All Natural Organics. The Dons' Summaries + FAQ Thread. <2017-'18>

Discussion in 'Organics' started by DonTesla, Nov 17, 2017.


    DonTesla Well-Known Member

    All is well for sure...Thanks SSG, and yeah good point on price, thats right.

    whats the UV like in the agromax 10k finisher though, if you can find out?

    Glad to see you're on the frass alas though, lol!!

    Meal worm is the inferior type, in my experience
    Cricket frass.. the next step up, still disappointed me
    but by far the best .. black soldier fly frass.. amazing depends what they use!

    I only recommend / buy / sell the BSF type, myself!!

    How's your bison compost for density, is it fluffier than cow manure?
    firstnamelast likes this.

    DonTesla Well-Known Member

    I just paid $20 for shipping an envelope that was a bit too fat to squeeze through the skinny slot.
    I feel your pain!

    The good news is that I have never had a store not listen to me when I asked them to carry this meal, that meal.. maybe you can get your local store owners to do the same.

    But honestly, each ounce of organic is worth like. $300 to me. So you're gonna be up over $3-5k in premium terpy organic (did I mention super smooth and clean?) herb soon too.. yummmmm / priceless..
    firstnamelast likes this.

    SSGrower Well-Known Member

    Ill check up on the uv but Ive discountinued the use of my pure uv 75/25 uva/b freeing it up for a fr

    So, many a time I have thought to hop the fence of the buffalo enclosure near my house and gather a few pies :fire:but that ends badly, the brand is buffaloam, aged 2 year from ranch in north central co. Its really dry and fluffy.
    DonTesla likes this.

    firstnamelast Well-Known Member

    I know what you mean. I was expecting something reasonable. A lot of the other stuff at KIS has free shipping just not on their larger (50 lb+) items. I didn't think this was going to be that heavy for a small kit. If I wanted to buy all my stuff online (not sure where to start locally) would you say either of these sources has reasonable prices for bulk?

    I'm thinking about buying the biggest bags I can to save some money in the long run. Also, are fabric pots a necessity when doing your method? Just curious. In other news I have a bunch of extra LED boards that I'm going to use in another room to try and grow some heirloom vegetables indoors lol wish my luck! If you know where to get some good vegetable and fruit tree seeds for cheap let me know! Thanks!
    DonTesla likes this.

    firstnamelast Well-Known Member

    Lol I just noticed you already recommended Build a Soil. I've been checking them out ever since I've been looking for soil but I wasn't sure if their prices were right. Funds aren't tight but I'd like to get the best bang for my buck and find a good sources for the future. Plus still gotta order some seeds! :D
    DonTesla likes this.

    firstnamelast Well-Known Member

    Is malted barley a substitute for this method? And do you make any teas?? I was wondering if I should or not
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
    DonTesla likes this.

    firstnamelast Well-Known Member

    Ok last question, trying to make the complete shopping list. I know I probably have a few doubles and optional items stacked up unnecessarily here. Trying to summarize everything but I still have no idea yet lol but here goes:

    Bagged fungal compost
    Coir or peat?
    Black soldier fly frass
    Malted barley
    Neem meal
    Kelp meal
    Alfalfa meal
    Pumice or biochar?
    Organic rice hulls or buckwheat hulls?
    Soft rock phosphate
    Glacial rock dust
    Coconut water, cal mag, or live enzymes?
    Diatomaceous earth or diatomite?
    Aloe vera plant
    Coconut plasma
    Organic rice
    Succanat or unbranded equivalent, raw organic evaporated coconut sugar, or mineral rich?
    1/2 Gal cows milk

    I don't want to double up on anything if I don't need to right now. I'd like to keep it as simple as possible, with the best ingredients possible, and as little ingredients as possible to start with lol so I can grasp the whole process a little quicker. And then add in other stuff later when I know what I'm doing.

    Whatever you recommend as the absolute best option I'll go with! I feel like I won't understand any of this until I get my hands dirty hah so sorry for so many dang questions! The knowledge is much appreciated, you seem to be a bit further ahead in the area than most from what I've seen. So keep the up good work my friend! I am impressed
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
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    Dear ol" Thankful Grower!

    Dear ol" Thankful Grower! Well-Known Member

    DonTesla likes this.

    DonTesla Well-Known Member

    Those are two of the better places in the states I would say.
    You can spend $30 per kg or 2 per item in most stores here.. so a good $300 minimum not including base lights pots & seeds.
    Factor in free shipping and its 85 for about 15 kg .. thats like 5 to 6 a kilo

    Re the heirlooms.. Your boy Ja can toss in some for free he only messes with heirlooms and tasty / exotic ones at that.. he normally sell all the personal top 30+ favs for 99 bones in a nice fat package. Easy!!

    Also..If you have a head shop or hydro shop near by, give me their name and or number, I can get them to carry anyone's product really.. my girl is always telling me I should be paid for everything I do, lol, but I do enjoy getting stores to change their ways and open their eyes to growing the way it should be..I know one day a bunch of stores will be buying off us anyway.

    Yes it is a sub.. I don't use malted barley but there are many ways to start a fungus party!

    For me, if doing big pot sizes I do no teas.. if doing small pot sizes, I tea em up with just plain bacterial or fungal teas, depending where they are on their lifespan... more bacterial in the beginning, more fungal towards the end..

    No worries, it takes some repetition for all this to sink in the first time around.. lol don't feel bad, there are people learning from this as we speak.. their prices are good though I would say. If readers here know of a better place they will mention it too. I hear you though!!

    You're awesome!
    firstnamelast likes this.

    SSGrower Well-Known Member

    So apparenty now there is a 10k + uva and a 10k finisher, when I got my 2ft bulbs the 10k finisher was sold more like the 10k + uva so who really knows?
    DonTesla likes this.

    DonTesla Well-Known Member

    I will try simplify / re break it down like this for you (and future folks) ok mate, check this out, here's all one really needs to grow the terpy, organic killer:

    • 40 % best aeration you can get (suggest pumice and or biochar to start, perlite as a very last resort, can always develop this further once started, don't worry about DE unless using it for a clean top dress with cooling & pest benefits)
    • 20 % fresh castings or diy vermicompost (bagged + humics being a very last resort)
    • Remaining is your coir or peat or fungal compost / manure blend (to start, later to be replaced by diy compost, leaf mould or rotting wood etc)

    Key "foods" to mellow in / "ferment/cook" in to the base:

    • Kelp & Neem (can skip alfalfa for now, fish bone meal, & oyster/crab/crustacean meal, too if using frass)
    • Basalt & Gypsum (can get Soft Rock Phosphate & GRD as you go, scrape into topsoil anytime)

    Key ingredients to get in time for first transplants:
    • BSFly Frass & Endo Myco Fungi (glomus types etc which infect roots inside the cell, very beneficial)

    Useful ingredients to get time for the FLIP:
    • Aloe vera plant or flakes or juice
    • Coconut (Young Thai, or canned, one ingredient)
    • epsom salt (Mg S4 i.e. Vitamin & Mineral Enhancing foliar)
    Then some steps to take once everything is started:
    • Start diy "labs" (milk, rice, glass)
    • Start Citrus Ferment (develop natural organic pest spray regime)
    • Fungal inoculation for flowering such as Grokashi (can sub with frass, malted barley, red wheat bran, sifted oat flour, etc)
    The things one can do in spring / summer / fall to make 2019 & subsequent years better / easier:
    • Collect leaves for pure leaf compost (shred to speed up)
    • Start outdoor compost (see @greasemonkeymann for ideas)
    • Collect leaf mould & or rotting wood from forest areas
    One can just worry about the black font to start, then graduate your way through the grey areas. Hope this helps! One love :)
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
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    Dear ol" Thankful Grower!

    Dear ol" Thankful Grower! Well-Known Member

    @DonTesla hey buddy I have a question forgive me if it’s silly was wondering if you can clone using seaweed extract only as I’m out as my aloe Vera gel I had straight from the plant is all used up and seaweed extract is all I have I still am during perpetual so I don’t wanna just use water and wait for a month thanks for your time!happy growing
    Joe Blows Trees

    Joe Blows Trees Well-Known Member

    Does anyone know of a recipe or use flaxseed in compost/EWC/SST teas? I know I read something about them being useful but Google isn't helping out to well finding any uses in teas.

    DonTesla Well-Known Member

    Thanks for reporting back, SSG. bongsmilie

    @Joe Blows Trees
    Want to use your spare flax do you, bud! I thought I heard it can have a spray that can make it a bit quick to go rancid and that organic may not necessarily be the best always? You can try a tiny one plant test thats weaker than your average recipe..also can use corn, mung beans, red winter wheat(grass), alfalfa seed or anything really.. but I figure many of the same principles would apply either way..

    soak and rinse, soak and sprout, blend aerate for a bit then apply live etc. If doing SST's I would probably use wheatgrass.... Curious to know what you guys are all doing though / any results!

    here's a thread on it, too ..

    @Dear ol" Thankful Grower!
    A seaweed foliar before cloning can help hydrate the plant like kelp would, but I have never used it (Seaweed extract) for cloning itself per se.

    I would recommend a can of pure aloe juice for $1 or so, a very good investment you can drink the rest up for your health ..

    You can also buy a plant and use it for life for much more than just gardening, for as little as $5 or 10.. they like well drained sandy soil

    Awesome b vitamins, among several other categories of beneficials. Its loaded.
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018

    firstnamelast Well-Known Member

    Sorry man I am more of a hands on learner, I'm not trying to annoy. I really do appreciate the breakdown, all these ingredients get overwhelming right out of the gate. I'll buy everything I can find on your list to begin with. You mentioned you had a source for the frass, who do you recommend?
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
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    firstnamelast Well-Known Member

    Oh yea 1 last question: all this stuff I will need to add continually correct? Is there anything that I will probably only buy once at the beginning and never again? Good news got my seeds germinating and my lights built today I'm on my way
    DonTesla likes this.

    DonTesla Well-Known Member

    You will enjoy the journey then..

    Hope the font shades / bullets helped to separate the levels into 2 or 3 sets of tangible priorities..its a really fun journey just take a plunge and get pragmatic.. one step at a time.

    Speaking of which, what is shipping for you to buy amended soil from BAS (Build a soil).. they sell it good to go by the cubic foot, I'm curious!

    As for frass, I can send you a sample whenever checking out at, so you can see how awesome it is before investing in it, and don't have to search to find it. One less worry for the organic start always helps.

    Here's a Bubba Meltdown that was what I swore was dead it was so damn thirsty it was wilted in a hump..... I hit it with some frass. Few hours later I returned and was shocked to see this:
    Bubbas Meltdown Frassed up.jpg
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
    Glrrr and firstnamelast like this.

    DonTesla Well-Known Member

    its all good saying one last question lol as a source of info for you just show some love by tossing us some 'likes' k aha

    But ya! One only need to really add a mix of your meals & minerals every round (or 3) depending on recipe used.. (more often with coots recipe, including his malted barley, less often with my stronger recipes)

    ..all of which can then be simplified though to adding just amended compost / fresh castings when their's room or a need, once available of course, as it takes time to establish naturally.. 2 years or so if not covering or shredding leaves vs say just 6 weeks if covered in black, layered and well amended.. which can be done in winter btw.

    (.. if doing no-till you wont have to continually inoculate with myco's because the old roots will keep them bumping for good. Otherwise add myco's to roots directly at all transplants)

    If building your own compost, you can eliminate all peat & coir which is nice

    If building premium aeration blend albeit eventually, it will also be permanent for most part / designed as such if wanting that. Biochar and pumice (along with diatomite) are perfect examples of more robust permanent aerations with multiple benefits. The decompacting aspect / humus forming aerations like rice hulls / buckwheat hulls / leaf mould / rotting wood can decompose a bit but it helps with soil life, water retention, & yield & other things.. once doing compost, this can be a part of it thus consider this part handled too.

    The other stuff (aloe, coco, epsom) can be less than $5 every time you flip, no big deal to pump up the terps and potency .. the plant can be a one time investment.

    Does that paint a better picture? Hope so! If you build killer castings the rest is easy.
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    Dear ol" Thankful Grower!

    Dear ol" Thankful Grower! Well-Known Member

    Thanks buddy will do didn’t know aloe was so cheap I’ll grab a plant thanks again
    DonTesla likes this.

    DonTesla Well-Known Member

    The small plants are really cheap and they grow decently quick if you don't over water..
    plus they make babies once established..
    there is powder and flakes thatre 200 x concentrated too I wouldn't mind any of them

    Pleasure though!


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