600w vs. 1000w hps

Buddy Ganga said:

We run two 4x8 flower tents with one of each, and another 4x4 with a single 600.
At times we run a 5x5 with a 1000 watt raptor hood. We shut it down the other night after the bulb blew up and shattered the glass.

Check this out, the hood has a 5 year warranty and the store I bought it from of course does not have any lenses in stock.
So they told me to bring back my hood and they will just exchange it for a new one.. No shit..
They have a 1 year "replacement" on all of their bulbs and will exchange, not repair any faulty ballasts you buy from them.
They not only price match but they will give you a 15% discount if you show them your card too..

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Same in my area.

Sure the fuck isn't that way in my area. lol.
You mentioned the hood Raptor(I think are the best), What brand bulb exploded?
Can a ballast cause a bulb to explode? Just wondering, I would doubt it.

I won some money at the casino and drove over to the hydro shop to spend it on gear (I love America). Among my purchase was 2 Quantum ballasts and 2 hydrofarm hoods and two bulbs. 600W. Had help the entire time, let them set me up. Dropped all my money, well over a $1000. Get home, feelin' pretty damn good about myself. lol. Fucking ballast and hood didn't connect!! I needed an adapter. Unacceptable. And of course I had to wait til Monday to get it. I was so pissed. And then the ol lady starts (she wasn't with me at casino - which is why I won). She starts up. "How much you spend there this time?","Why didn't you let them help you, you fucking think you know everything", blah blah blah.

Buddy Ganga said:

We've been trying a cycle that starts them off under 600's in the first 2 to 4 weeks and then up to the 1000's to finish.
But I can tell you right now, we have harvested more weight per plant under 600's then from under a 1000's in the same conditions.

Fact is, a plant can only absorb so much before the light becomes wasted or damaging.

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Hmmmm. I've got three 1000 watt lights going in flowering, each on a 6 foot light rail with 6 plants under each light. I average about 4oz per plant with this setup. I would really be interested to see if the 600 watt could do better. Hell, I'd be happy if it accomplished the same and just saved me some $$ every month on electric bills!

Edit: These plants are not monsters either. They get 4 weeks of veg after being in my e-z cloner as a cutting for about 2 weeks, and end up being about 4 feet tall when it's all said and done.

I run a number of 600s and 1000s in the same room cooled via a closed loop system. The reflectors can sit inches from the tops of the plants; there's just no point to it. All things being equal, there's really no comparison - the 1000S are better in every way. They yield significantly more, the bud is of higher quality, and the process itself is easier. It's like using a shotgun instead of a rifle; hard to miss. Once heat enters the picture, things can change significantly. FWIW, on average, I pull ~2.5oz per square foot with the 600s and ~3.25oz/ft2 with the 1K, all dry/cured.

Simon

SimonD said:

I run a number of 600s and 1000s in the same room cooled via a closed loop system. The reflectors can sit inches from the tops of the plants; there's just no point to it. All things being equal, there's really no comparison - the 1000S are better in every way. They yield significantly more, the bud is of higher quality, and the process itself is easier. It's like using a shotgun instead of a rifle; hard to miss. Once heat enters the picture, things can change significantly. FWIW, on average, I pull ~2.5oz per square foot with the 600s and ~3.25oz/ft2 with the 1K, all dry/cured.

Simon

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I tend to agree, Simon. I think most people would agree that we're trying to replicate ideal conditions from nature, and take that indoors. Everything I have found seems to suggest that during a clear day in the middle of summer, the suns lux at the surface of earth is approximately 100,000 lumens. The initial output (lumens at the surface of the bulb) of a 1000 watt hps is around 145,000 lumens, and when moved to the requisite 12-18 inches from the plant, the ideal 100,000 lumens is achieved. The initial output of a 600 watt hps is only around 85,000 ..... so even if the plant is right next to the bulb, you will never achieve ideal conditions.

st0wandgrow said:

I tend to agree, Simon. I think most people would agree that we're trying to replicate ideal conditions from nature, and take that indoors. Everything I have found seems to suggest that during a clear day in the middle of summer, the suns lux at the surface of earth is approximately 100,000 lumens. The initial output (lumens at the surface of the bulb) of a 1000 watt hps is around 145,000 lumens, and when moved to the requisite 12-18 inches from the plant, the ideal 100,000 lumens is achieved. The initial output of a 600 watt hps is only around 85,000 ..... so even if the plant is right next to the bulb, you will never achieve ideal conditions.

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Ya what he said. And the buds are bigger and better

Sorry but, wattage isn't the end all for weight.
6 plants 19.5 oz, started under 2 600's and end ended under one. 36 inch tall including pots. (lemon G)
One plant left in the corner and forgotten about 3 3/4 oz's grown in the shade of other plants under and older 6. (NYPD)

Got five, under an old 600 and we'll get 3 to 4 per plant easy.

Buddy Ganga said:

Sorry but, wattage isn't the end all for weight.

You're right. Lumens (in the correct color spectrum) are.

6 plants 19.5 oz, started under 2 600's and end ended under one. 36 inch tall including pots. (lemon G)

Right on. You had 170,000 initial lumens over those 6 plants. I would hope that you would yield something respectable with that set up.

One plant left in the corner and forgotten about 3 3/4 oz's grown in the shade of other plants under and older 6. (NYPD)

Got five, under an old 600 and we'll get 3 to 4 per plant easy.

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It comes down to science, buddy. Math. If all else is equal (same genetics, nutrients, co2 supplementation, reflector, etc) the square meter under the 1000 watt bulb will outproduce the same square meter under the 600 watt bulb. It's like arguing that the 300 horsepower car is more powerful than the 500 horsepower car.

You were on a nice roll buddy. lol. I don't agree with this one though.

But no shit though...

Maybe this will get through, it's not about the horse power it's about the driver..
No science or math. just common sense.



Glad, keep coming back...

Buddy Ganga said:

Sorry but, wattage isn't the end all for weight.
6 plants 19.5 oz, started under 2 600's and end ended under one. 36 inch tall including pots. (lemon G)
One plant left in the corner and forgotten about 3 3/4 oz's grown in the shade of other plants under and older 6. (NYPD)

Got five, under an old 600 and we'll get 3 to 4 per plant easy.

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Well, the argument isn't that a 600 isn't going to do a good job... Do you think those same plants under a 1000 wouldn't have yielded a little more?

I tend to think they would but the small difference wouldn't make it worth the extra electric and cooling needed to run a 1000w...

Just sayin.. and I love my 600w and have no plans on upgrading, it does just fine.

Buddy Ganga said:

But no shit though...

Maybe this will get through, it's not about the horse power it's about the driver..
No science or math. just common sense.


Glad, keep coming back...

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Sorry buddy. But your comparison uses you as the driver under the 600 and 1000. I am not arguing with you or wanted a three day fight. lol. But the 1000W will yield more. I thought everyone agreed on that, the million dollar argument is how much more? Does it justify the extra 400w per light? The extra cost of the equipment? etc. I have more 600's than 1000s, I gladly use them, but there is no way in fuck they produce as much as my Raptor/Lumatek/Hortilux combo.
We do agree, a great grower will take a 600 and whoop all over the average joe with any bulb he desires.
The tricks are where it's at, keep showin em. I appreciate it.

^ I like that answer, except all the local growers I've been
Talking to said that they can also get more with the 600
Compared to the 1000,as in which is more cost efficient
To run. I agree you get more of a yeild with the 1000 but is
the extra half to oz you get really worth all the extra money
To buy, run an maintain the 1000w NO. In the long run if your
Going to be expanding I would def use 1000's but my room
Would have to be pretty big to use 1000's as I'm purchasing either 4 or 6
600w's. Prolly Finns do 4 600's for flower an use my current lights
For my veg. Clones will be gettin the t5 treatment until rooted.



Thanks for all your input .




One last question how much of an area do YOU think I should
Use for 1 600w ???

stumpjumper said:

Well, the argument isn't that a 600 isn't going to do a good job... Do you think those same plants under a 1000 wouldn't have yielded a little more?

I tend to think they would but the small difference wouldn't make it worth the extra electric and cooling needed to run a 1000w...

Just sayin.. and I love my 600w and have no plans on upgrading, it does just fine.

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I'm not arguing anything, I'm stating a fact based on my own experience.
We run several flower tents and saw the difference side by side.
The only difference was the wattage of the lights.

Which is why we are trying to mix the flower with 600's early and then finish under the 1000's.
We would like to see where this big difference comes in, because so far we haven't seen it.

MC, they say 6.5x6.5 for the foot main foot print for 600's and 8x8 for 1000's.

mrcokeandcrown said:

^ I like that answer, except all the local growers I've been
Talking to said that they can also get more with the 600
Compared to the 1000,as in which is more cost efficient
To run. I agree you get more of a yeild with the 1000 but is
the extra half to oz you get really worth all the extra money
To buy, run an maintain the 1000w NO. In the long run if your
Going to be expanding I would def use 1000's but my room
Would have to be pretty big to use 1000's as I'm purchasing either 4 or 6
600w's. Prolly Finns do 4 600's for flower an use my current lights
For my veg. Clones will be gettin the t5 treatment until rooted.



Thanks for all your input .




One last question how much of an area do YOU think I should
Use for 1 600w ???

Click to expand...

If you calculate the kilowatt hours for the additional 400 watts you're using with the 1000 watt versus the 600 watt, you end up paying an additional $14.40 a month to use the 1000 watt. $14.40 works out to what? Maybe a gram or two of medicine? I'm fairly certain I more than make up for that in weight.

Your last question about area really depends on what type of reflector you're using, and if you have a light mover of any sort. I would say the light dispersion wouldn't be much more than 1 square meter if you're keeping your light about 18 inches above your canopy.

Buddy Ganga said:

I'm not arguing anything, I'm stating a fact based on my own experience.
We run several flower tents and saw the difference side by side.
The only difference was the wattage of the lights.

Which is why we are trying to mix the flower with 600's early and then finish under the 1000's.
We would like to see where this big difference comes in, because so far we haven't seen it.

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There are two ways you could look at this experience: You can either deduce the lights aren't that different in overall effect, or you can wonder whether you're talking full advantage of your inputs. I took a look at your "How I do it" thread. If you don't mind my slaying with as kind of intent as possible, there's way to go before tapping the available constraints. It took me years to get my garden to its current state.

MC, they say 6.5x6.5 for the foot main foot print for 600's and 8x8 for 1000's.

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FWIW, I'd suggest ~3x3, maybe a touch larger if there's flexibility, for a 600 and ~4.5x4.5 for a 1K.

Simon

Buddy Ganga said:

I'm not arguing anything, I'm stating a fact based on my own experience.
We run several flower tents and saw the difference side by side.
The only difference was the wattage of the lights.

Which is why we are trying to mix the flower with 600's early and then finish under the 1000's.
We would like to see where this big difference comes in, because so far we haven't seen it.

MC, they say 6.5x6.5 for the foot main foot print for 600's and 8x8 for 1000's.

Click to expand...

Buddy, I know you don't find math relevant to the conversation, but I'm gonna throw a little math at you anyway:

The cost to purchase a 1000 watt digital ballast is almost identical to that of a 600 watt digital, so we'll throw that out the window. It's a wash. The cost to purchase a 1000 watt HPS Hortilux Eye is about $130.00. The same bulb for a 600 watt is about $125.00. For this example we'll asume that the bulb will be used for 1 year, or approximately 6.5 cycles when dealing with a typical 8 week flowering Indica.

So, if we take 4 plants, and stick them under a 1000 watt set up x 6.5 cycles, it will cost us $177.80 more for the year ($5 more for the bulb, and $14.40 more in kilowatt hours per month) than it would for the 600 watt set up.

6.5 cycles per year x 4 plants each cycle = 26 plants. 26 plants divided by the additional cost of $177.80 = $6.83 per plant. That equates to roughly 1/2 a gram.

So, if you feel the 1000 watt will yield you more than a half gram per plant more than the 600, it's worth the cost. In other words, it's a more efficient set up than a 600 watt.

If you're growing indoors, and you are good at what you do, the amount of light will be your limiting factor every single time. With my signature strain grown under 600w lights I used to hit .80-.85 grams per watt. When I switched to 1000w lights I hit .84 GPW with the same strain. I saw almost a 40% increase in yield, and the only thing I changed was my lights. If you switch from 600w to 1000w lights and you don't see a huge increase in yield, you have a problem somewhere else in your grow, the plants are either not getting enough CO2 or nutrients or some other limiting factor.

I think people are giving too much credit to the 'efficiency' of 600w lights. 600w lights give off a little be more lumen per watt, that's it. The efficiency has no beneficial effect on plants, and a negligible effect on your electric bill.

I take the term 600s are more efficient because not as much light is wasted and your bill is lower, that being said 1000w will give a bigger yield.
I use a 3 x 3 footprint for 600s, 4 x 4 for 1000, but the Raptor has a 5 x 5 footprint. Those are the footprint of primary light. It may cover 10 x 10 at the ceiling and you including the secondary outside the footprint. But it would be best to use 4 - 1000s for a 10x10, not 1.

I use a 4'x4' footprint with my 600... pulled 13oz.. .61 gpw.. that was using no Co2 though.. Fuck I was happy with that..