege first then grow.

Ok UB , I have gone through the Dyna gro site and it seems to me from what I read is that there nutes have all 16 essential nutes required to grow healthy plants in a single bottle. They have the grow npk 7-9-5,bloom3-12-6,the all pro -7-7-7 etc. All seem great products, Now I ask you UB, Do you have or know a link that gives us a guidline to what the plants go through week to week, What and how much of the 16 essencial nutes get taken in at different times of a plants life cycle? You mentioned b4 that during certain points in the flowering cycle N gets used differently. The plants need to have it there when it does need it then back it off when they dont later in the flowering cycle. Thanks UB you have been helpful.

Hey, Uncle Ben, what brand of nutes do you use? What do you think about Fox Farms? Is it another company trying to make an extra buck or are they legit?

steelherman said:

Ok UB , I have gone through the Dyna gro site and it seems to me from what I read is that there nutes have all 16 essential nutes required to grow healthy plants in a single bottle. They have the grow npk 7-9-5,bloom3-12-6,the all pro -7-7-7 etc. All seem great products, Now I ask you UB, Do you have or know a link that gives us a guidline to what the plants go through week to week,

Click to expand...

Week by week? Ya gotta wean yourself off the charts and the hair splitting, learn to read your plants. You're making this too difficult. Learn how to keep the leaves green and healthy and retain them in that condition until harvest. That's all the matters (good root system is a given). IOW, forget bud production, it will happen. Focus ONLY on healthy and robust leaf and root development - the more, the merrier.

What and how much of the 16 essencial nutes get taken in at different times of a plants life cycle? You mentioned b4 that during certain points in the flowering cycle N gets used differently.

Click to expand...

The nutes you're using do not support good foliage growth and retention. Too much K can be antagonistic towards good N uptake as well as other elements. http://www.totalgro.com/concepts.htm

The plants need to have it there when it does need it then back it off when they dont later in the flowering cycle. Thanks UB you have been helpful.

Click to expand...

This nutrition thingie is like any other - make it complete but don't over-do any one cultural segment. Only you can learn the balance of the factors that will make you successful. IOW, you must develop your own program and stop following others'. Treat it as any other indoor plant and you'll be fine.

Good luck,
UB

MedicalMarijuanaUser said:

Hey, Uncle Ben, what brand of nutes do you use? What do you think about Fox Farms? Is it another company trying to make an extra buck or are they legit?

Click to expand...

I don't use Fox Farms products. I don't think they are a good value. Doesn't mean they won't do the trick but like anything else, you have to know what you're getting and only a professional's soil and pH lab test will do.

UB

Uncle Ben said:

No offense, but I don't trust most of the anecdotal evidence on cannabis forums. I need the whys and some clinical trials.

All plant processes are directed by hormonal influences. Now, if Superthrive has some hormone that might influence plant processes and has been clinically proven, I'll believe it. I have been using it as a transplant drench for 40 years. Pros I hang with say it's snake oil. One quick cursory read of their bullshit label suggests that may be true. As for me, guess it's a feel-good thang.

UB

Click to expand...

Like I said, I use it when transplanting and early veg.
And no offence taken. Your old and stuborn, dont expect you too listen! LOL I am old and stuborn also. And like yourself, just spreading some old timer wisdom. Its all good.

looks like a deficiency to me... P or K seeing as how youre not even using a bloom booster and all other elements are fine. Those leaves are definately deficient though..

Check the FAQ Plant Problems

cowboylogic said:

Like I said, I use it when transplanting and early veg.
And no offence taken. Your old and stuborn, dont expect you too listen! LOL I am old and stuborn also. And like yourself, just spreading some old timer wisdom. Its all good.

Click to expand...

Geez, and here I am thinking I was spreading old timer wisdom based on clinical studies and facts. Oh well......

If you divulged all of your activities, treatments, I bet I could put my finger on the real issue of why your flowering response was delayed.

Good luck,
UB

Good looking out UB, It took a while but I read almost everything on that site. I went on some of the more popular nute brands home page and the really did not have a specific listing of all the Micronutes on there,seems like they are hideing something. Only a few say the have all the elements a plant needs, even if the are in trace elements. Total grow...wow..20-20-20. Not sure what to think on that one.So far I understand that while vegging the plants use more N-and less P-K, while in flowering the really need P-K and less N. So where do you draw the line as far as to much N-P-K , 20-20-20 as compared to 3-12-6 and what works for you which was even higher.
Anyways you have helped my tons, for that I say Thanks and burn on. +rep for you.

steelherman said:

Good looking out UB, It took a while but I read almost everything on that site. I went on some of the more popular nute brands home page and the really did not have a specific listing of all the Micronutes on there,seems like they are hideing something.

Click to expand...

Yep. Your red flag is when they say it has this and that, will do this and that, and then you can't find any REAL specs on it. If you go to Dyna-Gro, Peters, Scotts....you'll get a complete analysis, which also includes the acidity index listed as pounds of CaCO2 per ton. The more, the more acid its affect will be. I'm looking at a Dyna-Gro spec sheet for their 7-7-7 and it does list the 16 essential elements it contains and recommends it for hydroponic growing of vegetables and flowering plants. Cost, about $12/quart last time I checked and a the rate of 1/4 - 1 tsp. gallon, 1 quart will last you a long time. A small side bennie is not having to pay an incredible amount for shipping for alot of stuff.

Only a few say the have all the elements a plant needs, even if the are in trace elements. Total grow...wow..20-20-20. Not sure what to think on that one.So far I understand that while vegging the plants use more N-and less P-K, while in flowering the really need P-K and less N. So where do you draw the line as far as to much N-P-K , 20-20-20 as compared to 3-12-6 and what works for you which was even higher.

Click to expand...

All you need is two products, say a 9-3-6 and a 3-12-6, the former supporting good foliage production, the latter flowering or you can mix the two to get a balanced 6-6-6. The main problem growers have, which includes myself, is the retention of healthy, green leaves until harvest, which insures a bountiful harvest. So, let's say you're using the 3-12-6 and you see some leaf yellowing and drop. Well, the logical thing to do is not just sit there watching them drop because the herd says "you should only use bloom foods during flowering", you jump into action, pop your hemp suspenders, do the "glug glug" and rotate back to the high N food until the premature leaf drop is stopped and the green color returns. Problem with cannabis is the "aw shits". Once damage has occurred like leaf curl or premature leaf drop, it's hard to reverse mainly because of impatience or ignorance on the part of the grower. Most times the grower panics, doesn't give his plants time to react to his actions, jumps on something else only to find he's now on a slippery slope and really fucked things up.

UB

So yesterday I was on a quest to find dyna-grow in a few of my local hydro shops in town. No dice. Just the very typical commercial brands that are advertised in mag and sites. Picked up a copy of Maximum Yield,,,no adds for Dyna-grow,,,just the typical commercial stuff. So now I understand a bit more about the overall picture UB was trying to paint for me. Stay away from what the masses do , think for yourself, get properly informed, and let your plants be your guide.
Well one good thing came out of yesterday..I picked up a microscope. Well as for dyna-grow I looked for anything else they had in the hydro store as far as nutes, but nothing they had was a one part fert and contained all 16 elements I was looking for,,,that only means I have to get it online.

Not sure who repped me just too say UB is one of the best and if I didnt listen I was thick.
UB is a good grower but not GOD. Some of you yougins my look up to him in that way. Not me, he is just another grower. As am I. I have been at this game for alongtime. Nobody knows it all or will ever know it all. It a constant journey. Oh ya, besides growing a bit of herb from time too time. I also till, plant, harvest and maintain over 1800 acres of farmland. I do know abit about growing things.