5H Club - Leading them 2 x 2 into the light

Discussion in 'Stealth / Micro / Cab Growing' started by HalfBee, Nov 25, 2016.


    HalfBee Well-Known Member

    Selected my beans for Santa to bless.

    Maui is all the dispensary wrote on the bag. These 9 seeds were from the same batch.
    Saved a piece of the bud tip. Brown and sparkles inside even after a couple years in storage.

    This wasn't herm (where there'd be many seeds starting) but were mature nice looking prizes scattered lightly among a great batch of meds. Dropping 2 selected and a memorial mystery seed.
    Schedule is shooting for them breaking ground New Year's Day – Rose Bowl Bouquet

    HalfBee Well-Known Member

    Holiday Happiness Has Heated Hardwood

    How much is that doggy in the window, and how much is it discounted?

    Long before I found RIU and the DIY lighting obsession, I lurked and researched over on FC – FuckCombustion.com a vaporizer forum “For Cannabis”. In all of that time I made exactly 2 posts.

    Took over a year to decide.
    My first was a Magic Flight Launch Box MFLB:
    A battery driven portable vape for flower (concentrate version too) and it worked great for a while. Has a learning curve but a brilliant and simple design.

    Next up 1.5 years later the Arizer Solo a more high tech device. Capable of selective heat settings and rechargeable battery that can handle multiple “sessions”. Glass stems with built in screen. A bent and straight version come with the unit. The straight stem bit the dust shortly after I started using it, breaking at the top of that built in screen. Replaced with a 14mm shorty for water piece and that combo entered the rotation. Sometime after the warranty period it no longer worked off battery power, but would charge but shut off during heating. A hack bypasses the battery with a lower voltage wall wart the unit knows to devote to heating only. This gave it another 6 to 9 months of limping along...

    There's no need to fear... UnderDog is HERE!!!

    The previous choices were testing the waters and making sure that vaporizing suited my needs.

    Now it's time to adopt a dog.
    Open box for a yuletide log
    Express from North Pole
    Lightly ground or whole
    Small amount makes big fog

    I've wanted one of these but they were always outside my price range. As part of the funding for my lights, included one of these as part of the wish list. They were on sale for the holidays at same price as the Solo (if I were to buy a new one). Honey Locust wood – how could I resist...
    Dog4HalfBee.jpg Dog1.jpg Dog2stems.jpg VapeLineup.jpg
    It's too late to get yours by Christmas, but if you want a New Year's resolution for 2017: Check out FuckCombustion and research as much as you would on any other phase of this plant like choosing the best lighting and nutrients, or grow methods.

    HalfBee Well-Known Member

    Week 4 Update

    MT & MB officially went into veg 11/28 and their 30 day veg cycle has been reached. They spent two 'day' cycles in the flower area under the brighter lights, moved back for extra hours of the 5000K to keep veg kicking along. Now they are officially into flower tracking mode.

    MM – No more ring, at this point not expecting any more stretch. Experiments with light to canopy height over for now. Moving it down to 12 inches looked like it was starting to bleach so back to standard setting.

    Put MT & MB into flower. They started on 4 tub risers, now 2 tub (an inch less), and will continue to be lowered during stretch. Trying to keep even canopy but also want to encourage a bit of height so keeping them just below the marker range.
    FlipDay001.jpg FlipDay002.jpg FlipDay002a.jpg MM_week4.jpg

    ML & MR – Trimmed them both a bit and hopefully topped them properly. They no longer have the symmetrical growth patterns to get nice branching forks. A bit aggressive and snapped a stem on MR, applied a bit of black tape and hope it recovers.


    Mission: Maui Echo Hula

    Dropped beans in water for a 24 hour soak on Christmas morning (present unwrapping time).
    The following morning they went into damp paper towel for the 'rest' period until tails show.
    Next day, both Maui are showing tails so put into cups of soil and countdown to heads up.
    These are the fastest poppers I've had so far this year, hope that's a good sign.

    On Friday they both had heads above the soil (barely) a couple days earlier than the New Year.

    Memorial seed – no progress (still none on Friday)
    When these reach an interesting stage they will be updated over in grow journal section only.

    Attached Files:


    OZAK47 Well-Known Member

    Looking good, keep on sharing.

    HalfBee Well-Known Member

    Week 5
    MM – day 35
    MT&MB – day 9

    MM – The pistils are starting to change color and recede, and a bit of frost developing.
    The leaves are turning golden, possibly too golden? It hasn't had any N for a week or two.

    Is this a Nitrogen issue? Or is it just natural finishing behavior? Keeping an eye on it.
    My close up shots didn't work out, they were too blurry on details I wanted to display.
    Full0105a.jpg MM_d35a.jpg MM_d35c.jpg
    MT & MB
    They are a few inches over the 1 foot boundary mark and pointing upward.
    The first is a shot at 7 day mark, second is two days later at 9 days.
    G_day7.jpg day 7 G_day9.jpg day 9

    They are starting to show a few hairs and develop buds.
    The nodal spacing on the growth ends is crazy, so tight for a couple inches where they turn upward from training.

    ML & MR - still in holding veg - have number of heads desired so time to bush out

    HalfBee Well-Known Member

    Prepping for next run

    Since the soil bucket was emptied in this project, started looking for what to use next.

    Roots Organic Original – West coast coco base composted with all the good stuff in it...
    Supposed to be good for 3 to 4 weeks on water only if you want or can feed like crazy.

    Also picked up 2x fabric 2 gallon size, which is almost the same as the brown basket I'm using now for MM.
    Need to find a tray for them, the 10 inch ones I bought might work when containers are filled.
    Have basins they fit in for bottom watering or run off, depending on method I use.

    This mix is different and seems very airy and they recommend bottom watering and nute top feed.

    It's got organic life going on already so want organic nutrients to feed. Have something new that isn't found on the company website yet. 10-3-6 powder in a 1 pound box. Of the 10% Nitrogen 9.50% is water soluble. Has calcium 3% and sulfur 1.5%.

    Not ready to drop $ on nutrient program yet. Put a bit of this and a dab of that and a splash of moderation.

    HalfBee Well-Known Member

    Veg Corner

    More Beans...

    ATK - Are These Kush?

    Backup as Maui failure insurance. These are only identified as “Kush Type” hopefully they aren't an auto or something. They are from back in 2012 when I first started shopping around for a dispensary and was trying various suppliers. Have 3 from one bag and a single from a different bag only labeled “House Kush”.

    Dropped them Monday for 24 hour soak. When I was looking for nutrients earlier, grabbed a box of 36 Jiffy pellets. I got them for future cloning (I used one on MT or MB but don't remember which) and think it will be a bit easier for transplant to the new soil mix. First time using them for seeds.

    Tuesday – Dirty Hands Day
    Maui went into a tub at 10 days, a bit earlier than scheduled. Using the new Root Organic mix to see how it works for starting out. Only put about an inch of soil in cup and could see roots reaching sides.
    Next Friday it goes into the flower tent at 12/12 to force sex if it's got at least 5 or 6 nodes.
    MH_0106.jpg MH_0109_tub1.jpg MH_0109_tub2.jpg
    Thursday – Dirty Hands Day Part Deux
    ML & MR
    – These final clones of the Mango are going to be transplanted into the new fabric pots with the Roots Organic as a trial run on the whole fabric/Roots combo. They will get 3 weeks of veg in this mix before being flipped. Timing depends on how MM finishes but will be 60+ days when veg done.

    Roots Organic is an amended soil of composted coco with peat. My reading seems to suggest that when transplanting you surround the root ball with new soil and in a day or two should see a burst of growth as the roots start munching. The nutrients present are good for 3 to 4 weeks, then you can transplant again, add more soil, or start feeding with nutrients.

    Need to find out what type of feeding schedule they will require and how to water them most effectively. They got 2 feedings of the Nature's Care and in a couple days showed growth indications before being transplanted. They have been in that soil a long time with just enough to keep them green.

    No torture pictures of the root zones at transplant. Shaved them down and uncompressed the root ball with a quick massage to better access the new soil medium. What doesn't kill them makes them stronger or some such... They are sitting at about the same height they were in the other containers, just buried a bit deeper into the soil so canopy didn't change much.
    ML_MR_0106.jpg VC_fabshot1.jpg

    Untied for now. Tops are set and only need to be spread so lower growth is stimulated.
    Ready to tie but want to add a bit more height too.

    Midnight Wednesday - Creek crested, FD across street pumping out a basement. Ours only had about 6 inches in it and sump pump took care of that.

    HalfBee Well-Known Member

    Week 6

    MM – 42 Days
    MT & MB – 16 Days

    Keep moving them around the box. Trying to keep them away from the walls, but does it really matter. They get kind of flat on one side up against the door at night.

    Empty fabric pot – holds a little more than the brown basket in use here, but doesn't taper to a smaller base. Have trays to allow bottom feeding, and saucers to raise them up for any draining and facilitate drying/air flow after tray time. Don't want them flat on plastic after watering.

    Hv_0106a.jpg Hv_0106b.jpg Hv_0107_fab1.jpg

    MM – The tops are starting to fill out. It looks like they are changing color. A slight purplish or darker green/brown hint that hasn't really become pronounced yet. Frost is visible but not extreme.

    MT & MB – They are bushing up, need to come in and do a fan leaf strip sometime next week. The canopy is catching up to the MM level. I can see that the one with the most tops is a little behind in size, another blow for quantity over quality, but it'll average out at the end possibly.
    Hv_0109a.jpg Hv_0111a.jpg

    Can see much of the development of the clones is following the same patterns as original seed plant.
    The tops are developing in a similar way, stretch is very close on canopy height, but the length of the tops stretched upward full of nodes is much longer.
    MM_2weektops.jpg MT_MB_2weektops.jpg MT_MB_nodes1.jpg

    Timeline – Ding! The 3 week veg for ML & MR is up at the same time as 9 week Day 63 for MM and it gets chopped, ready or not. That's the longest MM gets. If, after cure, it seems to need a bit longer, then will know how long to let the rest of the clones ripen.

    HalfBee Well-Known Member

    Week 7

    MM – 49 Days
    MT & MB – 23 Days
    ML & MR – veg Day 9

    Noticed a couple leaves turning red up top and might get a splash of color at the end, and it is getting near the end. Two weeks left and on a water diet at this point. The trunk has some red striping.
    Pulled a couple of fan leaves off the inner branches and they were cannibalized and almost translucent, but the other yellow leaves are still well attached.
    MM_D49a.jpg MM_D49b.jpg MM_D49stem.jpg MM_D49fan.jpg

    The zoom in shot shows a bud just under canopy level that isn't going through the color change. There are two buds on that lower branch, secondary size, close to but not actually at canopy level.

    MM_D49top.jpg MM_D49topzoom.jpg

    I would probably consider it 'done' but it's scheduled for 2 more weeks. Doing a few closeup comparison bud porn shots over the next 2 weeks and see if they are fattening up, etc.

    MT & MB just past 3 week point and stacking up the stalks. Did a bit of trimming and opened up the middle for better penetration.

    Canopy management is not only horizontal, but vertical as well. Matching the size of the container it was tied to in training. Would slide in/out of a PC server shell nicely. Placed together they don't have a lot of side branching, but arms reaching up that should bud nicely when they get a bit more space and are exposed to direct light after the other plant is out and the fabric pots go in.

    MT_D23mug.jpg MB_D23mug.jpg

    VegCorner – Both ML & MR are 1 week in the new containers, been watered twice and holding steady.
    Canopy training continues, working on a few more inner nodes as well as end colas

    Who spilled the beans...

    Dropped the two kush types, and after a week of no progress, dropped a pair of my 'special' as backup.
    The IE popped right away, 36 hours to show nubbin, another 36 and they were above ground.

    When I checked on them the evening of their first day, their shells had come off and about ½ inch high. One had inner shell membrane gluing first leaves and got a procedure to correct it.

    Surprise Surprise Surprise... G Pyle
    One of the ATK was poking up under the dome about ¾ inch high, but had yet to open it's first set of leaves. In the morning there was no sign, now it's up higher than either of the other strain.
    Removed the dome and put it under CFL with the rest.
    Once again more seedlings than planned, but better safe than without.

    HalfBee Well-Known Member

    MeH Update – Day 21

    Has got a few nodes stacked up and flipped to 12/12 after a few days in flower room to get used to the lights.
    It's been at canopy level and has stayed fairly short, but shot up an inch last night.
    Dropped it down 3 inches at the flip and will keep dropping it in 3 inch increments to hold that 3 inch margin to grow into the intensity at that level.

    Odd genetic mutation? Several of the fan leaves are growing strange, they are on the nodes where I'd top them for manifolding. Will have to see if the branching displays it later on.

    MeH_Day21.jpg MeH_Odd.jpg 5H_group.jpg

    Checked the tray and there are roots trying to make an escape looking for moisture.
    There's only a single layer of barrier cloth on the bottom to help transplanting (pull up and out)
    not going to give a bigger size until I see that it is female.

    Guess it likes the new soil, still water only (and not much of that)
    shouldn't need anything until after sex and first topping.
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2017

    HalfBee Well-Known Member

    Day 53 – 7 ½ weeks

    MM is chopped... bagged... and slow drying...

    Not going to go into the hanging vs racks vs cardboard debate and put into new brown paper bags and hung closed up at top of flower area. Daily open bag and turn buds.

    Root mass was solid from side to side. Know much more now on how these air pruned style containers develop roots uniformly across in an almost solid mass. Root bound? Not that I could tell, they all seemed healthy yet hairlike in size.

    At end there were few real fans leaves left, the upper sugar leaves with visible trichomes all went onto a screen and dried for a few days before being jarred. Going to burp jar a couple times a day and cure for however long I keep an interest in it.
    MM_stump1.jpg MM_trim1.jpg MM_trim1topA.jpg MM_trim1topB.jpg MM_day3dry.jpg
    More colorful than I expected, the stalk developed red/purple tint. You can see in the structure where one of the manifold arms is missing in an early accident. Turned gold right up to the buds themselves, which got a dark greenish/purplish tint.

    HalfBee Well-Known Member

    Week 4 – Day 30

    ML & MR – put in flower area and lollipopped it's a bit crowded , but in a good way. Once they were trimmed they fit a bit better and can start training the cola towers to fit as I'd like. Had to tape another stem from rough handling.

    MT & MB – Indications of mites on MT, just a few leaves starting.
    Pruned it all back and hope for the best. Can't do anything at this time for IPM methods, do have DE but can't do a dusting as I'd like. Hoping to quarantine but will have to see.

    If they follow a similar maturation pattern as MM then past the half way point.
    H5_fullhouse.jpg H5_MT_MB_day30.jpg
    Still adjusting positioning, each side has 2 matching containers (fabric vs basket) but am trying to find best lighting for finishing buds vs providing for growth in first few weeks of flower.

    Original planning called for two of each stage (early/finish) as perpetual schedule. Container size fits within space, but canopy collisions happen because training is outside container profile.

    With more runs coming up, will pick up some more fabric pots but will try 1 gallon size also. Will have to measure the 3 & 5s for a possible solid scrog method run. If so, will update here as alternative setup of interior.
    That brings this thread to a close for a while, will continue over in a grow journal area with by strain comments. Any changes to setup (say a scrog) will bring back an update configuration.

    This project came a long way from being an antique computer dust collector.
    The light is enough, and could be augmented still if more intensity is needed.
    Finished harvest quality depends on dry/cure but better than previous attempts.
    Need better canopy training, but have a good grasp on making the plants cooperate.

    HalfBee Well-Known Member

    The Big H - Harvest

    The fabric containers were right on target for growth.
    Plants reached the 2 foot mark and rings were actually useful.
    They enjoyed the new soil and nutes.

    The roots were well spread as in the past, but where they entered the
    rocks in the bottom (for drainage) they were much heavier. That area
    was dusty dry at harvest yet roots found way to the bottom fabric.
    ML_roots.jpg MR_roots.jpg
    Was early chop so mites didn't spread more than they had.
    Went with a water cure: Chop - Tag - Into bath
    They remain floating but fully immersed
    Water changed daily with minimum agitation
    Remain in a dark place with good air flow

    After 7 days:
    Let any excess water drain from buds
    Trim them up (so much easier)
    Put on racks or hang in a HIGH air flow room
    When dry put in jar and monitor moisture level as usual​

    In theory this leaches out the water soluble compounds - like chlorophyll
    at the loss of terpene profiles. After drying they come out rock hard and
    can turn brittle if dried too much.


    HalfBee Well-Known Member

    Mango Results

    MM - main stock from seed
    22g tops • 3g popcorn​
    MT - top of node3 first topping
    12g tops • 3g popcorn​
    MB - lower node3 first topping
    12g tops • 5g popcorn​
    ML - node2 left side
    10g tops • 11g popcorn​
    MR - node2 runt cut
    10g tops • 8g popcorn​

    This shows the bud sizing was fairly uniform and the size of the container
    has direct effect on yields. The MM are at 42 days jar cure, MT & MB are
    at 21 days of jar cure, ML & MR are dripping wet out of the bath.
    (None of the 'trim' from early harvest is shown, sure was good though)
    M_harvest.jpg MNode2_harvest.jpg
    The later clones had more popcorn on longer stalks and might have bulked
    up if left to run longer. They were up in the 8 inch from light zone with no
    problems (other than buggers).

    Took MM & MT to my dispensary for an evaluation, but my usual guys weren't in
    that afternoon and the tie-dyed 20-something deadhead's opinion wasn't quite what
    I was looking for. Did say it had nice frost coverage, buds were of a good density,
    it was well trimmed, and a decent effort. (A kitty sticker that says MeWow)
    They offered to send it for testing if I wanted (not yet, maybe next round organics)
    and if got up to a quarter (even if staggered clones added together like I run) bring
    in for full evaluation.

    HalfBee Well-Known Member

    Upgrades for Downtime

    There are issues the spec sheets DON'T cover.
    Have had it with the Meanwell LRS-350-36 power supply.
    The fan is too noisy, and even putting it inside the cabinet for muffling
    didn't stop the noticeable cycling.
    I got it for the 9A (of which I'm using 6) and the price point being cheaper
    than two smaller 150 watt units with an 8A maximum. Since I've got 4Up
    boards, each power supply gives 4A, it's only an extra power cord added.

    The Vero 13s from the veg area got put into bars instead of being screwed
    directly to the rafters. Upgraded the LDD to 700mA level (from 350mA) so
    if they are run twice as hard I should only need half as many? Am finding out...
    Also got a toy to play with and find out what temps they reach at new level.
    Since I changed power supplies I also picked up a pair of LDD-1000H to fill
    out the open slots on the 4Up boards on the light for future additions.
    Thinking of testing a pair of Vero 13 5000K as supplemental in flower area
    run at 700 or 1000, with possible Vero 18 4000K upgrade down the road.

    HalfBee Well-Known Member

    More Box Scores

    Two more plants in a run not documented here (different forum)
    3B - 34g
    3D - 38g

    About 2.5 ounces total in tops and smalls.
    Manifold (missing an arm on one plant)
    3B_tops.jpg 3D_tops.jpg 3B_smalls.jpg 3D_smalls.jpg Training1.jpg

    It let me see how the strain handles manipulation with both a bushy pheno and one
    that liked straight arms in the air. So much, yet never enough, next round flipping soon...


    HalfBee Well-Known Member

    On The Lighter Side Of Life...

    Working with the same light, added a new panel for an extra 5000 lumens of
    4000K light during the last few weeks of flower run.
    PanelBuild.jpg HangLoose.jpg
    Panel is light weight, can be installed, moved, or removed easily with wing nut.
    Running it at 700mA at the moment but can jump to 1A by swapping out the LDDs.

    Bridgelux EB 560mm (22 inch) - 4000K - 22.1v @700 • 22.7v @1000 - $7.50US
    These spread from side to side and at 18 inches throws a footprint about 2/3 of
    the cabinet across for each strip.

    HazednConfused likes this.

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