Agar bitches

canndo

Well-Known Member
Coir/verm nothing special; also just topped off the colonized sub w/ ewc/verm. Some call this a casing layer but when you ask what I cased with I assume you mean what kind of substrate did I spawn to...right?

No.


Casing is different than substrate. Casing is a non nutritive, high water absorbent topping that signals the mycelium as a single organism that it is out of food while it imparts water to that mycelial mass.

Coir is nutrient rich.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
If we simply lay more substrate on colonized substrate all we get are delays and possible contamination.

And no signal.

A true casing layer (the term is badly misused, I have even seen the term "casings" as though that means anything at all. They may even be perverting "castings" which is worm excrement.

It is absolutely true that cubensis does not need to be cased. HOWEVER, as we discussed earlier, bare colonized substrates just don't absorb water. The organism needs lots of it. The primary limit to fruiting is moisture and your mycelium will never exhaust all of your substrates nutrient. It will run out of water before it alters the ph to the point where that substrate is inhospitable.


So, the most effective way to supply water to the whole system is to have a nice, thick, sparsely colonized layer of fluffy, spongy casing with an initially high ph value.

This casing layer is also highly conducive to being colonized by beneficial bacteria which will (no studies have been done for this species but others show compelling results), support denser flushes.

As I said, no casing is needed but if one wishes to orchestrate a succession of thick, lush flushes then casing is pivotal.

Furthermore, one can more easily alter ph using casing than using substrate.

We want our substrate to be smack dab in the center of optimal ph in order to have the organism grow strong and rapidly. Then we can introduce a lopsided ph casing that is heavily buffered to absorb the acid metabolic juices the mycelium expels. When there is a huge mass of powerful mycelium underlying a less than ideal casing environment then it just doesn't matter, those little knots will set up shop anyway..and they are more likely to be profuse.

We are now far less susceptible to our arch enemy, trich which all but refuses to grow in alkaline environments.

And we can easily bring that layer up to maximum water capacity. No "dunking" necessary.

There is another way, the use of "water crystals" when assembling our substrate.

The crystals leave the substrate open and airy while it is being invaded and steadily releases water directly to the mycelium as the substrate otherwise becomes exhausted of water.

While this seems to have no effect on the first flush, subsequent flushes are far larger and more flushes are common.

Curiously, after what I have said about casing, the addition of water crystals (balls to be exact, tge crushed ones don't work), placing them in substrate seems to do nothing at all.
 

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
This is how I understand casing ....well maybe not quite as well as you do. Did not make enough ewc/verm casing to fully cover up the entire sub this time so there are a few bare spots here and there.
First spawned to bulk long ago using a horse poo monotub fill kit from a vendor which produced several healthy flushes. Later on decided to DIY a coir/verm sub which kept on giving flushes seemingly forever. I think it has to a lot to with the “spongy-er” nature of a coir sub as opposed to horse poo which while one would think is much higher in nutrients it becomes much more compacted when it dries out.
Never heard of water crystals; not sure I get what you mean by them. I might skip the casing layer on the 2nd tub just to see what happens but I trust this process. Have had success doing it exactly the way I do; nobody can steer me away now.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
This is how I understand casing ....well maybe not quite as well as you do. Did not make enough ewc/verm casing to fully cover up the entire sub this time so there are a few bare spots here and there.
First spawned to bulk long ago using a horse poo monotub fill kit from a vendor which produced several healthy flushes. Later on decided to DIY a coir/verm sub which kept on giving flushes seemingly forever. I think it has to a lot to with the “spongy-er” nature of a coir sub as opposed to horse poo which while one would think is much higher in nutrients it becomes much more compacted when it dries out.
Never heard of water crystals; not sure I get what you mean by them. I might skip the casing layer on the 2nd tub just to see what happens but I trust this process. Have had success doing it exactly the way I do; nobody can steer me away now.
Ah! Everyone has a system and most of them work. Why? Because cubs and oysters fruit in spite of the grower.

This is not to diminish your efforts here, I am just trying to have a conversation which may benefit others reading along.

I have always approached my endeavors here as being always liable to improvement.


There is something to be said for a super dense canopy.

My efforts now are toward getting oyster mushrooms to fruit at higher and higher temperatures.

I believe, regarding casing, that greatly increased total yield can be demonstrated using a good casing vs no casing.

The crystals? They are a polymer that absorbs many dozens of times their weight or volume in water
 

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
Wow .... had to skip town on business for a few days and planned on flipping the tub before I left but then of course I got super baked and forgot to turn on the lights/timer. Tub has started pinning anyway with hardly any light. Currently on 12/12 cycle. If I can pull off flushes even half as good as Canndo’s I will consider it a success. Pics coming soon... stay tuned
 

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
Getting an uneven pin set because these were nocced from an MS syringe. 2nd tub is almost ready to fruit; planning to case and flip next week.
 

StonedGardener

Well-Known Member
Agar, bitches, is how I roll. There's not enough threads around here about growing shrooms and way too many about really bad drugs most people shouldn't even fuck around with. I have yet to see one that even mentions agar work. Agar is a great way to start a mushroom grow because you separate potential contaminants before trying to spawn to a substrate. Let us dive right in....
Agar is an ez way to ensure you have a clean culture before trying to spawn to grains. Its a form of gelatin sold in many Asian food stores. The idea is to place mushroom spores onto a 2-D surface and let it grow out. The agar allows the mycelium to grow only on the surface; exposing any present contaminants visually. You can then extract a clean culture from a dirty plate with an exacto knife or scalpel and transfer only the clean mycelium onto another agar plate. Allow this culture to grow all the way out to the edge and if it stays nice and white you've got yourself a clean culture to spawn grains with or transfer further to keep a desired culture in play.
Agar is traditionally done using lab equipment like Petri dishes but I found methods using common household items found in any store thanks to the experts at sites like shroomery. We use glad mini rounds instead and sterilize in a pressure cooker. You need to drill 1/4" holes in the lids for gas exchange and then use a small piece of micro pore medical tape over it as a filter.
The potato dextrose agar recipe we use is really as simple as it gets:
2.5g agar powder
2 tsp dry potato flakes
1/2 cup water
Drop or two of raw honey or corn syrup
Adding a few optional drops of red food coloring in the agar recipe makes any contaminants present stand out. Heat up the water on a stove just below boil and slowly mix in the agar and potato flake until fully dissolved. Add in a few drops of honey or Karo and optional food coloring. Stir to dissolve & pour about 1/4 inch of the agar mix into the mini rounds. Should make about 10 agar plates. Allow to cool until a solid gel and place the lids on. Wrap each lid with foil. Sterilize in a pressure cooker for 90 mins. Allow to cool to room temp overnight.
Next step is to streak the plates. I use a sterilized cotton swab for this. Start by flaming a spore syringe and squirting a bit of spore juice onto the swab inside a still air box. Open the lid a crack; just enough to get the swab in there and lightly streak diagonally across the agar plate in one fast motion. Seal and continue streaking each plate with a new sterile swab; flaming the needle again each time. Start by inoculating only 5 or 6 plates; save the rest in the fridge wrapped in foil for doing transfers later on. They will remain sterile in the fridge as long as they are not opened.
This thread will be periodically updated with pics of my technique and results as they occur. This will be a long term project. In the meantime feel free to post anything shroom related.
You should take your agar britches and get some nice bacteria colonies started.
 

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
So far we have pulled over 2.5 oz dry shrooms from the first tub this week and it’s still pinning. The fruits are growing sporadically now so guess this is where the 1st flush “ends” and 2nd begins. Gave it a heavy misting this am. In other news the 2nd monotub has been poly-filled and placed under lights; casing layer is next.
 

StonedGardener

Well-Known Member

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
Yep ...this is two different varieties of cubes all mixed together. Cubes are cubes...they all grow the same. These 2 seem to play nicely but I forgot that I had forgot to label the agar plates at the start of this project. Didn’t make enough casing to cover the whole sub; next time I’ll make a bit more. You are right; soon as I applied the ewc casing and put it under lights it started pinning; casing layer is a pinning trigger.
That a multi culture?

Those primordia all over the sides there. They should be coming up.
 

Dreypa

Well-Known Member
Pretty,pretty......looks like works of art......what specie ? Oh that mushroom high, so euphoric, everything takes on new dimension. Ya got me intrigued. You were great in "Jaws".
Just cubensis. Found a naturally occuring albino mutation from a line of reverted melmaks last year. First picture above is third or fourth run of f2.
IMG_20201029_144349.jpg
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
Yep ...this is two different varieties of cubes all mixed together. Cubes are cubes...they all grow the same. These 2 seem to play nicely but I forgot that I had forgot to label the agar plates at the start of this project. Didn’t make enough casing to cover the whole sub; next time I’ll make a bit more. You are right; soon as I applied the ewc casing and put it under lights it started pinning; casing layer is a pinning trigger.
Dude, yes, they are all pretty much the same, however, they do not all fruit in perfect sync.

Had you just used the expression that put up all those primordial you might have had a HUGE flush.

Multiple expressions will fruit in succession but the earliest will hog all the nutrients. Your best yield will always be monoculture.


You have an expression that likely will put out large volumes of fruit if you can isolate it.
 
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