Canada Grows to the 4 Plant Limit

Discussion in 'Indoor Growing' started by DIY-HP-LED, Sep 10, 2017.


    grilledcheese101 Well-Known Member

    With a lumen meter ive read 28k lumens at canopy level. Evenly distributed. 28000 ÷ by 140 watts (14 bulbs @10w) = 200. How do you calculate lumens? Do you just estimate off of the stats from factory? Thatd be kinda dumb.

    DrBlaze Well-Known Member

    That 28000 lux, not lumens. Big difference.

    If that light gave you 28000 lux evenly over a square meter (which is what lux means) then you could claim 200lm/w. I'm betting that your grow area is much smaller than that.

    200 lm/w is what the very best leds in the world put out. If anyone could get that efficiency with 50 cent light bulbs we'd all be using them
    ttystikk likes this.

    grilledcheese101 Well-Known Member

    The difference between the units lumen and luxis that the lux takes into account the area over which the luminous flux is spread. A flux of 1000lumens, concentrated into an area of one square metre, lights up that square metre with an illuminance of 1000 lux. Lol copy and paste cause im to ignorant to try and explain it myself but not tryna piss antone off but 1 lux equals 1 lumen m2 if im not mistaken so im still within a great reading my dude.

    grilledcheese101 Well-Known Member

    How do you calculate your grow space in relation to lumens per meter squared im in a 12 square ft area and 1 meter is 10. Something feet squared. What am i doing wrong lol

    DrBlaze Well-Known Member

    In your closet grow thread you said its 2x3 feet. The area you are actually lighting and measuring is just a bit bigger than that Home depot shopping basket I see there
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
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    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    An Experimental Water cooled Light Bar Gen3
    I have a few 1" square 18" long water cooled bars from a previous project and thought I would experiment with a different way of mounting COBs, in this case 5 x AC 50 watt warm white and grow COBs. The COBs are mounted using screws and standoffs mounted to a "back plate" attached to the tube with thermal tape and nylon wire ties. Thermal paste is used between the COBs and cooling tube and the driver chips and LES sit directly over the tube. The 5 x 50 watt AC COBs draw 298 watts on a quick dry bench test or an average of 59.6 watts each. Each COB produces 4200 Lumens x 5 COBs = 21000 lumens. As for efficacy 21000/298= 70 lumens/watt, fit only for thermal testing, an inefficient and dangerous apparatus! I'm gonna wet bench test it tomorrow and try to keep from frying myself with some extra special grounding!

    Completed and ready to kill! Hook up the extra ground wire and hoses, add some chains to hang it and it should be ready for the survival test, its and mine. I wonder if the nylon stand off will heat up, got my K type thermocouple to take some Tc and other readings.

    I ripped a piece of 1" x 2" rectangular aluminum tubing on a table saw to make two pieces of channel for the back plate. The cooling tube is attached to the back plate with thermal adhesive tape and nylon wire ties.
    On a Citizen COB version of a test lamp I'd put the enclosed drivers on the back plate and use the same tie wraps around the cooling tubes to attach the drivers
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
    ttystikk likes this.

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    An Experimental Water cooled Light Bar Gen3
    I've completed bench testing the 18" AC COB lamp and found the results were very promising and even though one of the $2 CDN COBs failed during the test. The light is easy and cheap to build, the square cornered 1" square aluminum tubing, to build the next test light and final design is only $1.30/ft CDN. I'm gonna order 3 x 4' lengths and make a 5 x Citizen CLU 048 test lamp out of one of them.

    With cheap heat sink paste the Tc temps on the outside edges of the COBs about half way from the cooling tube were only 37.2 C! The coolant temp was 27.2 C and the ambient temp was 22 C. DC floodlight COBs should perform the same and square cornered 1" tubing would present 20% more contact area to the COBs. I'm gonna build a 4 ft long test bar as soon as the 100 watt drivers arrive. I ordered 50 x M3x23mm brass stand offs and some screws from ebay as well.

    The 5 x 50 watt AC COBs drew 287 to 290 watts from the plug.
    ttystikk likes this.

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    An Experimental Water cooled Light Bar Gen3. Putting it to Work
    I "m using the 18" long water cooled bar on the end of the grow table and have it tied into the cooling system for the big lamp. The 290 watt 5 x AC COB bar sits across the end of the grow table and takes the place of the 338 watt air cooled leftovers lamp. I'm using the leftovers lamp to provide extra coverage of the old mother on the other end of the table, the damn thing is huge!

    The 18" water cooled bar is on the right at the end of the large water cooled light. The 335 watt leftovers lamp is hanging on the outside of the big light over the old mother whose canopy is almost 4' wide x 3'+ long

    I changed the fittings to 1/2" on the lightbar and tapped into the cooling system of the big light.

    Because the water cooled light bar uses AC COBs, I provided a second direct ground to a bronze fitting for a copper heating pipe. This is in addition to the third prong plug ground. Using a second direct ground is the only way to use these kinds of COBs safely, with an air or water cooled fixture, if the COB develops a ground fault, the breaker trips. Plugging the lamp into a GFI breaker wall socket would be even safer.

    I also raised the side and back lights up about 8" and the plants can use the light better and be moved closer to the walls. I figure when the new light rig is on the garden and I've got things down to around the kilowatt level for the grow table (might get rid of the side lights), I should get about a kilogram per harvest. With a four plant limit (initially) a 1KW flowering setup should yield well over two pounds every two months. These 2 x OG Kush's are three weeks into flower.
    Still a stupid amount of power on the garden, but I figure I'll tone it down and measure the results in coming harvests. I should be able to get what I'm after for about a KW of power. I have a 3 gram a day prescription (15 plants), lots of extra lights, a bit of extra space in the flower room and a buddy has a sativa dominate clone (Mobydick) for me...
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
    PSUAGRO., DrBlaze and ttystikk like this.

    ttystikk Well-Known Member

    Nice work. With top shelf COB LED chips, guys are regularly pulling 1.5gpw and some are even hitting 2. I think your goal is thus eminently reasonable, if not conservative.
    DrBlaze likes this.

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    Hi Yoda!
    I'm getting some square cornered 1" tubing tomorrow and will start work on the final test lamp after the drivers arrive. If the test with the citizens CLU048s works out, I'll build a new 26" x 6' design after the new year. I figure a gram a watt is ok, since in Canada efficiency is not the big factor, plant limits are. Heat is not waste most of the year and I usually take july and august off from growing anyway. I figure if this works out you could sandwich a 1" square tubing in between two COBs with holders and use standoffs or long 3mm screws to connect them together. Instead of using a backing plate like in my design, you would just use another COB and holder pointing in the opposite direction. Bolt yer COBs on back to back with the 1" square tubing in between, for your vertical light system.

    I figure the Citizen COBs should give over a gram a watt, but up here that is not the metric I use, since I recover the wasted energy and can use it 80% of the time. The plant limits are the biggest factor if someone wants to stay inside the new law, I figure 800 watts to 1 KW on two plants like I'm growing would be about the practical limit and next grow I'm gonna try a lower power level with out the side lights. I figure over time I'll get it down to a reasonable level of power.
    ttystikk likes this.

    globalz Well-Known Member

    honestly @DIY-HP-LED everytime I see your watercooled rigs I go like this :clap:.

    Hopefully we get to see pictures of the final result of these two og's.
    ttystikk likes this.

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    Getting some 1" square aluminum tubing for a 4' long test lamp this week, it will use 5 citizen CLU048 COBs using COB holders and medium quality paste or thermal silicone pads. I'll have to wait for the slow boat from China for drivers, brass standoffs etc that are on order. I should have the test lamp completed shortly after the parts arrive, The cooling tube and backplate assembly will be completed before then. If the tests work out I'll order up the rest of the drivers and materials for the final 6' long 3 bar lamp.

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    Here is the CANNABIS ACT introduced by the federal government in Parliament. Parts of the law are currently being amended by the government and the final bill will go through a third and final reading in the house, then onto the senate, then the Governor General etc. Legalisation day is tentatively set for July 1st 2018 at the latest, but it could happen a bit sooner to avoid a smoke in at the Canada Day celebration on parliament hill!

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    Built Another Grow Light System Water Cooler
    Was down at the scrap yard today and got another $10. CDN car heater core. I have a smaller air cleaner ($2. thrift store) that I cut a section out of the back and top of the filter compartment and the heater core fit in nearly perfectly. I used self adhesive weather foam weather stipping on the bottom and front side, then closed the back and sealed around the top with black duct tape. The air cleaner has a centrifugal blower and draws air through the heater core.
    I pulled some tape away and slid the end off the filter compartment to show the heater core

    I'm using one of these circulation pumps to run this cooler for now and I'm testing it out on the basement floor. I'm using it to cool the reservoir down a bit more right now, but I might use it to move some heat up stairs with the new cooler. This kind of pump will move 5 to 7 liters a minute through a system with close to the claimed head level, I might use this as a main pump for the cooling system since it has a much better head than the one I'm using now.
    circ pump.jpg
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2017
    OLD MOTHER SATIVA likes this.

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    Gen 3 Grow Light Water Cooling Tube
    I'm building a 4' long test bar when the parts arrive by slow boat from China, it will be similar to the AC COB test light shown earlier and currently on extended test over the end of my grow table. Here are some photos of a 1" square architectural aluminum tubing with 1/16" thick walls and sharp corners. The tubing ended up costing about $1/ft+tax and I got 3 x 4'=12 ft for $13.

    Here is a pic of the 1" square aluminum extrusion profile, a 1/2" brass PEX fitting with a 7/8" pipe thread on one end will be used to seal the end and provide a connector for the 1/2" hose. I'll seal the fitting and corners with silicone caulking after cleaning with alcohol and slathering the fitting with silicone then screwing it into the aluminum. If the brass fitting didn't bite into the aluminum and thread into the end, I would use JB weld epoxy instead of silicone. Since the brass fitting has a good mechanical connection to the aluminum tubing, I'll use silicone, curing shouldn't be an issue for the small amount needed.
    20171027_190409 (2).jpg

    The brass 1/2" PEX fittings with a pipe thread on one end, that I'm gonna use to plug the ends, cost $2 CDN each. This will thread right into the aluminum tubing and cut a thread. When the tube end and fitting are cleaned with alcohol and slathered with silicone or epoxy it will seal the tube end.
    20171017_172134 (2).jpg

    Here is a Citizen CLU 048 COB and a cheap plastic holder for it, laid on the 1" square tubing along with a scale. The holder is aligned so that the COB is also aligned on the tubing as shown in the picture, there is plenty of room for screws to thread into brass standoffs alongside the tube. Most of the COB back's will be covered by the tube and I'm planing on using thermal pads between the COBs and tube. On the test lamp I'll drill a hole in the plastic COB holder over the negative contact on the COB to get Tc readings with a K type thermocouple.
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2017
    ttystikk likes this.

    ANC Well-Known Member

    Most patients that use a lot, need at least 3g per day, or a bit over 2 pounds a year. I just don't see the average new grower to come anywhere close to hitting that with 4 plants.

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    In theory one could have a harvest every 2 to 3 months of two x one pound plants, or 8 to 12 pounds a year. A newbie growing in soil with good light might get a 1/4 to 1/2 lb per plant. It depends on one's needs or desires, most folks can learn to do much better in a couple of harvests, if they are motivated.

    I'm supplying other people with medical needs as well, some of them poor who can't afford a $300. online prescription like myself. Next summer we will be forming a compassion club when the law changes and I will supply some others with lights so they can grow too. I don't charge anything for medical users, I pay the expenses of growing.

    When the new law comes into effect, you will be able to give up to 30 grams away at a time, or an ounce, Christmas is coming so that should cover a few for me! This is also an experimental garden to see how much one could harvest a year under the new recreational law, when my prescription lapses under the new law I won't bother to renew. I also take the summer off from growing and like to make kief with dry ice, etc.
    ttystikk likes this.

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    Gen 3 Grow Light Water Cooling Tube Construction
    I started work on the 1" square tubing test lamp by filing the burrs off the end cuts, sanding, scouring with steel wool and pushing a paper towel through the tube to clean the inside. I bought some acetone at the hardware store and used it to clean the tube ends and brass fittings.

    The 7/8" pipe thread on the 1/2" brass PEX adapter ($2 CDN) bites into the tubing very well and can turn in about half it's length easily
    20171028_164803 (2).jpg

    I masked off the end of the tubing with painters tape and filled the inside corners with silicone caulk and slathered it on the fitting threads. The fitting screwed into the tube about half way and had a good bite on the aluminum tube, I didn't want to distort the tubing by screwing the tapered pipe thread in any further. When the silicone cures I'll hydrostatically pressure test the tube to 30 or 40 PSI to make sure of leak resistance. I could have used JB weld epoxy to seal the tube ends, but silicone is simpler and should work fine for this application. The hydrostatic pressure test will tell the tale!

    The cost of the 4 ft x 1" square cooling tube and 2 x brass PEX adapter fittings is less than $10, plus a dab or two of marine grade silicone caulking to fill in the corners and seal the threads.
    ttystikk likes this.

    DIY-HP-LED Well-Known Member

    $2 Citizen COBs!
    Anybody deal with these guys before? The price seems very good ($2 US) for a 155 watt Citizen COB with a minimum purchase of 4 pcs. I was thinking of throwing $100US plus shipping and getting 50 COBs! Are these for real or perhaps counterfeit?

    Sent them an email for a price on 50 pieces.

    Got a reply back from the email:

    50pcs of CLU048 1216, 3000K / 3500K 90CRI is available in stock, unit price: $13.15usd/pcs;

    Shipping cost: $35usd by DHL
    Paypal Charge 3.8%.

    Not such a great deal after all!
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2017

    CanadianDank Well-Known Member

    The best deals for Canadians getting into led are the bridgelux strips, they don't require heatsinks.

    Although your cob lights are cool, they get pricey for us.

    Also heard they create hot spots.

    DIY-HP-LED likes this.

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