Canada Grows to the 4 Plant Limit

Discussion in 'Indoor Growing' started by DIY-HP-LED, Sep 10, 2017.


    zoic Well-Known Member

    Step away from the TV and try to catch a bite of reality already.
    gb123 and DIY-HP-LED like this.

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    Some in the Medical Community
    There seems to be some long term malicious behavior in the Canadian Medical Threads. When challenged they seem to have ability to delete threads at will, including likes from all participants. This extraordinary event happen twice in 2 days once with a thread called DIY-HP-LED-answer-post that was created maliciously to attack me and deleted almost at will with all the likes etc of the other members. They kept the environment so hostile that none would bother to participate, it is a coordinated team attack by I believe primarily two individuals and a couple of allies and hangers on. They demonstrate a level of experience in doing this abusive and antisocial activity that must show up in the forum statistics as a pattern of abuse. There can be little doubt that such a pattern will be found if someone looks for it. They have abused other members in this way on various disposal threads that are constantly created and deleted as well. They seem to have an extra level of control over the forum and are abusing the privilege, however they obtained it, they also brag of their influence a with certain moderator

    I might get banned from the forum for the above post, but if I did without any explanation, it would not be worth being here. These people have driven away many, they must have good friends indeed, because they are hard to carry. So if the thread is gone, you will know, they have done it twice and seemed to screw a few folks out of likes, etc. not many people can do this on here, most say only a moderator can do such a thing and I agree. But this thread is under my control and we shall see how far this goes.

    Almost all growers in Canada are prescription holders, these people wear it on their sleeves and I believe might be accorded privileged status. We are almost all prescription holders, no Canadian is above another in this regard. In three years i never deleted a post, banned a person or wiped out an entire large thread with likes, at will. These people do it all the time and it's gotta show in the stats.

    Canadian Compassion Club
    Here was the idea I figured that killed a "Canadian Medical Forum" thread. They killed the purpose of the thread. This idea threatened them and they didn't like it, they usually slander Legal Providers, their competition, that's most of what they do. They sell for LP prices too and the money is good.

    I'd like to start a new Canadian National compassion club network and perhaps write an online organizational guide and manual for this purpose. A network of older citizens who grow and distribute medicinal cannabis for low cost or free. The national cooperative organization might mail out medicine and have the legal statues of an LP. They might produce support materials and resources for local operations. We want to drop the price of medicine to as close to zero as we can. We also want to lobby federal and provincial governments for increased rights too. We want to cut the LPs and black market out of the picture with dirt cheap grows for the med and recreational markets, while protecting kids. Older Canadians will be the biggest player and we want to lobby the government for the protection of children and the rights of compassion clubs, med and rec users.
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    Haven't followed the doing of the Donald for a bit

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    Well I'm back on track here and getting going on the grow. Got some business taken care of and I'm ready to move on, for a spell at least. Ya can post part sources, grow light ideas and anything else that might be of benefit to Canadian med and rec growers. Link to your threads if they are useful to others and post pics of yer grows.

    Changed my sig back to my old one, cause it fits better now.

    Though I was thinking about, The Happy Warrior... It would also make a good ID, better grab it quick, but make sure it fits, or ya will look kinda bad, when ya get pissed!;)

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    I got gardening to do tomorrow and some teaching too, might drop by in a bit to keep the thread alive.
    Been slagged on the threads by fanatics and figure it drove a few folks away, but there will be more and better along soon. Perhaps a move to a Canadian forum might be a good plan soon, there should be some around that want some content.

    Keep posting and driving the price of pot through the floor the rec companies and LP's will have a run for their money. Soon as the first home harvests are in after the law changes and the race will speed up real quick in proportion to the retail price. High LP, rec prices and taxes will make their death very quick and the political pressure after legalization will be like nothing you have ever seen. Crime against humanity will be the cry and even a new basic law might be demanded, cause we won't have a say in the one they we will get from the feds and the provinces. We are the ones the law is being written for, we should have a say in that law. Not corporations and the well to do, but the people who were in the trenches all those years in the fight for freedom.

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    My Grow
    Got my water cooled rig partly rebuilt and over the table along with a a couple of air cooled lamps. They've been in flower for a couple of weeks with the veg lights and some other warm white LED lamps, look good, right on schedule.

    Stupidly high power level for 2 plants, but the canopy is close to 7" x 3" and all the light is mostly used at this stage. Didn't upgrade the lamp with citizen cobs, only the center bar and three left on one of the outer bars. Gonna save them for a new 6' x 26" water cooled light with enclosed IP65 drivers, Citizen COBs,with Ideal COB holders. This will be a new design light weight light using the Gen 2 bars. The experimental light will do for now and when the new one goes in after the new year, I'll use this one for parts to build give away lights. There are some medical users I supply, so I have to continue the grow, but hope to set some up in their own grow after legalization.

    Here is the current state of the grow, 900 watt water cooled rig, a 100 watt light bar to cover the extra canopy on the big mother and the 350 watt left overs air cooled lamp covering the end of the grow table. Got a side and back wall lights to boost side buds and I rotate the plants ( OG KUSH) 180 degrees. Gotta gussy up the cords tomorrow and a few other things to get things in order.

    Gotta do a bit more lollipopping and some training, the plant on the left is an old mother with a great canopy and the one on the right is a clone that hasn't filled out as much as I would have liked. I've just about got my 3' x7' canopy now and figure I should get over a pound on the left hand plant and about a pound off the right hand one. I'll start another couple flowering in January after a break for the holidays, harvest for these should be around December first. Might as well renew my prescription for 15 plants, thought this is a test garden for maxing out on the a four plant limit law!
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
    DankBudzzz and Farmer.J like this.

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    Gen 2 Water cooled test bar.
    Spent a couple of hours working on the 3' long water cooled test bar. 4 citizen CLU 048 COBs @ 50 watts each(2x 100 watt driver in parallel pairs). Five red blue 10 watt LEDs in series off a 50 watt [email protected] ma each, total estimated power will be 250 watts for the test bar:

    1. Cleaned tube and channel with steel wool, sanded channel and cooling tube first.
    2. Reamed out ends of cooling tube so brass fitting bits into end better (thinner walled profile and square corners would work better).
    3. Cleaned ends and fittings with alcohol and screwed in with JB weld epoxy to seal around fittings, curing now.
    4. Laid out holes for COB holder screws and wiring holes for COBs and RB LEDs drilled and deburred holes.
    Some tools and materials, thinner walled tubing with square corners would work better, used drill reamer to make the fitting go deeper

    Here is how the pipe thread fits into the cooling tube, slather with epoxy and screw in, make sure the corners are filled in. I think silicone adhesive would be a better choice for this application

    I dropped into the machine shop where I buy my metals for a few minutes, a couple of weeks back and got 3 ft lengths of what was already in their "rack". Thinner wall 1" tubing with square corners would work better and present more area for contact with the channel. Architectural 2" or 3" wide C channel and 1" high sides is cheaper and lighter than the structural C Channel I'm using for the test light. When I order in my 20 ft long aluminum extrusions, I'll go with cheaper, lighter tubing and channel. The material in this 3' test grow light bar cost $15 or $5/ft (before HST), I haven/t priced the extrusions new, but it should run around $3 to $4. The brass fittings used were $2 each and have a 1/2" PEX hose fitting on one end and a pipe thread on the other. I used JB weld epoxy, but feel silicone caulking might be best for this application.
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2017

    Farmer.J Well-Known Member


    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    "The new prohibition starts June 30, 2018 @ 11:59pm". The fight begins then, after a pause to celebrate of course!:eyesmoke:

    Prohibition is a crime against humanity, Trudeau said, "Simple toleration is not enough", I agree, we need a truth and reconciliation commission too. The new law has no input from the community it is being imposed on, a better law will be required after we can organise, and court cases will make one, if the government won't. I've tried to impress upon people the importance of speaking out for a better law, but we are all criminals now and will get the law they give us.

    See the feds are in favor of mailed/delivered of recreational pot, will put price competition on the provinces to keep taxes low, if you can get it by mail. Order from the cheapest province, feds also want 50% of any tax provinces impose, provinces don't like it, feds are trying to keep retail prices for rec low, or it would appear! Both these moves indicate they want a low retail price for recreational pot, LP's cannot be pleased about this!

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    Gen 2 Water cooled test bar continued...
    Got the test bar almost built, or so I thought! Plugged it into the kill-o-watt for a first light test and found it was only drawing 156 watts from the plug! I'm using a known 50 watt unenclosed driver to run the RB monochromes in a 5x series string @300ma, and 2 new enclosed 100 watt drivers to run 4x Citizen CLU048's in 2 x parallel pairs. Trouble is, they are not 100 watt drivers, but 50 watt drivers, labeled as 100 watt, hello ebay! I ordered 3 with a floodlight COB ($11.CDN ea.) for testing, well they failed the honesty test! I should have known, they looked too small anyway and I didn't bother with a bench test of the drivers, my bad. Gonna see my buddy down the road about another 50 watt driver that he has no use for. I figure I'll just add 2 more drivers to the light bar one 50 watt driver per COB before wet bench testing and collecting thermal data.

    Did a quick check on the bench before close up and when I plugged it into the Kill-o-watt I confirmed the drivers were only 50 watts, was not shocked, just have to bitch at ebay and get one more 50 watt driver so I can wet test it on the bench and see if there is a difference in the temperatures of the C channel and cooling tube at 250 watts total power, and say 160 watts thermal load. I might drill a 2mm hole in one of the plastic COB holders to get Tc temps off the negative COB contact. Note the 50 C thermal cut off switch mounted to the inside of the channel with paste. This switch shuts off the power to the line side of the driver's AC power supply in case of cooling system problems and is a safety feature. The switch will automatically reset according to it's hysteresis specs and the lamp will cycle on and off until you fix the problem. The COBs will be thermally protected with a 40 or 50 C NC (Normally Closed type) thermal cut off switch.

    The GEN 2 design make for a much neater job of wiring and COB holders can be used with screws and nuts, no tapping required! Red/Blue 10 watt diodes are attached with double sided adhesive CPU thermal tape and wired in 5 x series from a 50 watt driver and are running @ 300ma. I used nylon wire ties to increase mechanical force on the cooling tube and C Channel, CPU tape adheres the cooling tube to the channel with about 28 sq/inches of surface area for thermal transfer. The C channel will be 3" x 1" or even 2" x 1" architectural for the final build of the water cooled lamp rig (thinner & lighter). Thinner walled 1" square tubing would also be desireable for the final design. For this test rig I just got 3' of whatever was in his metals rack when I dropped in, this C channel is too heavy for the job, much thinner walled profile is better, cheaper and lighter. The COBs and LEDs are mounted directly under the cooling tube so the C channel can be thin.
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017
    ttystikk likes this.

    gb123 Well-Known Member

    you say WE must band together.. what part of the MMJ system that we won isn't already a group that wins in court and will win again
    I don't get this banding together that you keep goin on about?
    we are already!

    lp's are looking at a 10% tax above an OZ lol
    are you sure they don't like this part?

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    When it is legalised, rec and medical users will have more rights, many medical users don't have a prescription, because of difficulty getting a recommendation from their doctor. I had to pay $300 for mine and have to renew, many can't afford this, I supply a few who fall into this group. Who will pay for the many court challenges? The groups that will band together to protect rights, that's who will help to pay for challenges. They will also lobby for better laws that include the people already in the community, people like you and me, we don't have a seat at the table now. The basic law change will make medical growing much easier and freer, at least it looks that way to me, LPs will be cut out of the personal growing business.

    Band together into garden clubs and national organisations or join existing ones to:
    • Protect breeders rights.
    • Protect seed sellers rights
    • Sell/give/trade clones by mail and locally
    • Fight unnecessary restrictions on growing indoors and outdoors
    • Protect growers from unfair insurance industry practices
    • Tenant user and growers rights
    • Stop employer drug testing and discipline
    • Fight for the rights of cannabis users and growers, both medical and recreational
    • Small commercial growers rights and marketing rights, both medical and recreational
    • Compassion clubs rights and statues equal to LPs
    and much more....

    It looks like the feds want to make the retail price low, if they allow delivery nationally of medical and rec (with ID sign/proof of age) the provinces will compete for lowest price. This would put the brakes on provincial tax grabs and is a very good sign they are serious about protecting kids by cutting the price.

    gb123 Well-Known Member

    • Protect breeders rights. ????
    • Protect seed sellers rights ????
    • Sell/give/trade clones by mail and locally !!!!! already done!
    • Fight unnecessary restrictions on growing indoors and outdoors.. have been ..and still doing just that!
    • Protect growers from unfair insurance industry minor detail among other important issues.
    • Tenant user and growers will be THEIR RIGHT!!!
    • Stop employer drug testing and discipline...employers have the right to drug test.....
    • Fight for the rights of cannabis users and growers, both medical and recreational..done that for ever!
    • Small commercial growers rights and marketing rights, both medical and recreational...they dont have the choice in that matter..
    • Compassion clubs rights and statues equal to LPs...thats a given in court as always!
    and much more....

    so..why are you on this....... but don't seem to realize THIS IS Already being done?

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    There might be a few folks who disagree that all the fights have been won or lost. When the basic law is changed it will be new territory for cannabis users/growers legal rights. We are now having a law imposed without any input from the existing community, when we have a new legal statues, we will have a strong voice in amending the laws. "They have rights who dare to defend them", politicians fear organisations. Somethings have been done, we have gotten to this point afterall, but much more needs to be done to free the herb, and the people who use, grow and breed it. Not just medical users, but recreational users and perhaps those who want to prevent future disease too. Not just corporations and the connected should benefit and have a say, but the existing community, the people who care about this issue and know the most about it.
    • Who gets to legally sell seeds, and are there any restrictions on mailing or local sales? Just the connected?
    • Who gets to breed new strains, connected corporations or will those who are leading the way be legal too?
    • LPs can sell clones and medical patients can give them away, but everybody else should have the freedom to sell clones by mail too.
    • Tenants don't have any rights to grow or to use, even medical patients have trouble with this one.
    • Employers should not have the automatic right to drug test for cannabis and fire employees if detected, think Gquebed.
    • The fight for our rights begins when the basic law is changed, up until then it was small scale lobbying, protests and a few of court victories.
    • Small commercial growers rights and marketing rights, both medical and recreational. They will be able to fight for the right then, not before.
    • Compassion clubs rights and statues equal to LPs. A legal path way in the law, nor fought at expense time and effort in court.
    When the law changes, existing and new organisations will begin to have a voice. It could be a strong voice on a local level, with gardening clubs that trade seeds, clones and perhaps buy dry nutrient concentrate to make liquid nutrient concentrate for members etc. Things are changing in the cannabis world in a very big way and a single clinical trial on Alzheimer's or other age related neurodegenerative conditions, could blow the whole thing wide open.

    The line between certain aspects of medical and recreational will become blurred and the majority of medical users will be included in recreational, most won't bother with a perscription. Serious medical use will become increasingly professionalised with compounding pharmacists. Usage will explode in cancer treatment and it will be used on it's own or with chemo, oncologists will love it. Lot's of clinical trials ongoing right now for alzheimer's, schizophrenia, etc, and the results from the preliminary studies are very promising.

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    Gen 2 Water Cooled Test Bar Completed and tested
    The Gen 2 water cooled test bar has been completed and data taken. I got ripped off on the drivers and had to use 4x 50 watt enclosed drivers instead of the two 100 watt ones I planned on. The lamp draws 260 watts from the plug anuses 5 x 50 watt drivers, one enclosed driver per CLU048 Citizen COB. An unenclosed 50 watt driver in one end of the electrical box, runs two parallel series strings of 10 watt LEDs, 5x Red/Blue and 4x Cool white. I replaced the 40C thermal switch with a 60C thermal switch for further testing because the C channel temps were higher than I figured they would be. The C channel ran about 10C warmer than the coolant temperature (tube), I used 20mm wide CPU/LED double sided adhesive thermal tape down the entire 36" length of the tube. This gave a thermal contact area of 28 square inches on a rounded cornered profile 1" square aluminum extrusion, the tape took up the available surface area. If I used a square cornered thinner walled profile I could get about 20% more contact area and get close to 36 square inches. The CPU thermal
    tape has a thermal conductivity of 1.5 W/m-k, a medium paste has a thermal conductivity of 3.7 W/mK and a good quality thermal paste has a conductivity of 8.5 W/mK. With 20% more surface area, using medium quality thermal paste with double the thermal conductivity, I believe the C channel temp could be kept within 5C of the coolant temperature (tube).


    The channel design makes for a neat design, wires can be hidden and COBS can be mounted using paste and COB holders are attached with 3mm screws and nuts. I used nylon wire ties cinched tight to press the tube against the channel, CPY thermal tape adhered the tube to the channel.


    Bench testing the bar with 56 liters of coolant in a tote, the pump had a flow rate of 8 L/min on the bench.

    The C channel ran about 10 C above the cooling tube with 20mm wide CPU tape on rounded corner 1" square tubing. If redesigned using square cornered tubing and good thermal paste, a steel spring wire mechanically pressed tube should cause the C channel to run at less than 5 C and would be a better option than this design. Alternately a good quality thermal epoxy could be used to bond the cooling tube to the channel by clamping it firmly together until the epoxy sets. Some thermal epoxies are as good as as quality thermal paste at conducting heat.

    This design will work, but the channel will run about 10 C warmer than the coolant tempreature.
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2017
    grilledcheese101 likes this.

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    Another Cooling Tube Idea (Gen 3?)
    I have a few 18" long 1" square cooling tubes from another project and I was thinking of a way I could use them to cool COBs. I figure a back plate with holes drilled will allow Floodlight and quality COBs with holders to be used with paste screws and nuts. I could use 1" stand offs, or 30-40mm long 3mm screws perhaps through plastic or copper tubing. COBs could be held on with screws that would go into holes on a backing plate, COB holders could also bemounted like this.

    I gonna build this 18" long test bar with AC COBs, since I have them laying around and they are really inefficient and produce lots of heat, so they would be good for a test. The each draw 65 watts of power to produce 4200 lumens, so this 5 x 50 watt COB light bar will draw about 325 watts and produce 21000 lumens (white light, not burple). I'll replace the fittings with 1/2" hose barb fittings like that shown. I will use double grounding, one ground through the third prong and the other to a copper water pipe. USING AC COBS IS NOT RECOMMENDED AND THIS DESIGN WILL TAKE ALL POSSIBLE SAFETY PRECAUTIONS. I'm gonna test each package for ground faults and the entire assembly as well, before plugging in, If there's one then the panel circuit breaker will pop off.

    The LES is the same width as the cooling tube and screws will go on both sides of the tube into a back plate on the opposite side of the tube.

    Even though this tubing profile has rounded corners, it still can hold a Citizen CLU048 COB and a cheap holder can be used as shown. A square cornered profile would be a better choice, but I believe this might work well enough. Just need to find a plate to put on the back of the tube to hold the screws and nuts so the COBs and/or holders can be tightened. This will allow direct attachment of the COBs to the cooling tube with quality thermal paste/pads and make for a still lighter and cheaper design. I think I'll build the AC COB light bar and test it out and if everything looks ok, I'll build a 200 watt version with 2 Citizen CLU 048 COBs and 2 100 watt enclosed drivers, I have on order (real 100 watt drivers!). I might call my metals place and order up a few feet of square cornered 1" square tubing with thinner walls than the stuff I used in the 3 ft long test light bar for the 4 COB 200 watt citizen test lamp.

    COBs with holders and AC or DC floodlight LEDs should work with this cooling bar, let's call it Gen 3 for now. I have an old piece or 2"x1" rectangular tubing I might rip on the table saw to make a back plate
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2017

    grilledcheese101 Well-Known Member

    20171021_185237.jpg this is my 140w $20 grow light using e27 sockets and 10w bulbs modded a bit. 30k+ lumens roughly 200 lumens per watt. It wrecks my camera when i try to photograph it.. never had that happen with cfls lol.
    DIY-HP-LED likes this.

    ttystikk Well-Known Member

    How did you calculate 200 lumens per watt? That seems very high.
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    DrBlaze Well-Known Member

    Yeah you've posted this a couple of times. We've got a couple threads here on using led bulbs for growing. The best bulbs (14-15 watt) deliver about 100 lumens per watt with the diffusers on, and maybe 15-20% more once the diffusers are removed. The smaller bulbs (9-10 watts) are slightly less efficient. I think you might want to read the packaging again.
    ttystikk likes this.

    grilledcheese101 Well-Known Member

    Lol the package states 800 lumens but if you have a lumen meter and can read what tthey are actually putting out is different than a box rating thru a plastic lense.... real world stats man.
    ttystikk likes this.

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